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Not at all, petch. I wasn't the one who threw down the gauntlet. My FIL only asked for me because of my medical background and because he knew that I loved him.
I'd like to believe we're all doing the best we can for our parents - and each other. Sure sounds like most people here do, and I've no reason to think that you don't too.
Shalom,
Mahrie.
Well, that's some tricky wordsmithing right there. "I'd LIKE to believe"....
But you really DON'T believe it, right? Because you said "I couldn't agree more" when the other member said :
Quote:
There was once a time in our society that taking care of the old folks was just a part of being a family, to me it is a sad state of affairs where we consider taking care of those who took care of us as being a burden. But I guess I'm just old fashioned.
So you DO in fact, believe people are not "doing their best". In fact, most of society it seems.
The REALITY is, the people needing CARE are the ones who did NOT "do their best" during their younger years to plan for the inevitable. Knowing society was changing and the days of having a bunch of kids to work the farm yada yada was so 1800's....
You can never "blame the kids". They could have pre-deceased you and then what? Who to blame then?
The USA has turned into a giant hedonistic spend, spend, spend world of unicorns and fairy tales since around the 1960's. The birds have come home to roost. After all the depression era people got mocked for being FRUGAL.
At this very moment in my FL town our GENEROUS charitable groups continue to do so much obsessive "charity" for children. IT's like the new FAD. Meanwhile, I guarantee you they themselves have NO adequate plan for their final years and in fact, should be doing the charities for SENIORS, not other people's kids that were OPTIONAL.
I think the one big difference between here in the states and in other countries (where people think nothing of caring for their aged parents), is that practically all homes here are two-paycheck earners, so people are not available throughout the day to provide care. I, personally, can think of only one woman younger than 65 (retirement) who does not work. Many of us in a certain age bracket are working towards that magical number because we HAVE to (for the insurance in many cases), and we come home tired. It's not the best scenario for caring for an aged parents with needs. And I don't know what the answer is.
For myself, who knows? My only child has passed away and there won't be anyone else to step in and help with decisions. I stand a good possibility of getting Alzheimer's like my mother did, and that is a very scary thought, but one that I will have to address before I start noticing signs.
At 68, I'm a caregiver for my DH, who is disabled and ill. Nobody else around to help. It's hard, but I wasn't a caregiver for either of my parents before they passed away, so guess it's just my turn. We have SS and his fairly good VA benefits to live on now, which helps. My only child plans to get a very good long term care policy for me. I feel like that with my medical care already provided, that will cover most of the possible outcomes, so hopefully won't be a burden on anyone.
Originally Posted by Mahrie.
Not at all, petch. I wasn't the one who threw down the gauntlet. My FIL only asked for me because of my medical background and because he knew that I loved him.
I'd like to believe we're all doing the best we can for our parents - and each other. Sure sounds like most people here do, and I've no reason to think that you don't too.
Shalom,
Mahrie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors
Well, that's some tricky wordsmithing right there. "I'd LIKE to believe"....
But you really DON'T believe it, right? Because you said "I couldn't agree more" when the other member said :
Quote:
There was once a time in our society that taking care of the old folks was just a part of being a family, to me it is a sad state of affairs where we consider taking care of those who took care of us as being a burden. But I guess I'm just old fashioned.
So you DO in fact, believe people are not "doing their best". In fact, most of society it seems.
The REALITY is, the people needing CARE are the ones who did NOT "do their best" during their younger years to plan for the inevitable. Knowing society was changing and the days of having a bunch of kids to work the farm yada yada was so 1800's....
You can never "blame the kids". They could have pre-deceased you and then what? Who to blame then?
The USA has turned into a giant hedonistic spend, spend, spend world of unicorns and fairy tales since around the 1960's. The birds have come home to roost. After all the depression era people got mocked for being FRUGAL.
At this very moment in my FL town our GENEROUS charitable groups continue to do so much obsessive "charity" for children. IT's like the new FAD. Meanwhile, I guarantee you they themselves have NO adequate plan for their final years and in fact, should be doing the charities for SENIORS, not other people's kids that were OPTIONAL.
Runswithscissors: What I believe is that most people in North America don't value multigenerational families as they once did, not so long ago. In truth, most don't value family anymore, period. Just look at the recent laws that have been passed regarding both marriage and abortion.
With regard to my own 'I'd like to believe' comment, I was referring to the members participating in this thread. It's evident that the majority of people here do care about (and for) their parents and children. Perhaps I should have made that clearer. Sorry.
By the way, one doesn't have to 'plan' one's death; it happens to us all without exception. The debate here is about what one expects in the way of care prior to one's departure. If one expects little to no outside help then one need not bother saving up to die.
OP, thank you for providing opportunity for even more introspection about a subject we (as a retired couple in our early 60's) have been discussing for a while. We pulled out our list of "To Do's" for planning, scratched a few off and added a few from some of the thoughtful opinions here. This list is important to us and may have no value to others, but we will share since you asked.
