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Old 07-07-2013, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Muskogee OK USA
4,260 posts, read 2,016,940 times
Reputation: 5818
Default Heart attack at age 96.

After a few hours of medium type chest pains my mother's primary physician put her in the hospital, then, in the middle of that night she had a heart attack. The next day, the heart specialist told me she could pass away at any moment, but, she didn't and was so very frightened about going to an assisted living center when time to leave the hospital. Nothing could convince her it wasn't a nursing home. After a few days she agreed it was much nicer than a nursing home. She lived there 16 months as a high-level resident. Fortunately, she had her wits to the last and dies in her sleep after a nice supper, exactly the way she hoped it would happen. What I am writing about is her living will and her order NOT to be resuscitated. There are quite a few spaces requiring a signature and it's a struggle to spend scarce energy signing forms. Every 6 months, the supervisor came in for mother to fill out a new one in case she'd changed her mind. This happened every six months. We both thought it very strange. I think it was the third one... she pushed it toward me, saying, "Here, you write it like I do and sign all those places." She had a severe tremor which made it even more difficult to write. Do most such facilities require individual wishes to be verified so often?

My son-in-law asked her if she was happy there and she thought for a moment before disagreeing with the word happy, but, saying she was content. Mostly, she didn't want me to have to wait on her. I'm not well, and there were many things she could do by herself where she was that she would not be able to do at home.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:24 PM
 
619 posts, read 460,735 times
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It's bizarre that the facility "needed" so many written verifications of her wishes, but I don't know if that's a common occurrence.

It burns me that the Powers that Be can't stand the idea of any expensive medical machinery going unused. Enough is enough.
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:26 PM
 
5,867 posts, read 3,822,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi3 View Post
After a few hours of medium type chest pains my mother's primary physician put her in the hospital, then, in the middle of that night she had a heart attack. The next day, the heart specialist told me she could pass away at any moment, but, she didn't and was so very frightened about going to an assisted living center when time to leave the hospital. Nothing could convince her it wasn't a nursing home. After a few days she agreed it was much nicer than a nursing home. She lived there 16 months as a high-level resident. Fortunately, she had her wits to the last and dies in her sleep after a nice supper, exactly the way she hoped it would happen. What I am writing about is her living will and her order NOT to be resuscitated. There are quite a few spaces requiring a signature and it's a struggle to spend scarce energy signing forms. Every 6 months, the supervisor came in for mother to fill out a new one in case she'd changed her mind. This happened every six months. We both thought it very strange. I think it was the third one... she pushed it toward me, saying, "Here, you write it like I do and sign all those places." She had a severe tremor which made it even more difficult to write. Do most such facilities require individual wishes to be verified so often?

My son-in-law asked her if she was happy there and she thought for a moment before disagreeing with the word happy, but, saying she was content. Mostly, she didn't want me to have to wait on her. I'm not well, and there were many things she could do by herself where she was that she would not be able to do at home.
I don't think the facility I work in verfies that often. My mother has been in an ALF for a year and a half and she has never been asked to sign a new one. All I can guess is, maybe that particular facility had some kind of legal issue having to do with going by an old DNR order, so they changed their policy. It is not unusual in my experience for a facility to go overboard in the other direction after something like that happens.

I am sorry about your Mom. I am glad she went like she did, though. My own grandmother died during a nap after returning from the facility's monthly birthday party. To me that is a great way to go, stuffed with ice cream and cake and sleeping peacefully. I hope we will all be that lucky.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:39 PM
 
1,361 posts, read 668,986 times
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Every time my late Mom went from the nursing home to the hospital we had to fill out new DNR forms at the hospital (always the same hospital.)

Upon her return a few days later to the nursing home we again had to fill out new DNR forms (same nursing home.)

I never could get an explanation as to why it had to done over & over again.
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Old 07-08-2013, 03:53 AM
 
6,909 posts, read 15,451,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daliowa View Post
Every time my late Mom went from the nursing home to the hospital we had to fill out new DNR forms at the hospital (always the same hospital.)

Upon her return a few days later to the nursing home we again had to fill out new DNR forms (same nursing home.)

I never could get an explanation as to why it had to done over & over again.
Because they don't have a good record keeping system. It's easier to get a new one signed than it is to find the older one.

Also, there is a chance that the patient has had a change of mind about dying and wants to live as long as possible now. This happens more often than you might think! And there is always a relative around that will sue because the NH or hospital didn't do everything possible to keep the patient alive.
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Old 07-08-2013, 03:59 AM
 
5,867 posts, read 3,822,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daliowa View Post
Every time my late Mom went from the nursing home to the hospital we had to fill out new DNR forms at the hospital (always the same hospital.)

Upon her return a few days later to the nursing home we again had to fill out new DNR forms (same nursing home.)

