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My exact comment to the OP was that they were "...growing bitter, which is understandable if you are over-tired and overwhelmed with all you are doing for Dad.
Let's not get off topic again though.
Yeah, I agree that you could lighten up a little. You make me say "ouch"... and feel frustrated myself. You sound a little like some of my friends who live their lives without caregiving responsibilities, who are trying to "help" by telling me how to fix things. Oh, if only it was so easy... a therapist is all you need. And I'm sure you know that "growing bitter" has a negative/critical connotation to it. I feel like you aren't able to empathize very well with this situation. But that's ok - I know now very few people can.
So I think you are missing the boat a little by suggesting a therapist, although my caregivers support group does help quite a bit. A therapist doesn't really help our situations. We need help at home from our siblings and other family members..... and we need social workers, care managers, physical therapists, geriatric psychiatrists, doctors, nurses, safer houses, stimulants to help us after sleepless nights taking care of a loved one (coffee....).... while a therapist teaching us to relax, be mindful, don't forget your SSRI.... actually can't help that much. We need real, tangible, daily, reliable ... help.
A caregivers support group can help because they can share their experiences from the front lines (like many on this thread), explain what worked in their family, provide a safe venting space and emotional support, and laugh and cry along with you. I honestly have found that only other caregivers who have shared similar circumstances truly understand.
So to the OP... maybe he has gotten frustrated on this thread, but I don't blame him much. I've been there. I am hoping there is a caregivers support group near him, as I think he will best get answers to his question amongst those folks.
Last edited by sfcambridge; 05-15-2013 at 05:59 PM..
Loves, I believe the Medicaid "look back" rule would mean if the parent depleted all assets to the level that Medicaid would consider them eligible for nursing home assistance, any "gift" of any size whatsoever within the preceding 60 months would be used in an "ineligibility" equation that is as follows. Whatever the average price of nursing home assistance would be at the time of the Medicaid application is divided into the total amount of money transferred or gifted to ANYONE else, including money recognized on IRS docs as "gifts."
For example, if within the 60 months prior to the parent's pay down to the level of whatever is required for Medicaid eligibility in the parent's state - they had made gifts totaling $75,000 and the average monthly cost of a nursing home in their state is $5000 . . . $75,000 divided by $5000 = 15 months of ineligibility. So that means the parent would be ineligible to receive Medicaid assistance for 15 months.
If the parent has to go into a nursing home facility, there would be no medicaid assistance with the bills for 15 months.
Unless the law has been changed recently, that is how it works. I am not an attorney but I am a (non-practicing) licensed nursing home administrator so I feel qualified to answer this question.
Good information! But I still think since there are assets involved, that a trip to an elder attorney is in order to help the OP sort all of this out.
Good information! But I still think since there are assets involved, that a trip to an elder attorney is in order to help the OP sort all of this out.
Absolutely agree! What I tried to explain was an overly simplistic example to just emphasize that the "look back" in very involved. I, myself, have consulted a tax attorney, medical social worker, geriatric social worker, etc in re: to both my own future, my hubby's and my parents. And laws and regs change all the time! Big changes coming after Jan. 2014 for nursing homes.
The whole Medicaid qualification process (for nursing home care) is like walking the razor's edge, trying to determine what is going to be available and for how long, b/f we (or our parents) will need nursing home care (assuming our situation is such that we will).
But the really devastating situations are the ones where something totally unforeseen happens, and the senior's life is turned upside down in a matter of moments, such as some of our members have posted has happened in their families. A sudden, totally unanticipated and debiliating stroke; a terrible accident that leaves our loved one in a delicate or medically challenging physical state, and one from which there can never really be a full recovery; or a diagnosis that means a downward spiral in health and/or one's ability to function independently.
There is really no way to prepare for those situations. A person might have LTC insurance (but that is not common) . . . a person may have assets that will afford them a way to pay for top notch nursing home care til they would pass whatever ineligibility period is imposed b/f they can qualify for a nursing home bed . . .or a family member may step in.
Then there are the situations where the anticipation is that there will be declining health for maybe 18 months and after that, most likely, the family member will be ready to move to nursing home care. But that 18 months turns into 36 . . . then 48 months . . . leaving the family member who is caring for him/her in a really tough situation with their own finances, and possibly their health, as well.
I can understand why folks are torn how to handle all this. There really is no easy answer as each situation is unique to that individual and the family involved.
I guess the most helpful thing is to figure out what alternatives there are when faced with the situation. The problem with that is -- getting consensus from all involved.
Absolutely agree! What I tried to explain was an overly simplistic example to just emphasize that the "look back" in very involved. I, myself, have consulted a tax attorney, medical social worker, geriatric social worker, etc in re: to both my own future, my hubby's and my parents. And laws and regs change all the time! Big changes coming after Jan. 2014 for nursing homes.
The whole Medicaid qualification process (for nursing home care) is like walking the razor's edge, trying to determine what is going to be available and for how long, b/f we (or our parents) will need nursing home care (assuming our situation is such that we will).
But the really devastating situations are the ones where something totally unforeseen happens, and the senior's life is turned upside down in a matter of moments, such as some of our members have posted has happened in their families. A sudden, totally unanticipated and debiliating stroke; a terrible accident that leaves our loved one in a delicate or medically challenging physical state, and one from which there can never really be a full recovery; or a diagnosis that means a downward spiral in health and/or one's ability to function independently.
There is really no way to prepare for those situations. A person might have LTC insurance (but that is not common) . . . a person may have assets that will afford them a way to pay for top notch nursing home care til they would pass whatever ineligibility period is imposed b/f they can qualify for a nursing home bed . . .or a family member may step in.
