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Old 09-10-2015, 10:07 AM
 
39,180 posts, read 20,280,280 times
Reputation: 12711

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
This has happened to numerous family members of mine. People who were frugal and had saved a reasonable amount of money ended up with nothing to leave to family members.
I don't know what all the concern is about leaving to heirs. Your homes should be used for your needs. First to live in and later in life to help with extra needs. Kids expecting to inherit something is and should be disappointed. They worked for it, they should benefit first, if there is anything left then ok but not until then.

 
Old 09-10-2015, 10:09 AM
 
39,180 posts, read 20,280,280 times
Reputation: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
OP is angered because she erroneously believes Medical Assistance will pay mega bucks to keep her mother in a nursing home rather than pay a smaller amount to provide in-home care. She insists that someone who is poor will receive better services than her mother.

OP is flat out wrong regarding the mega bucks as well as the allegation that the poor receive better services, but there is no point in trying to educate someone like the OP. Sometimes you just have to sit back and let the poster make a fool of herself. SMH.
I'm witnessing it first hand but you'll tell me I'm wrong lol.
 
Old 09-10-2015, 10:12 AM
 
6,837 posts, read 7,228,323 times
Reputation: 9749
Quote:
The problem is, she is totally with it but is a high fall risk so she needs supervision. Only two of us kids are willing to help but we have jobs and responsibilities so to bring her home is too much for us to handle. We applied for Nursing Home Transition which will give us up to 20 hours a week in home care nurse assistance and put in a stair rider to get her up steps. That's all we asked for, we can do the rest. She was denied because she made just a little too much, $6 a month too much. Now she will stay in the nursing home, she pays all but $45 of her income and the state pays the rest which is $8555. So yes it would be much cheaper to bring her home but we can't do it on our own.
-- Try finding a used or refurbished stair rider. Try craigslist...see if you can find one. (A friend of mine got lucky and found a church that was getting rid of theirs.)

-- There's no 'church family' to turn to?

-- Can you barter for some things. What skills do you siblings and family members have that they could "trade" for whatever.....

-- Can any one pick up a part-time job temporarily to get the money for her needs?

If I may ask.....exactly what KIND and level of care/attention/companionship would she need at home.
(my mom had alzheimers so I know a bit about care needs -- and "activities of daily living")

-- If it's "only" that mom is a fall risk then she doesn't need 24 hour care. Can she live with one of you? And maybe only have an aide for a few hours a day, when none of you is/are there? Use her income and house sale to help pay for that, and stretch it as tight as you can. If she moves in with you would you need an in-home aide for 20 hours. Could you get by with less? Your utilities would go up a bit, but perhaps less than you already may be putting out to contribute to her shortfall.

You say mom is NOT mentally diminished....so she can cook for herself and needs no personal care?
Can she live alone -- except for the fall risk?

Perhaps if we knew more about her exact needs.....we -- your City Data Caregiving Board community -- could HELP you with some suggestions.

Can we focus the conversation on solutions for you?
 
Old 09-10-2015, 10:12 AM
 
39,180 posts, read 20,280,280 times
Reputation: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
OP is angered because she erroneously believes Medical Assistance will pay mega bucks to keep her mother in a nursing home rather than pay a smaller amount to provide in-home care. She insists that someone who is poor will receive better services than her mother.

OP is flat out wrong regarding the mega bucks as well as the allegation that the poor receive better services, but there is no point in trying to educate someone like the OP. Sometimes you just have to sit back and let the poster make a fool of herself. SMH.
Moms roommate's income was higher and she did not qualify for medicaid. While my mom got to stay in a very nice nursing home (I called the Ritz) while the roommate had to find a place she could afford. We visited her and it was nasty but that's what they could afford. I've witnessed first hand how those that have to pay can't afford it but poor people got to stay in the nice place.
 
Old 09-10-2015, 10:21 AM
 
39,180 posts, read 20,280,280 times
Reputation: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars View Post
-- Try finding a used or refurbished stair rider. Try craigslist...see if you can find one. (A friend of mine got lucky and found a church that was getting rid of theirs.)

