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Reading through this and other threads in this forum has solidified my need for plans should my wife predecease me. I had always assumed I would be the first of us to reach our expiration date; not because I'm a couple of hears older but because the average lifespan of a man in my paternal family is 71 (my father's and his father's age at death while my one uncle only made it to 69) - I'm just three years out - and because my wife was always very healthy and her family comparatively long-lived.
Events over the past couple of years have made me question that as I sense a vulnerability and fragility in her I had never had an inkling of before. I guess the ideal would be us going together and all my planning has been to ensure she was taken care of should I assume room temperature first. Time for a paradigm shift for planning purposes.
I would hope that all spousal caregivers - in fact all spouses - make end-of-life contingency plans for both. I know it's not a cheerful prospect but none of us are getting out of this alive.
My husband is, quite frankly, not as compliant a patient as I am! He tends to overdo, deny, minimize, etc. till he nearly collapses. He HATES to accept help and to admit frailties or weaknesses.
Now wait just a doggone minute here. Are you my wife 'cause she says I'm all of the above and calls me her hero too?
Reading through this and other threads in this forum has solidified my need for plans should my wife predecease me. I had always assumed I would be the first of us to reach our expiration date; not because I'm a couple of hears older but because the average lifespan of a man in my paternal family is 71 (my father's and his father's age at death while my one uncle only made it to 69) - I'm just three years out - and because my wife was always very healthy and her family comparatively long-lived.
Events over the past couple of years have made me question that as I sense a vulnerability and fragility in her I had never had an inkling of before. I guess the ideal would be us going together and all my planning has been to ensure she was taken care of should I assume room temperature first. Time for a paradigm shift for planning purposes.
I would hope that all spousal caregivers - in fact all spouses - make end-of-life contingency plans for both. I know it's not a cheerful prospect but none of us are getting out of this alive.
Amen and amen.
My parents have their faults, but one of them is NOT a lack of communication about end of life plans for either of them. We've discussed in depth their individual expectations and plans, and how we can and should help them, when one of them passes, leaving the other who will become even more elderly and dependent. Not only that, we've included spouses in these group discussions.
We have a good plan. My father has provided well for my mother, so if he goes on before her, there is plenty of money there for her to move to a ALF or community (depending on her needs) or if possible, a small, zero lot line townhouse in a neighborhood adjoining ours and I will check on her daily by stopping in personally and spending some time with her on a daily basis. She will be able to pay for care during the day or night (whichever is most necessary). When it becomes impossible for her to live without someone being there most of the time, she will move to an ALF in the town I live in and I will come to visit her several times a week, perhaps daily if she's too bored or lonely. My mom is in agreement with this plan.
My father is a different story. He is a very self contained and neat person, who requires very little "attention" to be happy - though he doesn't enjoy being alone in a house. He would function best in a detached apartment adjacent to our home, because he's sociable in the mornings and enjoys watching a movie at night with someone. He's so non obtrusive and easy to get along with that my husband and I have both agreed that if he needed to live with us, he could - but the best scenario would be in his own apartment close by - even in our own back yard. My dad is very pleased with that idea. When and if it got to the point where he needed 'round the clock care, he has agreed to go into an ALF - but that's because he's very private and would HATE for a family member to have to help him take a bath, change his depends, etc.
My parents know that if something unexpected happened and they suddenly found themselves a widow or widower, I would come up there for 30 days (my husband has agreed to this). I would help them get a plan together and then we'd move TOGETHER on that plan - meaning that I'd help them with the transition from living alone to living near me (they are both in agreement that they would move to be near me in this scenario - the sooner the better).
My inlaws - all bets are off. We have tried for YEARS to get them to put a plan in place. Right now their plan consists of "I guess we'll just die here together - meanwhile, a lack of planning on our part constitutes an emergency on your part."
Let me begin by apologizing in advance for what I am sure will be a lengthy, introductory post. Perhaps labeling it a "rant" will end up being more accurate.
Just visited this forum for the first time and at a glance, with cynwldkat's thread regarding her husband's ALS and her wonderful wish for them being an exception, the majority of the threads appear to be about taking care of elderly parents. I think the frustration that can engender is well expressed by KathrynAragon's threads regarding both her and her husband's parents and their dysfunction. Kathryn, take it from me, neither of you are alone in having [had] dysfunctional parents. Both my wife and I did as well with both of our mothers being toxic and our fathers passive and conflict adverse - much as I was in my former marriage. You're right. In the end it's the children who suffer.
This emphasis on elderly parents doesn't surprise me as it's inevitable that as we age, so, too, do our parents. But age we do and more and more of us slip into senior status every day as one of the fastest growing demographics in the country.