Then there are the situations where the anticipation is that there will be declining health for maybe 18 months and after that, most likely, the family member will be ready to move to nursing home care. But that 18 months turns into 36 . . . then 48 months . . . leaving the family member who is caring for him/her in a really tough situation with their own finances, and possibly their health, as well.
I can understand why folks are torn how to handle all this. There really is no easy answer as each situation is unique to that individual and the family involved.
I guess the most helpful thing is to figure out what alternatives there are when faced with the situation. The problem with that is -- getting consensus from all involved.
Going through this with my mom was a true learning experience. I don't think we can anticipate every problem, as you state.
What I've noticed is that adult children don't want to force the parents to change. It is too hard, and it becomes a maintenance problem for the adult children. But eventually a crisis happens, and they are forced to make decisions quickly. But we all have to face end of life changes if we live long enough, unless we die suddenly. I hope I have the grace to face this properly, if I live long enough.
Going through this with my mom was a true learning experience. I don't think we can anticipate every problem, as you state.
What I've noticed is that adult children don't want to force the parents to change. It is too hard, and it becomes a maintenance problem for the adult children. But eventually a crisis happens, and they are forced to make decisions quickly. But we all have to face end of life changes if we live long enough, unless we die suddenly. I hope I have the grace to face this properly, if I live long enough.
Try being the sibling who wants to make these common sense changes and having one who doesn't. Then when crisis occurs they shove it all on you and act like they never saw it coming. What, a 90 year old with dementia is going to be just fine? Sure, sista, sure.
As to the OP's question, the caregiver should be paid while doing their duties, and anything left in the estate to be split equally.
This whole thread has offered incredible information, insight and hard facts about care giving and end of life situations. I think the most valuable lessons are
1) living a real situation is so much more than what one thinks they would do. When the time comes your thinking will probably be very different.
2) no one should ever criticize another person on how that person feels. There is no right or wrong emotion. Some of us handle things better than others but that does not mean the other person is wrong to feel the way they do.
3)Each situation is unique and there is not only one way to do tings. So what was good for your next door neighbor may not be good for your family.
4) It is incumbent upon each person to face the fact that we will age and die. We will do ourselves and our family a great dis service by living in denial and refusing to address the issues of wills, medicaid, nursing homes, DNR's, hospice care, caregiver pay, burial or cremation, etc. with our families. To refuse to bring it up with our families or our elders means critical decisions will have to be made in a moment of great anguish and agitation by everybody. And making important decisions at times of great stress and anxiety means poor decisions will be made.
My siblings are already making comments, "don't expect to get more because you are offering to be so available, we have lives" !
It's sickening. And, when someone dies, be prepared - money is the root to all evil.
Ugh! That's just their guilt talking. Whatever happens you'll know you did what had to do. When my grandmother died she split the money evenly between my mom and her brother, but she left my mom the house. My mother lived 30mins. away, worked fulltime, and spent every free moment she had taking care of her mother and her household. When mom's brother found out he was pissed for a minute, and then he said to my mom "you deserve it, I'm on the west coast and even if I wasn't, I couldn't have done what you did". That's how love is supposed to work. I hope your family will come to the same conclusion.
This whole thread has offered incredible information, insight and hard facts about care giving and end of life situations. I think the most valuable lessons are
1) living a real situation is so much more than what one thinks they would do. When the time comes your thinking will probably be very different.
2) no one should ever criticize another person on how that person feels. There is no right or wrong emotion. Some of us handle things better than others but that does not mean the other person is wrong to feel the way they do.
3)Each situation is unique and there is not only one way to do tings. So what was good for your next door neighbor may not be good for your family.
4) It is incumbent upon each person to face the fact that we will age and die. We will do ourselves and our family a great dis service by living in denial and refusing to address the issues of wills, medicaid, nursing homes, DNR's, hospice care, caregiver pay, burial or cremation, etc. with our families. To refuse to bring it up with our families or our elders means critical decisions will have to be made in a moment of great anguish and agitation by everybody. And making important decisions at times of great stress and anxiety means poor decisions will be made.
Absolutely true. Most of the women my age that I know are busy arranging for some type of long term care insurance - we DO NOT want our kids taking care of us.
And on the concept of 'fairness' ~ isn't it funny that it only comes up when money is involved? You don't hear the family saying 'Oh, it's not fair that XXX gets to do all the caregiving"!
Ugh! That's just their guilt talking. Whatever happens you'll know you did what had to do. When my grandmother died she split the money evenly between my mom and her brother, but she left my mom the house. My mother lived 30mins. away, worked fulltime, and spent every free moment she had taking care of her mother and her household. When mom's brother found out he was pissed for a minute, and then he said to my mom "you deserve it, I'm on the west coast and even if I wasn't, I couldn't have done what you did". That's how love is supposed to work. I hope your family will come to the same conclusion.
It's so great to hear about a healthy family for a change. Your uncle was very decent and nice.
Absolutely true. Most of the women my age that I know are busy arranging for some type of long term care insurance - we DO NOT want our kids taking care of us.
And on the concept of 'fairness' ~ isn't it funny that it only comes up when money is involved? You don't hear the family saying 'Oh, it's not fair that XXX gets to do all the caregiving"!
HEE HEE HEE. That sums it up!!!! Perfect, Ringo!
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(coffee....).... while a therapist teaching us to relax, be mindful, don't forget your SSRI.... actually can't help that much. We need real, tangible, daily, reliable ... help. 
