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Although several people have suggested it, I don't think you have said whether you have discussed this situation with the ALF people and her doctors. Are her doctors going to agree that she is able to drive and rent a house and care for herself?
she needs to have a medical poa for this but with laws it is real hard to get information unless her mom does ok it. I think also her mom may leave under her own free will also. Many mostly at the home will not get involved since she never was b4 a judge to say she can't be on her own. Reason a law suit
for them and the home. as no money you get a notice to leave and find a new home
Last edited by maggiekate; 10-13-2014 at 02:38 PM..
An ordinary POA does not require court or a lawyer to revoke. A written directive by the person is all that is needed.
There are forms that can be used and are easy to obtain.
She may or may not know this.
If the title to the car is in op's name, it is her car...mom can't take it.
lilred , you may have to figure out what to do for money while out of work or how to work and postpone surgery while saving up some. A lot of people have to figure this out .
the problem with the car is if a poa was used to get money to buy it and then title it in daughter's name.
using a poa for this may raise questions, also care of the car insurance should not come from the mom's money. one more question also is it a poa or a durable poa which only takes place when different issues do arise. Best for her to seek legal help to review what can be done and not.
I never used the POA for the car. A check was made to me, then I wrote the check for the car. I never talked to a therapist about the POA. I talked to her social worker, ppl at facility, and director of nursing and no one thinks she should be on her own. The general consensus is to put the ball in her court, if she's able to get transportation, a place to live, handle all her bills, and handle all her meds and appointments then great but the likelihood of that happening are pretty small.
I never used the POA for the car. A check was made to me, then I wrote the check for the car. I never talked to a therapist about the POA. I talked to her social worker, ppl at facility, and director of nursing and no one thinks she should be on her own. The general consensus is to put the ball in her court, if she's able to get transportation, a place to live, handle all her bills, and handle all her meds and appointments then great but the likelihood of that happening are pretty small.
the problem is one with the car if she is not able to know what she is doing and writes a check for a car that should be null and void. also if she did know what she did then she is able to come and go as she wants. the bigger issue is unless she has lots of money and needs nursing home care they do look backs five years where the money did go. an elder attorney would be best to go to for help b4 she goes thru all her money. the home they get paid and they may be nice but once money is gone?
I think with the poa you even may be able to have an elder lawyer help you with her money. they should know that answer also the poa if not durable may need to be updated since the poa if she can't do her affairs would end more problems. you need to know the difference from a durable poa and the other also. I do have a poa which is durable meaning it only takes place if 2 doctors etc. say I can't do bills etc. the other poa is general but ends with a person not understanding bills etc.
If you get an elder law attorney to look over what you have he may be able since your mother wants to help have it set up so you do get paid for services which is OK in many states. however, it needs to be legal and in writing also. that may help your stress level call the county or state bar and ask for a lawyer most will do a consult for a small fee. don't just pick any attorney also bring what you have and your moms debts and assets. also write down what you do and the time it takes etc
Last edited by maggiekate; 10-13-2014 at 04:37 PM..
Many of you know my situation and have been wonderfully supportive, I may not always have time to respond back but I read and appreciate every word. For those who don't know I will give some background.
I am the only child of divorced parents, we have no other family
My mother adopted me at a few days old and has vascilated between caring parents and abusive nightmare. She has been diagnosed with a mixture of Narcissistic Personality disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder. When she comes after you she doesn't just call you bad names, she hits you at your most venerable, it's like soul killing. Plus she could/can be physically abusive too. Even so, I have always stuck by her, never abandoning her.