All that being said, back on-topic in my own thread. Now my wife and I are the elderly parents; she's 65 and I will turn 68 next week. Between us (late-in-life marriage) we have seven children who live in two other states, the closest, my two sons, being 700 miles away. The rest, all five of our daughters, are 2,000 miles distant which is almost far enough. We have 12 grandchildren in three states, two more on the way and a great grandchild. We moved from where all the daughters are on the left coast and settled here in 2009. For the first several years of retirement we enjoyed continued, robust good health, went, did, explored, enjoyed life.
Almost exactly on my 66th birthday, all hell broke loose with me physically. Over a three day period I lost all feeling from my elbows down through my hands, my knees down through my feet and my balance. I experienced violent leg tremors periodically and other problems. Long story short, significant neurosurgery six months later began to relieve some of the symptoms and the continued recovery has been slow and at times, horribly painful, but progress continues. Damn good thing.
Not to be outdone and about six months after my surgery, my wife started experiencing severe neuropathy with accompanying lack of balance and excruciating lower back and sciatic, upper leg pain which, due to some unrelated issues, has not been able to be effectively treated at this time.
But good timing on my wife's part. I have recovered enough to be able to care for her and keep things "running" at the house with the help of a periodic housekeeper and lawn care assistance. Fortunately I enjoy cooking and am pretty good at it. I'm also able to do good wound care as necessitated by her being hit with an autoimmune disorder; the open foot and leg wounds keeping her from the surgery she needs.
What prompted this "rant" was that just an hour ago m wife and I were talking - yeah, I know strange, huh? - and she burst into tears about how unfair she considers it that I am now housebound right along with her because I am now her primary caregiver. I did my best to calm her and assured her that while at times I do feel a bit overwhelmed (I believe in honesty) at no time do I blame her and in the end, I'm her husband and partner and it's my job to take care of her as needed. One thing we've always agreed upon is that at no time will we burden our children with our care. That leaves the two of us.
So for those of you who do take care of the needs of elderly parents, what are your plans when you become them and has the experience changed them or at least caused you to think about them. Like it or not it could very well happen. If you haven't thought about it I submit that you should. There but for the grace of God...
Thanks for listening. [/rant]
Good topic! There are a lot of spouses out there caring for one another and I sometimes wonder how they do it. My own parents are, to me, the 'poster children' when it comes to spousal care.
A little background...my dad wrecked his small plane when he was 26. They said he'd never walk again but he proved them wrong. At the same time my mom was preparing to come to the US from Australia to marry my dad and become "mom" to me and my sister...ages 4 and 2. From the day she arrived in the states my mom was my dad's "caregiver". He never fully recovered from that accident but managed to go to college, work and support a family. My mom was right there with him. My dad's sisters thought she "spoiled" him because she helped him with his shoes etc.. He simply couldn't do it. Couldn't bend with a still, pretty much, broken back. Around age 40 my dad became self employed and my mom was, again, right there working alongside of him and making sure he was okay. They were married 54 years when Dad passed away. And by the same token, my dad was always there for my mom when she had health issues as well. Luckily for both of them they were few and far between.
Taking care of my dad all those years caused a lot of my mom's 'aging'. Within six months of his passing she looked ten years younger and more relaxed. I don't think, even I, realized how much pressure, worry and work she put in. Especially the last few years. I didn't get home very often and when I did everything seemed "normal" to me so I never gave it a second thought. Bad daughter!
As for the kids "taking care of" a family member...that's never going to happen in this family. None of my brothers have to worry about having to do it, my sister needs nearly 24/7 care herself, and that leaves me. And I'm good with that. Only one of her sons ever bothers to call or come see her and that's sporadic and not very often. He'll say he's coming over and then show up for a week. His son also comes by once a week to take her to church and spend a little time with her. Other brother calls once in a blue moon, always remembers her b'day and Mother's Day, but never sets foot in her house. Why? Who knows? Both brothers live here. None of their kids ever come by to see Grandma and it's almost like they don't know she exists or who she is. Even the ones she's been closest to all their lives. This is a major point with me and it makes me mad. Truthfully, I really have accepted it as being what it is, but that doesn't stop me from still getting angry about it now and then. So, no, none of them will ever have to worry about "taking care of Grandma". I hope I don't chew them all out at her funeral.
Relationships take work. They are not "created" by simply by birth. In our family, my parents were always more interested in their lives and work and issues than having any interest in the kids or grandkids. This lack of interest will work itself thru the whole of the relationships. We ended up having little interest in them.
