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Old 09-09-2015, 11:55 AM
 
39,109 posts, read 20,243,833 times
Reputation: 12659

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Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Adult children cannot be forced to take care of an aging parent.
Look up Savoy v. Savoy and the filial law.

It's rare, I'll grant you that but it can happen and nursing homes don't care where the money comes from and if living in one of the few states where the filial law is still on the books the adult children could find themselves in a lawsuit were the nursing home goes after them for payment.

Last edited by petch751; 09-09-2015 at 12:15 PM..

 
Old 09-09-2015, 12:04 PM
 
39,109 posts, read 20,243,833 times
Reputation: 12659
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Stand alone Medicare has no cap on out of pocket healthcare expenses. Medicare Advantage and most supplemental insurance does. Medicare insurance does not include nursing home care.
I don't believe I said that Medicare has a cap. "What I did say" is if the elder person needs more than 100 days in a specific period you run out of medicare benefits. If they use for example, 90 days of medicare benefits and go home and stay out of the hospital for 60 days you'll be fine, your benefits start from day one and you have another 100 days of medicare benefits.

That was not the case with my mother. She fell and broke her hip at home 15 days before the 60 days were up and she had 2 weeks left out of her 100 day benefits. She ran out of medicare benefits.

By the way middle-aged mom, I'm speaking from first hand "experience" of navigating the medicare, medicaid mess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Some people maintain long term nursing home insurance. Some of them out live the benefits.
She couldn't afford long term nursing home care insurance.

As many people say, they don't make enough to make a difference (plan and save) but make too much that they are denied help. Many middle class people are in this position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Some people take out a reversible mortgage.
We applied for medicaid instead. If she was denied we would have done this but the money wouldn't have lasted long.


Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Adult children cannot be forced to take care of an aging parent.
Look up the fillia law. It's active in our state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Medicaid and or hospitals may put a lien on a patient's property to get in line to be paid, once the property transfers.
yep, I've said that many times. Are you saying something new?

Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
There are many strategies to preserve estates, should this be desirable.
Obviously my mother didn't do that and the weight of her lack of planning will fall on us kids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
No one should rely on financial advise from anonymous posters on an internet forum. If there are assets, it makes sense to seek professional counsel from an law firm with an elder care practice.
Ssshhh, lets not talk about how many middle class kids are heading for a train wreck.

Last edited by petch751; 09-09-2015 at 12:28 PM..
 
Old 09-09-2015, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Barrington
45,575 posts, read 33,848,821 times
Reputation: 15159
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb at sea View Post
Insurance is what has driven up cost...Nursing care is expensive under our current plan....totally sucks. The solution is to GET RID of medical insurance...and providers will charge what folks can actually AFFORD to pay....not these exorbitant rates for little more than watching a patient in bed....
Are you confusing healthcare/medical with long term ( nursing home) care insurance?

Less than 8% of US adults have insurance for long term care and most of them are younger than 65.

Unlike the US, the rest of the developed world has universal healthcare. No two countries do universal healthcare alike. All rely on insurance, public, private and a combination of the two. What they do have in common, is the cost of healthcare is substantially less than in the US because government exerts more control over the cost and that their people are not nearly as fat as we are and therefore not as vulnerable to otherwise preventable disease, Diabetes, Heat Disease, High Blood Pressure and some Cancers.

In contrast, the US fiercly protects the interests of Big Pharm, hospitals and medical equipment manufacturer lobbies and has been doing so for serious decades.

When you have a Congress that denies Medicare the ability to negotiate the price of prescription drugs, you know Congress will not bite the wallets that feed them. It's about as bipartisan as it gets.
 
Old 09-09-2015, 12:22 PM
 
39,109 posts, read 20,243,833 times
Reputation: 12659
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post

When you have a Congress that denies Medicare the ability to negotiate the price of prescription drugs, you know Congress will not bite the wallets that feed them. It's about as bipartisan as it gets.
And now that Obamacare with expanded Medicaid is the law, they're all the happier. By the way, go back and read my reply to your post.
 
Old 09-09-2015, 12:31 PM
 
39,109 posts, read 20,243,833 times
Reputation: 12659
I do have to laugh though. Navigating the medicare and medicaid bureaucracy, getting documents together, learning what you can and can't do would push anyone over the edge. I went to and attorney to ask a question, he charged me $250 only to tell me that he would have charged $12,000 to do it for me. I wonder... if people think it's too hard to complete a simple voters ID form how will they get through this mess.

Someone started a thread asking what they could do not to become a burden. My answer is, start with getting your documents organized. Medicaid asked for a pound of flesh (lots of documents) and my mothers organization, well lets say, she wasn't. I had to dig through boxes and boxes and it was a nightmare to find what they wanted.
 
Old 09-09-2015, 12:37 PM
 
7,899 posts, read 7,236,434 times
Reputation: 6251
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Honey, I'll offer you a little advise, first become a critical thinker.
Secondly don't attack personally and with attitude unless you can handle it coming back at you.

