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I've never claimed that it's a painless way to go out for everyone. However, I linked to information showing that it can definitely be painless and even a natural part of the dying process - and that forcing food or hydration can actually INCREASE SUFFERING in many dying patients. In fact, a vast majority of medical personnel who witness people dying in this manner have reported no indication of pain, and that it is a peaceful way to go.
And it was certainly peaceful, dignified, and pain free for my grandmother - a conclusion to her life that the hospice staff (people who really should know considering how many deaths they witness) told us is very common. Apparently it is because you can google the subject and fine page after page of info about this process.
Death isn't "one size fits all" but one thing it IS, is universal. The death rate is currently at 100 percent. My grandmother was conscious and communicative till literally hours before she passed away, and could have at any time asked for food or water or a change in her medical plan. She never did. She died at peace and pain free. The way she chose to allow her death to occur naturally is a valid choice for many patients and their families.
I have a friend who's only option may be the self starvation route. Those of us who care about her pray that's not her only option. But alas, she may not be covered under death with dignity laws -- which I believe ALL say that a patient must be TERMINALLY ill. And she is not.
She is (was) a VERY vibrant, happenin' chick. 67-years-old...and a get-up-and-go, physically active like a 30 year-old person. a dancer (by hobby) and accomplished in her main career of choice.
Then -- 8 months ago -- in a very freak accident -- she fell -- and broke her neck, and has been paralyzed from the neck down.
I know that she has contacted a major international group that promotes "death with dignity." She doesn't want to live is she can't get back to living independently. But since she's not TERMINALLY ILL.....
We'll just have to see.....and of course pray for recovery.
I have a friend who's only option may be the self starvation route. Those of us who care about her pray that's not her only option. But alas, she may not be covered under death with dignity laws -- which I believe ALL say that a patient must be TERMINALLY ill. And she is not.
She is (was) a VERY vibrant, happenin' chick. 67-years-old...and a get-up-and-go, physically active like a 30 year-old person. a dancer (by hobby) and accomplished in her main career of choice.
Then -- 8 months ago -- in a very freak accident -- she fell -- and broke her neck, and has been paralyzed from the neck down.
I know that she has contacted a major international group that promotes "death with dignity." She doesn't want to live is she can't get back to living independently. But since she's not TERMINALLY ILL.....
We'll just have to see.....and of course pray for recovery.
I'm sorry for your friend! I pray that she improves or that things work out for her as she wants them to.
I want to make a distinction though between "death by starvation" and a terminally ill person, whose body is being killed by something else, who chooses not to eat or drink for the last week or so of their dying process. They're not starving themselves to death - something else is killing their body. Their body simply doesn't want or need food or water after a certain point - they have accepted that death is imminent and they are simply taking the path of least resistance at this stage.
Food and drink wouldn't be prolonging their life - it would be prolonging their death, or in some cases creating symptoms and issues that they don't want to deal with as they are dying.
Somewhat of a segway from dementia. I worked with Mike Schiavo who's wife Terri was in a chronic vegatative state and her enteral feeding pump was court approved to be shut down to allow her to pass. I worked with dozens of similar cases including some patients actually electing to stop nutrition sustaining their end-stage condition. Due to loving ( yet extremely lay parents family) coupled with a well intended army of equally extreme people of religiosity it made a media circus out of the Schiavo case. In these extreme cases I support the court., but not in dementia cases. I remain morally opposed to suicide in the literal context .
Somewhat of a segway from dementia. I worked with Mike Schiavo who's wife Terri was in a chronic vegatative state and her enteral feeding pump was court approved to be shut down to allow her to pass. I worked with dozens of similar cases including some patients actually electing to stop nutrition sustaining their end-stage condition. Due to loving ( yet extremely lay parents family) coupled with a well intended army of equally extreme people of religiosity it made a media circus out of the Schiavo case. In these extreme cases I support the court., but not in dementia cases. I remain morally opposed to suicide in the literal context .
Interesting, and I agree with you. I only think withholding food and water should be in cases of the end stage of terminal illness and only with the ongoing consent of the person who is dying.
Interesting, and I agree with you. I only think withholding food and water should be in cases of the end stage of terminal illness and only with the ongoing consent of the person who is dying.
