Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Caregiving
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-31-2014, 03:17 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,152 posts, read 26,038,809 times
Reputation: 27877

Advertisements

It appears that you are talking about what happened because you took guardianship over your father?
If that's the basis of your rants and you are cautioning against becoming a guardian or in other ways assuming financial power for a parent, perhaps you should make that clearer....if that is what your complaint is. It's really not easy to tell.

Quite honestly, I have never heard of the 5 year recapture period applying to anything but Medicaid payouts.
That is probably not only I, but others, are not understanding your posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-31-2014, 07:06 AM
 
50,083 posts, read 35,727,051 times
Reputation: 76058
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevelationWriter View Post
- Should a parent out-live all their monies while in the nursing home?

The nursing home then has the legal right to go back 5 years into your family's history records and recover any gifts of money or valuables which the parents may have given their children.
If there's a money trail to their children. Or if children go to court as witnesses against each other.

My dad always gave me gifts of money. He always wrote out to me from his checking account.
So when the nursing home told me this? I was shocked!
And thinking back 5 years on the $23,000.00 he had given me?
If dad had out lived his money in the nursing home? And they needed more?
I would've had to pay the nursing home the $23,000.00 of my-gift money back to them!

- Not only that, but this also means the nursing home has the legal right to any Insurance Policies too!
Yeap, that's right. If a parent out-lives all other money and assets?
The nursing home becomes the new beneficiary of all the Insurance Policies too!
I almost cried when I was informed of this.

Yes, the nursing home is not The Care Givers, they are The Care-Takers.
I didn't read all the way through in case someone else answered this, but it is NOT the nursing home who does this, it's the state. The nursing home simply applies for Medicaid on dad's behalf to pay his bills after the money runs out. Medicaid has a 5-year look back period. They do this because so many people tried to give all their assets to their kids/hide assets and then expect the state to pay for their care.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2014, 08:33 AM
 
2,981 posts, read 2,911,357 times
Reputation: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevelationWriter View Post
- I'm not talking about a Government Agency doing anything.

My dad had the money to pay the Nursing Home far past the 4 years he was there.
Which was $5,000.00 a month just for the nursing home alone.
Which I made myself responsible to do on his behalf. Because I thought I had to!

If I said no I'm not responsible for you getting his money?
They would have taken care of it through their own staff.
This is what I'm talking about.

No one tells the family that they have to be Legally Responsible to the Court system
for paying the bills of their parents with their monies.
If there is no family that will do it?
The Nursing Home has their own qualified legal staff that will retrieve their payments due.
They have a list of Attorneys to be the execrator of the estate.
You don't have to be responsible to. This is what I'm trying to say.

~ So happy people are enjoying this Topic. Thanks for letting me know.
Glad it is helping you to understand that you are not the responsible party.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2014, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Northern panhandle WV
3,007 posts, read 3,107,889 times
Reputation: 6796
To the OP, THe nursing home itself can do none of the things you are complaining about. OTHER THAN if your parents run out of money, they can kick them out or they can sue for the money.
But what normally happens is that ONCE the monies are gone, THEN the patient goes on Medicaid and that is when all the look back and some of the other things you mentioned kick in.

If the Nursing home was indicating that they would do that, seize the money etc. they were lying or trying to scare you.

You really need to be less beligerent in your posts though, you come across very poorly. I am afraid that your trying to reach those who have their heads burried in the sand regarding these matters is not likely to help, since they can't read this with heads in the sand.

Most reasonably informed people know about these things or should learn the facts as soon as they have someone go into a nursing home.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2014, 09:17 AM
 
10,599 posts, read 17,786,208 times
Reputation: 17349
This is a MEDICAID issue.

You are correct that people should not make assumptions out of nowhere about how it "works". So yes, your S.O.S will have the intended effect for people who may not even THINK about money before acting.

Bottom line is if your father had all those assets, he/you ALSO should have had a LAWYER and/or CPA to EXPLAIN it to both of you. If not in advance, certainly when he entered the nursing home.

"Insurance policies" is a vague generality as is most of your experience as I read it. WHAT KIND OF "insurance policy"? Long Term Care? YES, that's what it's for. If LIFE insurance has his ESTATE as the beneficiary, then yes it goes towards his bills. If an individual is the beneficiary it goes to THEM.

There is extensive discussion all over the internet about this whole topic of nursing homes, medicaid, insurance etc.

http://www.agingcare.com/Answers/Are...ts--136206.htm
http://www.agingcare.com/Questions/l...ary-161717.htm

Yes it's difficult to navigate the topic, flailing around with no guidance. Mistake number one.

It appears you were just rolling along expecting your father to die before his money ran out, which is what plenty of people think. Mistake number two.

"paid for with their monies". WHOSE monies? The parent or the families?

WHO WAS DOING YOUR FATHER'S TAXES? YOU?

Mistake number three. Even IF there were NO NURSING HOME in the picture, GIFTING has IRS implications no matter how old the gift giver or recipients are.

Your nightmare may not be over if you get audited on YOUR return or your fathers' after the fact.


Quote:

Can I gift $10,000 per year to my children?

The first thing everyone should understand is that gifting is absolutely OFF LIMITS. That includes small gifts (exceeding $500) and what people like to refer to as the “yearly exclusion” gifts (now $14,000 but previously $10,000 per donee per year) and those gifts that people make that they don’t realize are gifts (putting your kids name on the Pocono house, for example).

ANY gift of ANY amount (unless it is made more than five (5) years before the elder applies for Medical Assistance) is going to be added together and the penalty for making the gift assessed against the applicant AT THE TIME OF APPLICATION.