-- There's no 'church family' to turn to?

-- Can you barter for some things. What skills do you siblings and family members have that they could "trade" for whatever.....

-- Can any one pick up a part-time job temporarily to get the money for her needs?

If I may ask.....exactly what KIND and level of care/attention/companionship would she need at home.
(my mom had alzheimers so I know a bit about care needs -- and "activities of daily living")

-- If it's "only" that mom is a fall risk then she doesn't need 24 hour care. Can she live with one of you? And maybe only have an aide for a few hours a day, when none of you is/are there?

You say mom is NOT mentally diminished....so she can cook for herself and needs no personal care?
Can she live alone -- except for the fall risk?

Perhaps if we knew more about her exact needs.....we your city data community could HELP you with some suggestions.

Can we focus the conversation on solutions for you?
selhars I appreciate your suggestions but I've been through it all. She can't afford to buy a star climber. If that was the real issue I would buy it for her and bring her home but I have responsibilities and family too. I can't be there all the time. She had a stroke, then fell and after the stroke broke her hip. After that she fell again in occupational therapy and fractured her L2 vertebra then had surgery for that.

She's right handed and her right arm and hand she has trouble with. She tries like hell though, I'll give her credit for that for sure. When she was home we tried to get her to make her morning coffee. We had milk and sugar everywhere. She cried, we ended up laughing our butts off, we spent a lot of time laughing at her disasters lol but she kept trying and same thing, so no, I would not trust her to try cooking she might burn the place down. I've taken her out to eat and thought she was eating very well. I've learned to look under the table to assess how much actually got into her mouth. She's a good sport, although she gets frustrated a lot she laughs too and keeps trying.
 
Old 09-10-2015, 10:22 AM
 
2,632 posts, read 3,360,108 times
Reputation: 6961
If truly the ONLY reason she is in a nursing home is because she is a fall risk, then there is a solution.

Sell the house... as soon as possible before all of its value is spent on the Nursing Home stay.

She moves to a small wheelchair accessible apartment in a wheelchair accessible building and uses a wheelchair for most of her mobility. Her frequent falls will qualify her for a wheelchair from Medicare/Medicaid - which should be lightweight, best quality Medicare will cover (and these can be quite good). She will propel herself in the wheelchair. She needs to be taken to the BEST local rehabilitation center/hospital you can find to do her evaluation for a good wheelchair. You didn't say her arms or cognitive abilities were compromised, so this can work. She probably also has a walker and a cane at home for some use, but this will be discouraged. She can be taught by the physical therapists and occupational therapists (who will come for home visits) how to do transfers safely to bed, to the toilet, to the shower. She has an elevated toilet seat in the bathroom and a shower bench. This is how my father lives, except his house has been made somewhat wheelchair accessible.

If your Mom's income is low enough that she qualifies for Medicaid, it is likely that she still qualifies for some home assistance. You/she may pay for infrequent additional homecare services to help her with a shower once or twice a week and do light cleaning around the house. Meals on wheels supplies meals. Family takes her to all doctors appointments. Talk to all of her friends/church and set up a schedule for drop by friend visits. She orders food to be delivered, Amazon for other stuff (pay for Amazon prime). Family has a schedule for check-in phone calls daily, home visits frequently.

Check the Department of Aging in your community to make sure there isn't anything you are missing in terms of resources. You check out the surrounding towns, and see if one is known for having BETTER resources for their seniors. For example, my Dad's town has very affordable senior only apartment buildings that are wheelchair accessible, free ride service for seniors, free meals on wheels, and if you are disabled (as your Mom now is) some free home visits to help with basic cleaning etc... My Dad is above all of the income limits like your middle class Mom but in his community he STILL gets all of these for free. And his income is higher than your Mom's so he doesn't qualify for Medicaid. So your Mom will likely still qualify for more.

This takes research, but is possible to find.

Or is there something else here that I'm missing?

If you focused your CD energies on this, I'm sure you will succeed. Just try to be a little bit more polite when you are working with providers.... if you want them to help you. It is best not to alienate everyone.
 