1. Plan early--do not wait (Steven Covey has one Habit called "Begin with the end in mind.")
2. Declutter--it makes living and growing old easier for us, we think.
3. Downsize early--having less will allow us freedom for activities that we enjoy rather than being locked into maintenance that will grow more difficult as we age.
4. Research, research, research each step of the way.
5. Offer objects of value while we can hand them to loved ones, but give them away with no strings attached.
6. Seek independence from family and be willing to pay for services.
7. Enjoy life as much as possible for as long as possible.
8. Keep our financial info private but readily available for our children, just in case.
9. Be fair to our children and grandchildren.
Currently we are caregivers to an elderly parent who did not do these things, relies heavily on us, yet demands that most things be done her way. We continue to try to be kind, and certainly hope to learn from this experience.
Thank you again for the chance to view it from others' perspectives.
OP, thank you for providing opportunity for even more introspection about a subject we (as a retired couple in our early 60's) have been discussing for a while. We pulled out our list of "To Do's" for planning, scratched a few off and added a few from some of the thoughtful opinions here. This list is important to us and may have no value to others, but we will share since you asked.
1. Plan early--do not wait (Steven Covey has one Habit called "Begin with the end in mind.")
2. Declutter--it makes living and growing old easier for us, we think.
3. Downsize early--having less will allow us freedom for activities that we enjoy rather than being locked into maintenance that will grow more difficult as we age.
4. Research, research, research each step of the way.
5. Offer objects of value while we can hand them to loved ones, but give them away with no strings attached.
6. Seek independence from family and be willing to pay for services.
7. Enjoy life as much as possible for as long as possible.
8. Keep our financial info private but readily available for our children, just in case.
9. Be fair to our children and grandchildren.
Currently we are caregivers to an elderly parent who did not do these things, relies heavily on us, yet demands that most things be done her way. We continue to try to be kind, and certainly hope to learn from this experience.
Thank you again for the chance to view it from others' perspectives.
This post reminds me of the fortune I found in a fortune cookie recently - and it couldn't have been more apropos considering all that's been going on with my elderly in laws this year - "If you do not plan your life, someone else will." I saved that and put it where my drivers license is supposed to go in my wallet so that I see it every time I open my wallet to pay for something!
My inlaws DID sock away money, which is to their credit, so thankfully the financial burden hasn't been one we have had to carry. Of course, we haven't expected to be reimbursed for our own gas, time, and small expenditures (if so, those costs alone would amount to thousands of dollars at this point), and I do realize that in some families, even these additional costs to the kids would be an issue, and I think a legitimate one in some cases.
But even with the money saved, they did basically nothing else. NOTHING else. When their health began to decline rapidly in the last two years, they both said (nearly every time we saw them which was several times a week - now it's nearly daily) - "I can't believe how sick we are." And "I can't believe things have gotten to this point." What - you can't believe you are in your eighties and have health problems? You can't believe you have COPD and heart problems when you've smoked all your life? You can't believe you need to walk with a walker when you've had arthritis for years? You can't believe you have dementia when you've been losing your memory slowly now for several years? You can't believe you're old when you've had over 80 birthdays by now? You can't believe that you aren't able to keep up a large house and three acres of lawn anymore? What exactly is it that you can't believe??????????
I agree with just about everything in your post, except for #8 - and I do agree that it might apply to some situations, just not ours. I agree that not all families have an adult child or two who can be trusted completely - but some families do. Ours is one. A few years ago, when they were in their early 70s, my parents and I had a serious talk about their future and their goals and plans and ideas. They knew they would be counting on me more as the years progress. My mother is already debilitated by a stroke so really, everything depends on my dad's health. So they shared all their info with me. They added me to their bank accounts as a signatory. They took me with them to meet with their estate attorney and their financial advisor. I sat in on numerous visits as they mapped out a plan. So now I know their attorney and their financial advisor comfortably - and most importantly, I know their plan and that plan was put into place with my input, and with not only themselves in mind but me too. And that's very appropriate I think, since my life will be very affected by their needs as they get older. So I know where their money is. I know what their expectations are and they know what mine are (for instance, I know that neither can or wants to live alone after the other dies, and they know that if my mother is left, she will move into an assisted living facility and if my father is left, he will pay for a studio apartment to be built in our back yard and he will live there - and everyone is good with this plan).
Everyone knows what is expected and everyone has agreed to the plan. That's critical.
My parents have also been giving stuff away slowly over the years, to kids and grandkids.
NCLiving- Thanks for this valuable contribution to a thread I started way back when. I like all your ideas and I'm happy that you and your partner are on the same page about planning and looking ahead. I think the biggest mistake for most people is flat out denial - they fail to plan because they don't believe old age and frailty will happen to them. They expect to die on the golf course or in the lap pool, although even in that case, having to dispose of a lifetime's accumulation of belongings with poor or no instructions can itself be a burden to their survivors.