Was your mother totally engrossed in dealing with and relating to her husband (who needed her) and did she give enough interest and thought to the relationship she had with her kids and grandkids? None of us will really know since we were not an intimate part of the group. It is impossible for someone on the outside to truly understand the family dynamics even within groups of their own family. Sometimes this happens when one child needs much more attention due to illness or disability than any of the others in the family. Books have been written about it.
Relationships take work. They are not "created" by simply by birth. In our family, my parents were always more interested in their lives and work and issues than having any interest in the kids or grandkids. This lack of interest will work itself thru the whole of the relationships. We ended up having little interest in them.
Was your mother totally engrossed in dealing with and relating to her husband (who needed her) and did she give enough interest and thought to the relationship she had with her kids and grandkids? None of us will really know since we were not an intimate part of the group. It is impossible for someone on the outside to truly understand the family dynamics even within groups of their own family. Sometimes this happens when one child needs much more attention due to illness or disability than any of the others in the family. Books have been written about it.
There are some dynamics between some family members that, yes, do preclude all this 'ignoring Mom' thing. It's a long story, that I won't bore you with, but what it comes down to is two brothers who can't stand one another and make things uncomfortable for the rest of us. Younger brother is the spoiled one and always has been. Plus, watching his siblings growing up he learned early on how to pull the wool over his parents eyes. He's always been the Golden Boy but his siblings KNOW him a lot better than his mom does. Older brother just got sick and tired of hearing everything there was to know about "younger brother" every time he tried to visit or talk to Mom. I know exactly what he's talking about because I've BTDT with her too. I told her, not long ago, that she really hurts his feelings when she does that because he calls to talk to HER, about HER and HIS family, etc.. He doesn't need to be filled in on what "younger brother" is doing and all that. She said she'd try to remember that and didn't realize... I don't think either of them should use all that as an excuse to NEVER call or visit though. In a way I think maybe they think she'll always be there. She always has been so why not? Older brother was shocked when he asked how old Mom is and I told him, 87. Not even knowing how old your mom is?
Growing up my family worked together and played together. My dad built homes, apartments and rehabbed apt. complexes. Because of his health issues all of us kids learned to work alongside of him and Mom. They never ever ignored us and she was always there if we had a problem or to help with homework, etc.. My mom was a super woman. lol They practically raised a couple of their grkids. My younger brothers kids. One of them just moved out of her home after living there three years with his wife and, now, 18 mo. old baby. She has always loved her grkids and never understood why their parents would keep them away. My oldest daughter makes it a point to get up here to see her at least once a month and I appreciate that she does that.
Anyway...I really didn't mean to turn this thread into a rant about my family members. I guess they just get on my nerves sometimes. Sorry.
There are some dynamics between some family members that, yes, do preclude all this 'ignoring Mom' thing. It's a long story, that I won't bore you with, but what it comes down to is two brothers who can't stand one another and make things uncomfortable for the rest of us. Younger brother is the spoiled one and always has been. Plus, watching his siblings growing up he learned early on how to pull the wool over his parents eyes. He's always been the Golden Boy but his siblings KNOW him a lot better than his mom does. Older brother just got sick and tired of hearing everything there was to know about "younger brother" every time he tried to visit or talk to Mom. I know exactly what he's talking about because I've BTDT with her too. I told her, not long ago, that she really hurts his feelings when she does that because he calls to talk to HER, about HER and HIS family, etc.. He doesn't need to be filled in on what "younger brother" is doing and all that. She said she'd try to remember that and didn't realize... I don't think either of them should use all that as an excuse to NEVER call or visit though. In a way I think maybe they think she'll always be there. She always has been so why not? Older brother was shocked when he asked how old Mom is and I told him, 87. Not even knowing how old your mom is?
Growing up my family worked together and played together. My dad built homes, apartments and rehabbed apt. complexes. Because of his health issues all of us kids learned to work alongside of him and Mom. They never ever ignored us and she was always there if we had a problem or to help with homework, etc.. My mom was a super woman. lol They practically raised a couple of their grkids. My younger brothers kids. One of them just moved out of her home after living there three years with his wife and, now, 18 mo. old baby. She has always loved her grkids and never understood why their parents would keep them away. My oldest daughter makes it a point to get up here to see her at least once a month and I appreciate that she does that.
Anyway...I really didn't mean to turn this thread into a rant about my family members. I guess they just get on my nerves sometimes. Sorry.
Rant away. After all it's a thread about spousal caregiving and that would and should include what it does to the family dynamics.
Among other things I think my children are somewhat miffed by the fact that I'm not real communicative and haven't been for awhile. However, but for my birthday, Christmas and Father's Day, the onus seems to always have been on me to call and keep in touch, drive to see (some of) them in other state's, etc. They know my wife has been very limited in what she could do and where she could go for awhile and that I've had serious neurological issues and major surgery yet have been taking care of her but that never seemed to register until I finally told them that if anyone wished to see us they would have to do the traveling as we are no longer up to it.