After a bad accident which left me with a broken back, herniated disks, and surgery, she begged me to move home and because I obviously couldn't work, I moved home. Just as I was getting better and was making plans to resume my life, she started to become ill which culminated in her having a stroke. Although at first the damage seemed very minimal, after 6 months it became apparent she was having dementia like symptoms coupled with falling episodes. She could be very lucid all day and then just go off the rails. It's like a computer going offline. She is easily confused has poor memory and incessantly loses things and is sometimes combative and incontinent. She would frequently tell me that I OWED her, that if I had wanted to get married, have kids, or a career that I should have done it in my 20s because now it was too late for me because she was my SOLE responsibility. She would or wasn't able to do or handle almost anything yet wanted to maintain COMPLETE control. I couldn't often get her to go to bed at a decent hour, eat properly, or take her meds correctly. It was frustrating and terrifying, especially when she would fall and then make me with a disability try to lift her back up as she couldn't get herself up after a fall. She absolutely refused to allow me to call 911. During this time I took her to many doctors trying to figure out what was going on and get help. At EVERY appointment she would flirt, joke, wasn't honest about anything and because she can often pull it together for shorter periods of time, I'd look like I was exaggerating or crazy myself. I would cry after those appointments. Also she had wrecked the car twice before putting the car in my name and stopping driving, she started two fires, and would wander in the front yard half clothed so I'd get calls from the neighbors. I literally couldn't leave the house (my only time away from the madness) to run errands, without getting 10 plus calls from her or calls from the neighbors.
After all of this going on for over a year, after several falls in a couple of days, I called 911. She was taken to the hospital, was there for 4 or so days, then admitted to a rehab to work on falls. During this time she could no longer keep up her "I'm fine" act, doctors and nurses saw the bizarre behavior and they diagnosed her as having dementia and FINALLY told me that one person alone, especially disabled, could NOT take care of her alone and that she desperately needed to be placed in an ALF. So, I stopped listening to her and started following doctors orders. Btw, her closest friend has taken my side and been 100% supportive. I had her placed in a small ALF and when she was stable and much better, I moved her to a bigger ALF with many more activities. Since I do have POA and am health surrogate, I pay all bills, cleaned and made all home repairs, sold home, kept her safe, clean, did her taxes, ect.
Well, she HATES me. She takes ZERO responsibility for anything. Makes it out that I stole her freedom, took away all her rights, had her thrown in some prison like place, and abandoned her. After months of complaints and abuse, she calls me yesterday to tell me she is getting out, she was misdiagnosed, nothing is wrong with her, and she's retained an attorney to fight me. She had bought me a car a few months back because the old one we had was a money pit and now she claims it was only bought for her and she wants it back so she can start her new life. The car is in my name as was the old one. I told her I would not fight her going out on her own so she does not need an attorney. But I know she is unable to function on her own and will expect me to either help her or pick up the pieces when things inevitably go bad. I swear I will NEVER again work like a slave to keep her safe and healthy again when she has done nothing but hurt me.
Finally, she has been helping me financially because it was hard to get back on my feet after being a full time caregiver for years. I had no money saved at all as I was never paid for my help or work. Unfortunately, I just found out I need knee surgery and can't work until I'm healed. I bought health insurance for the first time in years because she told me to do it because I'm a mess from constant stress ect from full time caregiving. Yesterday she told me she will no longer pay for anything. She is cutting me off and to "dry my tears and suck it up"! Nice, huh? Sadly, if she had called me and told me she needed help (which I have offered) to go to a different ALF or senior community, and that she would soon need to stop financial help because of the cost of her care- I would have been 100% understanding and helpful. But I now think after ALL these years, I may finally have to cut ties to save myself. It is just a matter of time before she gets hurt, hurts someone else, gets sick and I will again be expect to move in with her and pick up the pieces and the whole cycle will begin again.
you have one life to live yours sure I did help my Mom but never did want a dime why I did care. siblings had other ideas anyway do what is right and all turns out best
Not much I can say will tell you anything you don't know deep down in your own heart.
Clearly you've been through a lot. And clearly dealing with difficult, aging parents can be a severe challenge -- even if the adult child doesn't have the health challenges you do.
It sounds like you're continuing the process of deciding when you've had enough...and IF you truly can let her go -- whether she sinks or swims, survives or not. That's not easy. But you may be getting there.
It's a process to accept what we cannot change.
My questions as I read your post....were: CAN you truly let her go? Are you in a financially position to do that? CAN you support yourself? Do you need her for financial help of ANY kind? I believe you said you pay her bills...out of HER money, I take it...so you manage ALL her finances? IF you need her for ANY financial help -- even if slight -- how CAN you cut her loose and leave her to her own devices?
