Moving to help parents (child, adult, father, money)

[doghead]

I so appreciate everyone's advice and thoughts. It has been a few days since I posted anything and I can't single out who of you said what specifically but you have really covered so much. My parents do have a few very close friends in FL and a fair number of acquaintances. During my sister's recent visit, I asked them if they would consider moving even halfway back to where my sister lives--N. Carolina--and my father said no, out of the question. He will not ever leave FL--he never wants to come back to this weather. Yes, he is originally from the northeast. My concerns are, I actually tried living in FL for 2 years after they moved down about 13 years ago. It did not work out for a few reasons, one of which was the job situation and I came back. My fear, as is everyone else's, is the job problem. I am in my late 50s and still need and plan to work, probably way beyond the normal retirement age of 65. I am trying and it's hard to find a job long distance. My father has mentioned that if I did find a job, he would buy a very inexpensive condo for me.
I work in the legal field--admin--but could adapt to most office situations. The plan would definitely include aides during the day since I would have to be at work. I would just be visiting evenings and doing errands on the weekends. Although I don't have a lot on the line here in the northeast (owning property, a committed relationship), I do have a great dentist, vets, and I prefer the geography of the northeast and do a lot of hiking. But my parents have been great to me and I think they are great people and actually fun to be around for their age and I enjoy their company. Is this an emergency? Maybe yes. My father is deteriorating slowly and my mother rapidly with dementia/alz but not yet to the point where she needs any help eating, bathroom, etc. I think they are on the cusp of a rapid decline though. Last year, I visited them 5 times (total of about 28 days) and it really gets expensive with pet sitters and airfare although they have helped me somewhat. I have a very close friend who is constantly urging me to make this move and I'm apprehensive for all the reasons we've discussed. My sister and I had them evaluated by a social worker last week and will be trying an aide but they are really resistant because they think they are fine the way they are, although they are not eating well, their place is becoming disorganized and not functional, and my mom is very hard to "handle". But I don't want to destroy my life either. Thanks.

[doghead]

RDFLK--you make great points. You were lucky though that you "only" had to go from DC to Phil. That is not too bad. I really wish I were not 24 hours drive time away from them. I do have POA, both medical and financial. My parents will also not consider Assisted Living at this time, although they may have no choice in 6 mos.

[doghead]

Kygman, how far did you have to move to be with your dad? Were you able to find a job first?

[rdflk]

OP, tells us again why can't your sister move to FL she's already in NC, closer than you are? You have a life just like she does.

It's hard to read 'tone in printed text, I'm on your side, so don't take this anger or to be yelling at you or anything like that.

What you're going through is -- what I THINK -- the normal process of loving your parents, knowing how they may have sacrificed for you (in their own way perhaps) -- and wanting to care for them and do what you think is morally right -- and not neglecting your parents.

1) This mental back and forth is normal....2) You're doing what you can......3) You're NOT neglecting them.....4) so don't feel guilty about NOT moving.

(Now in my stern voice 1) You don't WANT to move. That's it. 1) You CAN'T move until you find a job. That's it. 3) Dad, at least, is adamant about not only not moving CLOSER...he doesn't want to leave FL -- period. So do what you're doing now.....visit, sign them up for services for which they qualify, become intimately involved with their finances, BTW, WHO IS DOING THEIR FINANCES NOW? I asked before but may have missed the answer. You need to know their finances to know what they'll qualify for and what they can afford. I know you've said they don't have much. HOW much is NOT much? How are those accounts title? Where are they? You need to know that, to know how many more months it will be before they can apply for Medicaid. YOU NEED TO KNOW THIS!

But my parents have been great to me and I think they are great people and actually fun to be around for their age and I enjoy their company.

That's great. But not a deciding factor.

Is this an emergency? Maybe yes. My father is deteriorating slowly and my mother rapidly with dementia/alz but not yet to the point where she needs any help eating, bathroom, etc. I think they are on the cusp of a rapid decline though.

Then you need to get into gear with the logistics of what I just suggested. Hop to it.

Last year, I visited them 5 times (total of about 28 days) and it really gets expensive with pet sitters and airfare although they have helped me somewhat.

Unfortunately there may not have been the asset protection there could have been...because if they qualify for Medicaid in less than five years you MIGHT have to give them that money back. Transfers of funds are subject to a five year look back. The MORE services you get in place, the more you consult with their doctors, the more reliable and constant you can have an aide....the less often you'll have to go to FL. But you WILL have to go to get all that in place. ARE YOU ON THEIR HIPPA FORMS? Have you gotten intimately involved with their medical care, doctors visits, do the docs know you?