Yes, definitely the "bolded". That is where the slippery slope comes in with "suicide" in this particular conversation. I would never, ever want someone to commit "suicide" to spare me their care or cost. I had a friend who just recently lost her husband to Alzheimer's and I talked to her about a similar thread while her husband was alive and she also has a sister with Alzheimer's and their mother died of it also and she said at no point would she have wanted them to commit suicide to spare her their care and cost. She is in her 70's and I know it must have been hard for her. I can see that the individual has the choice but not an obligation which I am afraid they might end up feeling which is why any laws on this must be very clear and be overseen by a 3rd party.
Yes, definitely the "bolded". That is where the slippery slope comes in with "suicide" in this particular conversation. I would never, ever want someone to commit "suicide" to spare me their care or cost. I had a friend who just recently lost her husband to Alzheimer's and I talked to her about a similar thread while her husband was alive and she also has a sister with Alzheimer's and their mother died of it also and she said at no point would she have wanted them to commit suicide to spare her their care and cost. She is in her 70's and I know it must have been hard for her. I can see that the individual has the choice but not an obligation which I am afraid they might end up feeling which is why any laws on this must be very clear and be overseen by a 3rd party.
I totally agree.
My MIL has Alzheimers and yet overall her health is good. She may live for years with this (she's already had it three years). She is in an excellent memory care center, with other Alzheimer patients, and while their reality isn't ours, they are living lives that hold joy and interest and they can still give and receive love.
In 1998 the US supreme court ruled that food and water could be withheld from humans...it's called terminal sedation or passive euthanasia., and it's not always practiced on unconcious patients....That doesn't come even close to a painless way to go.
A concious, though cognitively disabled person (dementia etc) would feel dehydration the same as a healthy person would.
They will have siezures, their skin, tongues, and lips crack. They have nose bleeds. They feel the pangs of hunger and extreme thirst. Imagine if you couldn't have a drink for even one day how you would feel. Many of these sick people ask repeatedly for water.
After approx 6 to 8 days of water deprivation, blood pressure drops, and organs rapidly begin to fail....for about 1-3 days prior to death the hands and feet will feel extremely cold and look mottled.
Death by dehydration takes anywhere from 7 to 12 days, and is extremely agonizing.
Death row inmates die more humanely than many of our elderly or disabled.
They did this with my Dad as he died of Parkinsons and Dementia. His organs were already shutting down due to the Parkinsons. It took over three agonizing weeks for him to go. His innate will to live (actually to stay with my still living Mom) was too strong.
They did this with my Dad as he died of Parkinsons and Dementia. His organs were already shutting down due to the Parkinsons. It took over three agonizing weeks for him to go. His innate will to live (actually to stay with my still living Mom) was too strong.
I will never go that way.
Was it your dad's choice or someone else's?
My grandmother chose not to be force fed or given any hydration unless she asked for it or seemed to be in pain. She was conscious and alert for the ten or eleven days that she went without food or water and not only could she have received it at any time she wanted, we asked her several times a day if she wanted anything to eat or drink and she always said no - she was fine. Like I have shared, her mucous membranes (mouth, eyes, nose, lips) were kept moist. She absolutely did not want to eat or drink ANYTHING and adamantly refused it every time she was asked.
She wasn't trying to live longer. She was under hospice care and had accepted the reality of her upcoming and very near death. She just wanted to be kept clean and comfortable while nature took it's course.
They did this with my Dad as he died of Parkinsons and Dementia. His organs were already shutting down due to the Parkinsons. It took over three agonizing weeks for him to go. His innate will to live (actually to stay with my still living Mom) was too strong.
I will never go that way.
Did your dad have Lewy Body Disease? My dad has this, awful way to live. The mortality rate is 5-7 years after diagnoses. It's been 12 years for my dad. He is in and out of hospice, and has been in a nursing home for 5+ years. He can't move, is only sometimes cognizant.
He discussed he didn't want to live this way. However he doesn't believe in suicide, did not want to stop being fed when he was very ill at one point (given his last rites). He had said 'possibly' to not being fed when he gets worse.
This man has no quality of life. Lays in bed all day, can't do a thing for himself, can't talk or open his eyes. It's incredibly sad and very hard to see him like this. I know he doesn't want to live this way......
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