IF you need to keep managing her money for HER sake and YOUR's -- then YOU need to get tough and EITHER tell everyone you ARE pulling rank because you have her medical and financial POA, and you tell THEM how it's going to be.....OR.....let her AND her money go.....
-- CAN you pull away completely...when you already know her bills won't get paid, she might not get meds, etc....and the docs and ALF people who already know you -- KNOW you have the POA -- so they're be calling you anyway, and bothering you about it.....so CAN you say no MATTER WHAT they could call and say she's walking out the door we're done with her -- that you'd hang up and say..."I don't care I'm done, oh, well? Call someone who cares." CAN you do that? THAT is what you need to come to terms with.
...or would you step back in so she's not kicked out of the facility and homeless on the street, so she can manage to save/keep some assets/money (if she gets Soc Sec or a pension SOMEONE has got to manage that) so she doesn't end up broke in the street like a homeless, mentally ill baglady.
HOWEVER, there is one other alternative.....you continue to do what you can, BUT get to the point of acceptance where you don't let her PUSH YOUR EMOTIONAL BUTTONS. When she calls you say, "yeah mom, no mom." If she starts to yell put the phone down, and come back a few minutes later, or say "mom you're yelling and I'm not going to listen to it. love you, BYE." ...When the facility calls you to give you an update -- ask them "what concrete action do you want me to do about it?" IF you can do what they ask, then great...if not, oh well.
YOU have got to get off your OWN emotional roller coaster. You already know she CAN"T get off. You're the only one of the two of you who can. It's been YEARS and she can still push your buttons, but each month that passes perhaps as you get more clarity yourself....you get closer to releasing what ever mental hold she has on you......and just doing what you can, BUT putting yourself first.
well said and she may even give up doing money for her mom also no job no medicare and lost work less social security for her. I believe she needs to contact an elder care attorney and unless her mom is super rich get advice.
All she may really need is to contract a home healthcare agency to get an in-home companion to provide some or all of those services. It may have turned out that the two of you became co-dependents and much more remains to be revealed as to the real nature of the relationship than can be revealed here with only one side of the story.
forgot doing medical bills and full time work and either a nursing home or whatever I said could I please go there! why peace and rest. anyway, bottom line I got booted from the home as care giver child lawyers got rich in out you go siblings. the care giver was a child you stayed and cared for there parent to save the nursing home money. only that child could live and save the home while a parent was in the nursing home. They wanted her back so I said I would leave well she never left the nursing home she was too ill. I however did leave and home got sold and then got a foreclose. I have a home paid off and a job and my Mom is at peace and was safe
Last edited by maggiekate; 10-13-2014 at 05:48 PM..
all she needs to do is hire an attorney to revoke the POA which they may do. If she did buy you a car that attorney may say it was not a gift etc.
Any person can do a POA then do a letter which makes in null and void. Can you get out on your own at all. I myself had a poa then later did change it,
once you do a new POA it revokes the old one. A neighbor near me was in somewhat the same situation but with her the court had an approved person act as her financial guardian with money. regarding the car and her driving you could have the registry see if she really can safely drive,
No, we already know this lady is NOT CAPABLE of "doing a letter" and if she finds some scam artist attorney (like she said she did)...who thinks they're going to make a quick buck revoking the POA officially, the OP will go to court and PROVE that she was not competent to do so. The mother will have to go to court, too.
That ought to be cute.
I can't even imagine a single "normal" lawyer accepting this mother without doing LOTS of other social services work like bringing the daughter into the picture.
You're talking about a court appointed guardian I believe, but because I'm not a lawyer I didn't go into all that.
But a real lawyer would. And y es that is the next step IMO if the OP doesn't want to be responsible for her, just go have her competency challenged and the court will appoint a third party.
And this woman needs someone more responsible than "with money" if she is ACTUALLY trying to leave the place and sign a legal contract for an apartment.
The whole thing makes no sense since we don't even know what the people at the ALF say...just the histrionic phone call content.
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