I never could get an explanation as to why it had to done over & over again.
The reason is because she was considered a re-admission each time she went back to the facility. Every time you're admitted somewhere, there has to be a new one signed even if there was one before.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:17 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,584 posts, read 4,237,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenstyle View Post
It's bizarre that the facility "needed" so many written verifications of her wishes, but I don't know if that's a common occurrence.

It burns me that the Powers that Be can't stand the idea of any expensive medical machinery going unused. Enough is enough.
It does not matter if you are 105 years old. If you are with it and aware...it only makes sense that they do continued to verify what a persons wishes are...It's not about using expensive machinery...it is the civilized thing to do. The person might want to die at a certain point - and some people avoid death with all their might and if they can be brought back after an incident - they still look at any form of life as better than the alternative. It is a real blessing to have a family member pushing 100 who still communicates.

A person no matter how old has a right to a change of mind and heart - whether it is to refuse what appears to be extreme treatment or to accept it. It seems that who ever put the policy together had respect for the living and the dying. Medical professionals in the end seem to make the final decisions anyway. They usually know when enough is enough...and that conclusion should only be reached through the person concerned and their doctors. In my experience when family members or others make a decision it is usually for their own convenience.


I remember recently when the asked or suggested or almost insisted that my mother in law stop treatment...The old woman looked up and said..."So you want me to commit suicide?" She did not want to die...She had no kidney function...she was diabetic and her feet were literally rotting off...My wife made the decision because she could not stand looking at the mutilation of her extremities - Everyone insisted that she could NOT survive an amputation - BUT no one really knows if she would survive surgery or not...It took her 10 days to die...Her sister was very angry and insisted that my wife had killed her sister...but it was my wife who had taken care of her mother for the last few years...and she was burned out.



In the case I just mentioned - If it were my mother or even my old dog...as long as the will existed to live - I would be totally supportive - to the bitter end.
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:03 AM
 
Location: Muskogee OK USA
4,260 posts, read 2,016,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
It does not matter if you are 105 years old. If you are with it and aware...it only makes sense that they do continued to verify what a persons wishes are...It's not about using expensive machinery...it is the civilized thing to do. The person might want to die at a certain point - and some people avoid death with all their might and if they can be brought back after an incident - they still look at any form of life as better than the alternative. It is a real blessing to have a family member pushing 100 who still communicates.

A person no matter how old has a right to a change of mind and heart - whether it is to refuse what appears to be extreme treatment or to accept it. It seems that who ever put the policy together had respect for the living and the dying. Medical professionals in the end seem to make the final decisions anyway. They usually know when enough is enough...and that conclusion should only be reached through the person concerned and their doctors. In my experience when family members or others make a decision it is usually for their own convenience.


I remember recently when the asked or suggested or almost insisted that my mother in law stop treatment...The old woman looked up and said..."So you want me to commit suicide?" She did not want to die...She had no kidney function...she was diabetic and her feet were literally rotting off...My wife made the decision because she could not stand looking at the mutilation of her extremities - Everyone insisted that she could NOT survive an amputation - BUT no one really knows if she would survive surgery or not...It took her 10 days to die...Her sister was very angry and insisted that my wife had killed her sister...but it was my wife who had taken care of her mother for the last few years...and she was burned out.



In the case I just mentioned - If it were my mother or even my old dog...as long as the will existed to live - I would be totally supportive - to the bitter end.
Once again Oleg Bach, you don't know what you're talking about, yet you posted a lengthy response to Zenstyle who was responding to MY post about MY mother who had NO desire to be resuscitated, nor anything else she'd said she didn't want to do. She had NOT changed her mind about anything and she had NOT been anywhere away from the ALC. No one even hinted she might want to change her mind and no one challenged her right to do so if she wanted to change her mind. But, here you are, thinking you have to explain none of that is true. As it happens, I think Zenstyle is exactly correct; whereas YOU aren't. You have the right to think it and the right to say it, but, when you don't read what others said, your opinion is worthless. There are some of your posts which are reasonable, but, this one ISN'T. No one claimed my mother did not have the right to change her mind, but, you see, she had the right, but, did not want to change her mind... did NOT want to change her mind... can you possibly understand that?
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:53 AM
 
619 posts, read 460,735 times
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Thanks, Rubi3.
Sheesh, what a screed!

This finite planet cannot hold every centenarian who wants to cling to "dear" life by their fingernails. We will all pay (and are now paying) the price for such sentimentality.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:50 PM
 
1,361 posts, read 668,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
The reason is because she was considered a re-admission each time she went back to the facility. Every time you're admitted somewhere, there has to be a new one signed even if there was one before.
That makes sense. Just wonder why the nursing home was never able to explain it.
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