I have a very close friend who is constantly urging me to make this move and I'm apprehensive for all the reasons we've discussed.

Forget that advice. WE who say who CAN"T and SHOULDN'T move are now your close friends. But seriously, just disregard that advice like a buzzing fly you swat away. It's so not in your best interest, that I don't know what else to say about it.

My sister and I had them evaluated by a social worker last week and will be trying an aide but they are really resistant because they think they are fine the way they are, although they are not eating well, their place is becoming disorganized and not functional, and my mom is very hard to "handle".

Keep moving ahead with those plans...with love. I was able to play psychology on my mom. I told her, "we want you to have this care and attention. You DESERVE to have some one cook and clean for you." She worked until she was 80...she earned the right to have someone cater to her full time! Im' not saying she bought that 100%. But she didn't fight us on it. Thank G-d.

But I don't want to destroy my life either.

So don't allow that. Come on. You're in your late 50s. You have YOUR life. Their's is declining. You CAN'T sacrifice you financial future. You just can't. IF you move to FL and G-dforbid they die in three weeks. THEN WHAT? You move to FL for nothing. I hate to put it that way. But that's the truth of it. You will have done something you didn't want to do, turned your life upside down and FOR WHAT?! You probably wouldn't even have had all your boxes unpacked! Even if you HAVE a job, it's a new job. You have no seniority. And you made a move you didn't want to make. And now YOU are stuck in FL.

Thanks.

No prob. My friends who'd gone down this road ahead of me helped me IMMENSELY. Their experiences, guidance, knowledge and advice -- AND what I learned here at CD -- were just a Godsend.

OP...IF you dad were to pass away first could you get your MOM to move closer to you? She is the one with dementia, so because of that alone she's less competent mentally. So that move might be easier because she wouldn't be able to challenge you on it. And of course, I'm sure you know -- FALLS -- with the elderly can be deadly, the beginning of a decline that otherwise wouldn't happen so quickly without it. My mom's doc told us whatever you do don't let her fall.

Be blessed....
I saw a card the other day. It said (read)....."This too shall pass." Then on the inside, "Like a KIDNEY STONE, but it will pass."

[germaine2626]

Originally Posted by rdflk

So don't allow that. Come on. You're in your late 50s. You have YOUR life. Their's is declining. You CAN'T sacrifice you financial future. You just can't. IF you move to FL and G-dforbid they die in three weeks. THEN WHAT? You move to FL for nothing. I hate to put it that way. But that's the truth of it. You will have done something you didn't want to do, turned your life upside down and FOR WHAT?! You probably wouldn't even have had all your boxes unpacked! Even if you HAVE a job, it's a new job. You have no seniority. And you made a move you didn't want to make. And now YOU are stuck in FL.

I think that people often forget that no one knows how long they, or their parents, will live.

People can die younger and faster and people can also live a very long time.

Some people can live independently for many years and other have problems at relatively young ages.

My aunt is 90 years old and one of her teachers is still alive and living in her own home. A couple moved in to help the former teacher when she was in her late 90s but she is still cognitively aware and physically active at (I believe) 103 years old.

OTOH, one of my close relatives was unable to continue working, and started to need supervision and help at age 58.

[rdflk]

^^ Yes. so true. My point was just that the OP shouldn't upend his or her life. That's all.

It just so happens that I was raised with the mantra that, "No day is promised to anyone. You could not only be here today and gone tomorrow. You could be here today, and gone TODAY! Not everyone who wakes up in the morning gets to put their head on the pillow at night." So....if there's something you want to do -- DO it. Something you want to say, SAY it. Because if you want to long you may not get to....so live with integrity, to the fullest, and no regrets to the best you can.

As my favorite line from "Shawshank Redemption" says: "Get busy livin', or get busy dying'."

[doghead]

RDFlK--thanks. Yes, I have thought exactly that, that if my mother were left alone, I could get her up here. It would not make much of a difference to her at that point.
On other points….father is still doing finances. Yes, I know who their doctors are but have only spoken to some of them. Germaine, interesting points too.
I am going to re-read all these posts and think, think think………..

[moon2]

You know yourself better than we do, obviously, as does your mentioned best friend. It's such a personal decision. There are pros and cons to either choice, but one of the things that struck me from your post was mentioning how much you enjoy your parents' company. I felt the same. My parents were loving, funny, smart, great fun, and had given me so much in my life.