My two sons and their families have finally, after five years, visited us here. My three daughters haven't and won't. My oldest hates my wife just because she still thinks I shouldn't have remarried after her mother and I divorced and the next two barely know my wife since the ex alienated them from me for 12 years. It probably says a lot about me that I have become inured to it all. I'm out of energy and tolerance for family dynamics. Drama and I don't get along at all. Never have.
Beginning this week my wife is finally getting home health care, electronic monitoring, wound care, physical therapy tons of tests and more. That relieves me of a lot of the things I have had to do for her on a daily basis and we're adding gardening to the semi-weekly housekeeping and lawn care we'd begun to pay for some months ago. Of course, now I'm trading some of what I used to do all of for chauffer duties of anywhere from 45 to 100 miles round-trip for all the appointments outside of the home. Ah, the joys of rural living. I do continue to do all the laundry, cooking, pet care, shopping, interim housekeeping, honey-dos, etc. I also get to answer the door a lot. Home healthcare sent one person here Saturday, one yesterday, two today and there will be at least another tomorrow. Nurses will be coming three days a week to do wound care on one of her feet and her opposite leg to try to keep her from losing at least toes if not the whole foot thanks to a very rare, autoimmune disorder which has laid areas bare to the bone. She's not diabetic. A fourth day in the week the wound clinic at our local, regional medical center/hospital will do the honors. We started the week with an out-of-home medical appointment yesterday and have two more this week and two so far next week. No boredom around here.
OK, so it's safe to say I don't always consider family to be all it's cracked-up to be. On the other hand, we are the ones who moved 2,000 miles away from our combined five daughters but that many miles closer to my sons who are still 700 miles away. We also moved someplace we really wanted to be in retirement and have no regrets. That's all ! [/Rant #2]
I guess I just dont get what expectations can be made for kids and their own families to use precious vacations time (since Americans get so little) and money to pack up and travel 2000-700 miles to visit parents on a regular basis when the parents voluntarily chose to pick up and move away.
My parents lived 2500 miles away and it was costly airfare, rental car, hotel and meals to visit them. My inlaws lived 600 miles in the opposite direction. Again a costly trip.
Mom moved here and we have seen her more in one year than in the previous 40 years.
Nothing wrong about moving either but the expectation of visits should be severely curtailed.
I guess I just dont get what expectations can be made for kids and their own families to use precious vacations time (since Americans get so little) and money to pack up and travel 2000-700 miles to visit parents on a regular basis when the parents voluntarily chose to pick up and move away.
My parents lived 2500 miles away and it was costly airfare, rental car, hotel and meals to visit them. My inlaws lived 600 miles in the opposite direction. Again a costly trip.
Mom moved here and we have seen her more in one year than in the previous 40 years.
Nothing wrong about moving either but the expectation of visits should be severely curtailed.
Since that was clearly directed at me I think I made it pretty clear I had no such expectations. Heretofore, we did all the traveling. That's no longer possible. The rest was a big "IF." There was also no mention of any basis, regular or otherwise.
We have children and grandchildren in three states. We moved closer to some, further from others and the fact remains that we moved to where we wished to live in retirement. So shoot us! You just can't please all the people all the time.
I have lived within the same 30 mile radius for 25 of my 52 years on this earth (the past 25 years in fact). Meanwhile, my parents have continued to indulge in the wanderlust they've had their whole lives. They are in their late 70s and about three years ago moved AGAIN - this time five hours north of me.
They bought a house with a guest suite and furnished it "just for me." It's very comfortable, but it's still five hours away.
I was going up there for several days a month...until my daughter with three of my grandchildren moved closer to me, and suddenly my free time every month was being spent going to the zoo, doing fun projects, planting gardens, etc with three very charming little girls!
Meanwhile, my parents have been spending more and more of their time going back and forth to the doctor - and realizing that all the fun is happening five hours south of them!
At first they sort of pouted about my less frequent trips to visit them (they make the drive down about once every two or three YEARS - so it's far from an even exchange). But after several months, they began to realize that if they moved back to this area (an area I moved to 25 years ago expressly to be close to them!), they'd get to see family a lot more.
My dad finally reached the conclusion that "he loves the mountains but they don't love him back." My parents are coming down in a few weeks to look at local real estate - and will nearly certainly be moving back to this area. THANK GOODNESS.
No one - parents or kids - should voluntarily move far away from family with the expectation that family will make the extra effort to come see THEM on a regular basis. It's just not a fair position in my opinion.
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