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I notice that the elderly seem to go out of their way to make simple tasks more difficult for themselves. I mean, I see certain deliberate actions, to make a task more complicated or more physically painful.
I already know there isn't anything a caregiver can do to change this kind of behavior. But I can't help wondering about the mindset that causes this.
Examples: Carrying several heavy plastic grocery bags, rather than using the grocery cart, to bring the bags to the car.
Leaning over, while standing up, to rummage in a purse that is sitting on the floor, rather than picking the purse up and looking through it while standing upright.
Picking up a walker and carrying it over a mess of scattered papers on the floor, rather than going around the papers (and using the walker as it is supposed to be used)
If a person is in the early stages of dementia he or she might do things differently that they might have a few years ago. Reasoning ability can become impaired. If there are scattered papers on someone's floor, I'd wonder about dementia. (Not saying it is a definitive symptom. But disorganization is one of the symptoms.)
Your first statement, I notice that the elderly seem. . . . makes me think that you regard older people as "the other" or someone strange or unlike yourself. Perhaps that is why some took umbrage with your post. I want to respectfully suggest that stereotyping an enormous number of people based on age, or being "the elderly", based on the actions of 3 people, is not useful. It would be just as easy to find three of "the elderly" who do tasks in an expected way.
My examples were taken from three different elderly ladies. Is it a generation thing? No that's not right because each, while elderly, could not be said to be of the same generations. (76, 83, 93).
So I wonder, when I observe these behaviors. Offering suggestions on ways to do it differently to make it easier, no matter in what manner the suggestions are made, are met with hostility.
A need to remain independent, I understand, but this...deliberately doing something in a way that is obviously dangerous or likely to cause pain....I don't get it. Is it an effort to make a point? "I am strong and able and can do it the hard way, regardless of what you think"?
Well, perhaps it might look akward to you, but they might be doing what is really the best approach for them.
I have RA--rheumatoid arthritis--have had it since my early 20's. Certain things became difficult, and I learned ways around it. But seemed some people wanted to intervene, no matter what. for example, getting in and out of a chair. Certain relatives would literally insist I sit in the "nice, soft chair" and wouldn't take no for an answer, although I preferred a hard, straight-back chair because I could get up and down without half a dozen people crawling all over me to "help". Seemed I simply couldn't go to some relatives homes, because I was literally forced to "sit in the nice, soft chair". Even if I did manage to park it in the chair of my choice, about every 5 min someone would ask "wouldn't you rather sit here, in the nice, soft chair?" WTH can you do, either please them, and be uncomfortable, or tell them to stop, enough already, then, you're being hostile. You can't win, either way.
Or, I really preferred to use the regular, not the handicapped stalls in rest rooms. Why? Well, it suited me better....but "friends", etc, would act like I wasn't aware of the handicapped stall, then make an issue, oh, here you go, this is better for you! I really don't appreciate discussing how I go potty in a public restroom, sometimes with strangers. Again, you can't say no thanks, without provoking an arguement, then, of course, you're "hostile" Perhaps you need meds and counseling No, perhaps it would be nice if others stopped with the "suggestions".
Look, the expression MYOB really applies even with the elderly/disabled. If you really feel you must intervene, ask if you can do anything to help, don't attack a person with your idea of how its supposed to be done. Its not a matter of maintaining independence, etc, its a matter of getting you of of my face! Last, I've found many people like to overplay how much help a disabled person really needs, so they can complain later. Oh, whenever Mary comes over, we have to help her around so much, its so bothersome for us. Then, they proceed to prove their point. Actually, they are the ones "bothersome" to me. Being disabled doesn't mean one has lost their wits!
Wanting to sit in a hard chair because it's easier to get up makes sense to me, so why don't you just tell people why it's easier for you to sit in a hard chair.
I really appreciate all the points of view and insights. Very helpful.
I don't appreciate the assumptions that I am in any way being contemptuous or disrespectful or attacking or bullying anyone I may have in my life with these challenges. I am not any of those things, with anyone.
But the comments actually on topic are very enlightening, thanks.
There was no judgmental tone. I was asking a question, looking for opinions, thoughts, experiences. I have many years experience with the elderly, 'old ladies' have always seemed to love me, though of course now that my own parent is facing these challenges, it's a bit different for me, than working with other people's elderly parents.
Perhaps you can take your own advice about "judgmental tones", especially on topics such as this, where people are struggling to do what's right. People come here for help and support.
While you gave a useful viewpoint, your "tone" toward me is not helpful or supportive.
My " tone" was set by your communication that, " the elderly seem to go out of their way to make simple tasks more difficult for themselves," implying your feeling of seperateness and your difficulty with empathizing. My opinion was voiced only as an experienced perspective from my many years of caregiving to help you hear yourself in your references to "them". Someday, sooner than most expect, that "them" is us, ourselves. There have been many good point made in this thread, as seen from the other side. Perhaps more in depth conversation with the people you observe can help.
Last edited by tcrackly; 04-01-2013 at 07:22 AM..
Reason: grammatical
I notice that the elderly seem to go out of their way to make simple tasks more difficult for themselves. I mean, I see certain deliberate actions, to make a task more complicated or more physically painful. ...