I didn't have as much on the line as you do in terms of work (could work from wherever, though not take on as many projects), so economics wasn't (much) of a factor, but I did choose to disrupt my life in order to care for Mom after Dad died. We lived on opposite coasts and since we both had very solid/important networks in our own communities, I didn't want to fully uproot either of us, so chose a bi-coastal life. I rented a house on the opposite coast (esp useful when her Alz advanced too much for me to manage full time) and we spent time both places. This solution is obviously not practical or feasible for most, but it's the compromise I came up with. Some of the sacrifices were enormous, caring for someone with Alz is consuming, but so were the rewards. I would not trade those years I had with Mom for anything. The sacrifices were worth it. Bringing comfort and joy to elder parents, ones you enjoy and can laugh with, is not an altruistic decision.

From my perspective/experience, it's hard to imagine you would regret all that extra time with your parents once they're gone - if you can work out the economics of it. Your parents wouldn't want you to financially drown or even compromise yourself, as the primary thing most parents want to know is that their kids will be okay after they're gone.

[seain dublin]

Originally Posted by doghead

I so appreciate everyone's advice and thoughts. It has been a few days since I posted anything and I can't single out who of you said what specifically but you have really covered so much. My parents do have a few very close friends in FL and a fair number of acquaintances. During my sister's recent visit, I asked them if they would consider moving even halfway back to where my sister lives--N. Carolina--and my father said no, out of the question. He will not ever leave FL--he never wants to come back to this weather. Yes, he is originally from the northeast. My concerns are, I actually tried living in FL for 2 years after they moved down about 13 years ago. It did not work out for a few reasons, one of which was the job situation and I came back. My fear, as is everyone else's, is the job problem. I am in my late 50s and still need and plan to work, probably way beyond the normal retirement age of 65. I am trying and it's hard to find a job long distance. My father has mentioned that if I did find a job, he would buy a very inexpensive condo for me.
I work in the legal field--admin--but could adapt to most office situations. The plan would definitely include aides during the day since I would have to be at work. I would just be visiting evenings and doing errands on the weekends. Although I don't have a lot on the line here in the northeast (owning property, a committed relationship), I do have a great dentist, vets, and I prefer the geography of the northeast and do a lot of hiking. But my parents have been great to me and I think they are great people and actually fun to be around for their age and I enjoy their company. Is this an emergency? Maybe yes. My father is deteriorating slowly and my mother rapidly with dementia/alz but not yet to the point where she needs any help eating, bathroom, etc. I think they are on the cusp of a rapid decline though. Last year, I visited them 5 times (total of about 28 days) and it really gets expensive with pet sitters and airfare although they have helped me somewhat. I have a very close friend who is constantly urging me to make this move and I'm apprehensive for all the reasons we've discussed. My sister and I had them evaluated by a social worker last week and will be trying an aide but they are really resistant because they think they are fine the way they are, although they are not eating well, their place is becoming disorganized and not functional, and my mom is very hard to "handle". But I don't want to destroy my life either. Thanks.

rdflk again gave great advice.

Doghead, you already tried FL and it didn't work out well. It sounds like your father is trying to bribe you with the "inexpensive condo". The last thing you would need is more property to sell if they end up in an AL or when they pass.

I know it is not easy with the "role reversal" for the parents or the adult child, but you need to lay out the options for them that are available. We(your sister and you) if you need help have the options of NC or you come back up north, my moving to FL isn't an option. I can't leave my job at this stage in my life.

I know it's not easy, but you have to lay it on the line that if they need help from their adult children they have to go where the adult children are.

Sorry, but you have to think ahead. Let's say you did find work in FL(keep in mind the lower salaries, I know someone who worked as an Admin. Asst at a law firm and was getting $10 an hour in FL after 3 yrs of employment there), your parents pass, now you have to sell a condo and a house.

Of course I don't know your close friend, but sometimes people don't always have your best interests at heart. I find that very odd that they would be urging you to move to FL, 1) you don't want to go, 2) you lived there once and it didn't work out and 3) you're taking a financial hit at a stage in your life where there isn't time to recoup.

It's wonderful you want to help your parents, but as I said earlier when people need help and it requires a relocation the one who has the least to lose needs to move, not the one who is giving up the most.

I would also bet your parents spend most of their time indoors in FL, let's face it is a sauna about 8 months out of the year. If they went to NC by your sister it has a very moderate winter, if they went up north by you you're talking 3 to 4 months of winter.

So the cold weather excuse isn't enough. They're sitting in the house with the A/C on instead of the heat. And for many more months.

I think you need to be firmer with parents on this topic. That you and your sister will help, but they have to come to you.

[doghead]

Moon2--thank you for that post--that was beautifully said.
Seain--very good points. I guess the COL is so much cheaper down there and weather so much better--my father will not come back. I know what you mean about the salaries too in FL. A lot to consider.