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone, I've said this is a warning for our middle class who think they will be taken care of when they are old and need care. They better not assume and better learn about medicare and medicaid. Of course you being a Canadian citizen and not a United States citizen are butting in where it does not concern you.
Many of my neighbors in their 60's and above have put their homes in trust. I count 3 that I know of. There may be more.

If you really want your parents' money that bad and you spending in an inordinate amount time and effort on a public forum (where it is no avail) indicates this is so, maybe you should've offered to cover the legal fees for your mom to set it up so your inheritance is protected and you could continue to live in the house.

http://info.legalzoom.com/shelter-as...sts-23688.html

By the way, whining about inheritances comes off no better to most people than the people who are receiving welfare.
 
Old 09-09-2015, 12:37 PM
 
39,109 posts, read 20,243,833 times
Reputation: 12659
In the end, although I'm worried sick about finances and time needed to take care of her if we bring her home but mom is still with us and I am thankful. I'm going to go and visit her now and enjoy her company for awhile. I'm sure she'll do something or say something that will have us laughing as she always has lol. She may not have been financially savvy but she managed to pay her way and did take care of herself up until now and I respect that and damn she could cook a good meal in her day See ya! (for now)

Last edited by petch751; 09-09-2015 at 12:47 PM..
 
Old 09-09-2015, 12:50 PM
 
7,899 posts, read 7,236,434 times
Reputation: 6251
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Are you confusing healthcare/medical with long term ( nursing home) care insurance?

Less than 8% of US adults have insurance for long term care and most of them are younger than 65.

Unlike the US, the rest of the developed world has universal healthcare. No two countries do universal healthcare alike. All rely on insurance, public, private and a combination of the two. What they do have in common, is the cost of healthcare is substantially less than in the US because government exerts more control over the cost and that their people are not nearly as fat as we are and therefore not as vulnerable to otherwise preventable disease, Diabetes, Heat Disease, High Blood Pressure and some Cancers.

In contrast, the US fiercly protects the interests of Big Pharm, hospitals and medical equipment manufacturer lobbies and has been doing so for serious decades.

When you have a Congress that denies Medicare the ability to negotiate the price of prescription drugs, you know Congress will not bite the wallets that feed them. It's about as bipartisan as it gets.
A big part of the problem for insurance is low interest rates. Rates for auto, home, health, and long term care have all shot up. Insurance has to invest in short-term income-generating assets.

Quote:
According to the organization, between 40 and 60 percent of the cost of long term care insurance is based on the anticipated investment return. “The premiums people pay comprise about half of the formula with investment return making up the other half,” Slome shares. “For every one percent decline in interest rates, an insurer needs about a 10-to-15 percent rate increase in what coverage will cost.”
Low Interest Rates Affect Long Term Care Insurance Pricing American Association for Long Term Care Insurance
 
Old 09-09-2015, 12:59 PM
 
6,816 posts, read 7,206,712 times
Reputation: 9716
I don't know about the Savoy v. Savoy case...but THIS case is in PA where they definitely have used filial responsibility laws to go after kids and get the money....AND they don't even have to sue ALL the kids they can pick the one they want to go after.

The family name in this case is Pittas....and note the STATE SUPREME COURT LET THIS RULING STAND-REFUSED TO HEAR THE CASE-so he lost.
There is SOME lobbying to get the law UNdone. But I'm not sure how strong it is. Elder care lawyers want it repealed but I haven't seen any effective efforts or challenges.

-- Pennsylvania Son Stuck with Mom's $93,000 Nursing Home Bill:
Pennsylvania Son Stuck with Mom's $93,000 Nursing Home Bill, Court Rules - ABC News

-- Son Liable For Moms 93000 Nursing Home Bill Under Filial Responsibility Law:
Son Liable for Mom's $93,000 Nursing Home Bill Under 'Filial Responsibility' Law | ElderLawAnswers


OP, I get that the help for the middle income isn't what it should be. But in this case it seems your mother also didn't do some things SHE could have to protect what little she does have. It's not the 'systems' fault she didn't do those things.

I'm not trying to -- and don't want to -- argue with you. But responsibility should be spread around here. Let's be honest. So while you seem to be angry that there's not enough help for her.....she is partly at fault for her current situation. Is she not?

I'm glad you're using your apparent anger to try to "warm' people but being angry at us here, who are commenting, and having a conversation with you isn't productive. Is it?

Last edited by selhars; 09-09-2015 at 01:08 PM..
 
Old 09-09-2015, 01:09 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,352 posts, read 16,766,093 times
Reputation: 11458
If mom has an asset (house), that can be used to pay for her care, I don't understand what the problem is??

When I had to take on my own mother's care, I happily sold her (small) houses in Central and South Texas and put that money towards her care.... only when she was "spent out" did we go the Medicaid (ie paid for by taxpayers) route....

did that leave anything for my brother and me to inherit?? nope, not really.... but knowing that her own money was used for her own care allowed me to apply for Medicaid for her with a clear conscience..... something that would not have been possible had we sheltered her assets as a brother-in-law was encouraging me to do....
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