Since people usually apply for assistance when they run out of money, this could be disastrous. And since children are now personally responsible for indigent parents, the disaster could be that the children’s assets are fully exposed to the costs of nursing care. Bottom line – DO NOT GIFT! Do not add children’s names to accounts or assets without consulting an advisor familiar with Medicaid laws.
Asset Protection Attorneys | Chalfont and Bucks County

Publication 17 (2013), Your Federal Income Tax

Last edited by runswithscissors; 01-31-2014 at 09:26 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2014, 09:35 AM
 
2,981 posts, read 2,911,357 times
Reputation: 595
- My son knows he is NOT to be the responsible 'Power Of Attorney' for so called Me..

- My son knows that he is NOT to be My So Called responsible "Guardian" either.

He does not have to answer to any institution on their accounts which I may owe them.

And Also what my son Knows that he is to file himself with The Court as being 'a Concerned party' on my behalf.
SO Any Institutional Personnel DOES HAVE To Report To Him any and all Transactions when paying themselves from my monies!

That's right folks. Because he is my Concerned Relative?
HE Has The Legal and Binding Right To Know How, When And Who Has A Legal Rights To My Possessions.
And What They Are Doing With Them, And Me.
THEY WILL BE LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE TO KEEPING HIM INFORMED ON HOW THEY PAY THEMSELVES WITH MY MONEY!
THEY WILL HAVE TO KEEP IT ALL STRAIGHT AND REPORT TO HIM!

AND IF AT ANYTIME MY LOVING SON TO WHOM EVERYTHING OF MINE IS WILLED TO?
EVEN FEELS THEY ARE MISUSING MY FUNDS FROM THEIR REPORTS THEY SEND HIM?
HE HAS A DIRECT VOICE WITH THE COURT TO DEMAND ANSWERS IN FRONT OF A JUDGE!
HOLDING THEM TO THE LETTER OF THE LAW!
AND THEY HAVE TO SHOW UP BEFORE THE JUDGE WITH ALL PROOFS IN HAND!

- There a funny thing about Power.
Those who know you have it? Never want to admit it to you!
But when you know that you have power over them? YOU DON'T HAVE TO AGEE WITH THEM!
AND, THEY MUST COMPLY.

My son does not need an attorney to bring such inquisitions to the attention of the Court.
All he would need to do is take a letter to The Court house informing a Judge that the reports he received
are questionable to my well being and, or my estate!

And that folks keeps the system we pay for, working for us.

How do I know all this?

Because I was forced to know this, as well. A little too late for me. But not for my son.

- Don't expect anyone to admit this is true.
Because those who know it, don't want you to.
And those who don't know it, will go along with them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2014, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,152 posts, read 26,038,809 times
Reputation: 27877
Sigh.....it seems like you may have some useful information that could be of benefit to somebody but it's almost impossible to figure out just what that information is from the belligerent and rambling way you are presenting it.

I think it's a caution about signing on as a guardian but I'm not even sure about that.
I don't need the info so I guess I'll leave it up to those that care to try to filter out anything useful
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2014, 12:38 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 2,911,357 times
Reputation: 595
- Which brings we to the subject of siblings not wanting other siblings
in charge of the parents monies when they have to go into the nursing home.

And there's a big expensive fight in the Courts about who should and who should not do it all.
As if they will be winning a Big Prize! It's A Big Prize Of Pride.
Which Will Surely Burst Right Before Your Eyes. When they learn who the smart one really is.

Cause the other siblings think their not going to have a say
and that they will be in the dark about the allocations of family monies and assets.

But I say let them if you can't enlighten them with such reason here.
Then, you sit back and watch them in the continuous scramble for many years burning themselves out.
While you will have filed with the Court as a family 'Concerned party'.
So that the one who has to do all the Leg-work for every Legal Institution will then also have to Mail You Copied Reports Of ALL The Transactions. Which you can call them up to Court on anytime you even think their doing it wrong. And you don't even need an Attorney. You can just drop off a Letter to The Court asking that a they be brought in to answer your Concerns in front of a Judge. It's almost laughable at what people believe real power is.

That's right, they have to send you by mail EVERY MONTH The Banking Statements!
And any other decision making proofs.
Yes, they will have to answer to you and to AS Many family members by Mail that file to be a 'Concerned Party'
on behalf of a family member in the nursing home.
Yes, they'll be the Big Proud Winners Of The Titles 'Power of Attorney' or 'Guardian'.

And when and if the Court sees they have made a mistake? They will have to reimburse the estate.
And they may be proved then to not be fit to do it all for everyone.
Or if they have stolen anything? They face jail time as well.
So don't think that a mean conniving person will get very far.
Just let these type of people run a course which will be very short;
as their reporting to you and all their sibling, and, or even Aunts & Uncles,...on their every finical move they decide to make.

And if their intentions are found out to not to be worthy?
THEN, The Court Will Offer You The Task Of Keeping It ALL Straight For Everyone.
And you can say No Thanks. The Position Of My Title Is Working Out Quite Well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2014, 12:45 PM
 
3,433 posts, read 5,717,227 times
Reputation: 5470
to the OP............wouldn't it be a lot easier to simply say................" I believe parents should be allowed to keep all their money and possessions and have the taxpayer pay for all nursing home cost "
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2014, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Chicago area
18,748 posts, read 11,704,562 times
Reputation: 64054
RW you made my day. I can only hope that the nursing home my MIL ends up in goes after my husbands siblings and her grandchildren for bleeding her dry. Sweet. As for our part of her inheritance, they can have that too. It's her money and we thought it would be best if we learned how to wipe our own bottoms and blow our own nose. We never asked her for a dime, nor are we counting on receiving what should be spent on her after she goes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Caregiving
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top