I especially like the "research, research, research" step you outlined. When the research is left to the adult child caregivers, it's an added burden and often reveals, too late, that the parent's planning was inadequate to support the parents' preferences in old age. Typically, for instance, elderly parents have not considered assisted living, have not looked into any facilities, and have no idea what they cost. Then, when it comes time to need assisted living, the caregivers discover that the parent's income and assets are simply not sufficient to allow the parent to be placed in a decent facility like everyone would want.
So I thank you not only for adding to this thread but for subtracting greatly from the burdens that may be placed on your family members as you age.
This post reminds me of the fortune I found in a fortune cookie recently - and it couldn't have been more apropos considering all that's been going on with my elderly in laws this year - "If you do not plan your life, someone else will." I saved that and put it where my drivers license is supposed to go in my wallet so that I see it every time I open my wallet to pay for something!
Kathryn, I'm more of this school of thought: "If you want to make God laugh, just tell him your plans."
"It does not belong to earthling man to direct even his own steps." (Jeremiah 10:23.)
Kathryn, I'm more of this school of thought: "If you want to make God laugh, just tell him your plans."
"It does not belong to earthling man to direct even his own steps." (Jeremiah 10:23.)
Shalom,
Mahrie.
The two don't cancel each other out.
Of course God is in control and has "the last word," but that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't make responsible plans for our financial and physical health needs.
Proverbs 22:3 - "A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished."
Proverbs 22:7 - "The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender."
Luke 14:28 - "For which of you, wanting to build a tower, doesn’t sit down first and compute the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it?"
Proverbs 14:23 - "In all hard work there is profit, but merely talking about it only brings poverty."
2 Thes 3:6-12 - "But we command you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to keep away from any brother who lives an undisciplined life and not according to the tradition they received from us. 7 For you know yourselves how you must imitate us, because we did not behave without discipline among you, 8 and we did not eat anyone’s food without paying. Instead, in toil and drudgery we worked night and day in order not to burden any of you. 9 It was not because we do not have that right, but to give ourselves as an example for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we used to give you this command: “If anyone is not willing to work, neither should he eat.” 11 For we hear that some among you are living an undisciplined life, not doing their own work but meddling in the work of others. 12 Now such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to work quietly and so provide their own food to eat."
Genesis 4:35 - "They should gather all the excess food during these good years that are coming. By Pharaoh’s authority they should store up grain so the cities will have food, and they should preserve it."
Proverbs: "There is desirable treasure and olive oil in the dwelling of the wise, but a foolish person devours all he has. 30:24 There are four things on earth that are small, but they are exceedingly wise: 25 ants are creatures with little strength, but they prepare their food in the summer; 6:6 Go to the ant, you sluggard; observe its ways and be wise! 7 It has no commander, overseer, or ruler, 8 yet it prepares its food in the summer; it gathers at the harvest what it will eat."
2 Cor 12:14 - "Look, for the third time I am ready to come to you, and I will not be a burden to you, because I do not want your possessions, but you. For children should not have to save up for their parents, but parents for their children."
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 09-13-2015 at 07:33 AM..
Of course God is in control and has "the last word," but that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't make responsible plans for our financial and physical health needs.
Proverbs 22:3 - "A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished."
Proverbs 22:7 - "The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender."
Luke 14:28 - "For which of you, wanting to build a tower, doesn’t sit down first and compute the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it?"
Proverbs 14:23 - "In all hard work there is profit, but merely talking about it only brings poverty."
2 Thes 3:6-12 - "But we command you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to keep away from any brother who lives an undisciplined life and not according to the tradition they received from us.
7 For you know yourselves how you must imitate us, because we did not behave without discipline among you,
8 and we did not eat anyone’s food without paying. Instead, in toil and drudgery we worked night and day in order not to burden any of you.
9 It was not because we do not have that right, but to give ourselves as an example for you to imitate.
10 For even when we were with you, we used to give you this command: “If anyone is not willing to work, neither should he eat.”
11 For we hear that some among you are living an undisciplined life, not doing their own work but meddling in the work of others.
12 Now such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to work quietly and so provide their own food to eat."
Genesis 4:35 - "They should gather all the excess food during these good years that are coming. By Pharaoh’s authority they should store up grain so the cities will have food, and they should preserve it."
Proverbs: "There is desirable treasure and olive oil in the dwelling of the wise, but a foolish person devours all he has.
30:24 There are four things on earth that are small, but they are exceedingly wise: 25 ants are creatures with little strength, but they prepare their food in the summer;
6:6 Go to the ant, you sluggard; observe its ways and be wise! 7 It has no commander, overseer, or ruler, 8 yet it prepares its food in the summer; it gathers at the harvest what it will eat."
2 Cor 12:14 - "Look, for the third time I am ready to come to you, and I will not be a burden to you, because I do not want your possessions, but you. For children should not have to save up for their parents, but parents for their children."
Fixed it for you
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