It might look more "painful" to you, but ...
Quote:
I already know there isn't anything a caregiver can do to change this kind of behavior. But I can't help wondering about the mindset that causes this.
Examples: Carrying several heavy plastic grocery bags, rather than using the grocery cart, to bring the bags to the car.
Is carrying several bags any less hassle than having to deal with that d*mn cart trying to roll away into other cars while I'm trying to transfer my loaded shopping bags over? You might think so. I don't.
Quote:
Leaning over, while standing up, to rummage in a purse that is sitting on the floor, rather than picking the purse up and looking through it while standing upright.
Darn thing is heavy! And if I'm standing upright holding it with one hand, then I only have one hand left to rummage through it. I prefer to leave it on the floor, thanks.
Quote:
Picking up a walker and carrying it over a mess of scattered papers on the floor, rather than going around the papers (and using the walker as it is supposed to be used)
You try steering one of these things ... it's far easier just to pick it up!
Wanting to sit in a hard chair because it's easier to get up makes sense to me, so why don't you just tell people why it's easier for you to sit in a hard chair.
I really appreciate all the points of view and insights. Very helpful.
I don't appreciate the assumptions that I am in any way being contemptuous or disrespectful or attacking or bullying anyone I may have in my life with these challenges. I am not any of those things, with anyone.
But the comments actually on topic are very enlightening, thanks.
/
Well, I do try, but these "helpers" simply won't listen. They have it all figured, and anything I would say would be discounted.
See, its that attitude which is so upsetting and annoying. Offering help, once, is, at times, ok, but pleez....back off when told NO instead of arguing. It is a form of bullying when someone won't let go of the issue. Then, when the person is frustrated to the point of responding with hostility, well, then, there's something wrong with them. The standard answer give is 'well, I'm just trying to be nice. Then you have to argue with that
Oh, another misconception---coworkers thought I was deliberately parking far away to make an issue. No, I worked a split shift, and when I came in, the only spaces available were about a block away. When we came out at night, well, there were plenty of spaces near the door, and there I was, way out in the outback. why does she park so far away when there's plenty of spaces available? Guess she likes making things hard on herself..... But, no one ever offered me a ride to my car, which I would have appreciated, that would have been nice. But the same coworkers would literally crap themselves to second guess what chair I sat in, what bathroom stall I used, etc.
Believe me, people don't try to make things hard on themselves when given a choice. Maybe you don't think you are being disrespectful, or bullying, but if the other person responds with hostility, ask yourself why. It could be in response to your actions, not because there is something wrong with them. Its not because they have a personality disorder, or didn't take their meds, etc. its because of YOU. Sorry, but that's how I've felt so many times. What makes someone else think they know the best way for me to stand, sit,walk, eat, go potty, etc? What you're really doing is putting them on the spot, calling them out on the problem, causing them embarassment, frustration, on top of trying to deal with an already difficult problem.
I've managed to avoid such people in my life as much as possible. its sad, but I've totally eliminated some relationships because of the "helpful helper". I've tried discussing it with them, and got nowhere. Instead, I was given answers such as oh, we love you, or we're just being nice, etc. I completely stopped seeing an aunt, because of such attitude. Although we remained friends via phone, I just stopped visiting, I found I got so nervous and frustrated with her constant "helping".
Just ask yourself, if you're trying so hard to be nice, then why aren't you listening to the responses it provokes? If you are trying to be nice and get hostility instead, well, perhaps you aren't on the right track?
Is carrying several bags any less hassle than having to deal with that d*mn cart trying to roll away into other cars while I'm trying to transfer my loaded shopping bags over? You might think so. I don't.
Darn thing is heavy! And if I'm standing upright holding it with one hand, then I only have one hand left to rummage through it. I prefer to leave it on the floor, thanks.
You try steering one of these things ... it's far easier just to pick it up!
Or, ever have someone "help" you with your purse, then complain how heavy it is? Oh, my, this is soooo heavy, why do you have such a heavy purse? Like you have to explain everything.....
Wanting to sit in a hard chair because it's easier to get up makes sense to me, so why don't you just tell people why it's easier for you to sit in a hard chair.
I really appreciate all the points of view and insights. Very helpful.
I don't appreciate the assumptions that I am in any way being contemptuous or disrespectful or attacking or bullying anyone I may have in my life with these challenges. I am not any of those things, with anyone.
But the comments actually on topic are very enlightening, thanks.
My mother will often do things that result in physical pain when an alternative (usually me) exists. For example, she can be saying she has terrible back pain and grabbing at her back, but will bend down to put away a pan instead of asking me to do it when I'll less than a foot away. When her neck was operated on, she was insisting on scrubbing the kitchen floor within twenty-four hours.
With her, she seems to have a fear of admitting that her life and body have changed. So she will go out of her way to 'prove' she can still do the things she used. Which is understandable, but it has also been decades since she could comfortably do such things, and frankly her reasoning for her behavior has become frustrating.
I have noticed that as I get older, some things I have done all my life are no longer possible. Usually, I learn this by experience, sometimes repeated experience. LOL The habits of a lifetime are hard to break.
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No, perhaps it would be nice if others stopped with the "suggestions".