Old 09-10-2015, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
233 posts, read 189,772 times
Reputation: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Excellent post Kathryn, I hope people really read it. Many people are heading into this very disaster, elderly parents and their kids and they don't even know it. I'm not sure why they would want to ignore the oncoming train wreck.

This middle class family kids isn't as fortunate. My mom didn't save for her elderly years. My dad passed when my mom was in her 40's, mom was not college educated but she managed to support herself all these years without help from anyone or government. Now that she can no longer work and needs help there is no help for her. She is just barely above the limit.

We kids have a decision to make. Although she is totally with it mentally, if we keep her in the nursing home they take all but $45 of her income, we sell the house and pay the government and us kids can have our lives knowing that mom is being taken care of and we won't have to put our own jobs, finances and retirement at risk.

If we bring her home it will be very disruptive to our lives, our lives will be centered around taking care of her needs but not our needs. To get additional help it will cost us a lot of money since we can't do it all and have jobs and family of our own.

If you look into this further you'll find that the government not only pays the medical bills for the poor, the government will give the poor the additional help the family needs to bring their parents home. Even Obamacare is tiered. Why the sudden drop off I don't know when she has family that is willing to do what they can if they could just get a little help.
I understand and sympathize with your situation. I agree with you that it makes no sense to pay exorbitant prices for nursing care and yet they won't fund a cheaper home health plan that would allow your mother to come home with you. The logic is not there. I could NOT afford to take care of my parents from home right now if they needed me to as we do not have that type of disposable income. We are lucky to take care of ourselves and our kids.

Our home is also not big enough and I couldn't afford an add-on construction either. We are middle-class and so are my parents. Also, some nursing homes are not very good. I hope your mother is in a good one. I just thank God my parents are somewhat healthy. I am in my 30's but my parents had kids when they were older than was traditional at the time. They are in their 70's! Dad has COPD but has it pretty well-controlled for now and my Mom is a saint taking care of him even though she has LUPUS and another autoimmune disorder I can't even spell right.

They are able to live on their own but Mom has taken over the role of driving as Dad can't drive long distances due to being on oxygen. They still are able to get around and get groceries, go to doctor's appointments, and even do lawn work! (We have offered to do the lawn care...they enjoy doing it as they say it's good exercise) Dad still does what he can. I don't know what it will be like in 10 years for my parents but I do know I could not afford to take care of them from home. I also know that they do NOT want to go to a nursing home. I'm not sure what I would do. I guess i will figure it out when the time comes or if the time comes. I think they both hope they pass before their health is that bad. I know I hope i pass before severe health enters my life. It doesn't always work that way.

You have my utmost sympathy and regards. I do think the system needs to be fixed for elderly people and to help people that cannot afford these high prices and that includes middle class. I drive by a swanky retirement community in my local town sometimes and always think to myself that those people are very, very lucky and blessed to have the money to pay for that. I know some of them have rich children paying for it. I certainly couldn't afford it for my parents. Good luck with this and please don't forget to take care of yourself during all this. Your family at home needs you too. Your mom probably understands in her heart of hearts and knows you love her very much and do as much as you can.
 
Old 09-10-2015, 10:32 AM
 
2,632 posts, read 3,360,108 times
Reputation: 6961
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
selhars I appreciate your suggestions but I've been through it all. She can't afford to buy a star climber. If that was the real issue I would buy it for her and bring her home but I have responsibilities and family too. I can't be there all the time. She had a stroke, then fell and after the stroke broke her hip. After that she fell again in occupational therapy and fractured her L2 vertebra then had surgery for that. She's right handed and her right arm and hand she has trouble with. She tries like hell though, I'll give her credit for that for sure. When she was home we tried to get her to make her morning coffee. We had milk and sugar everywhere. She cried, we ended up laughing our butts off, we spent a lot of time laughing at her disasters lol but she kept trying and same thing, so no, I would not trust her to try cooking she might burn the place down.
They sell used stair climbers on craigslist frequently for a low price, and they can be installed cheaply by a handyman. But a house with stairs is still inappropriate for your Mom anyway. And if she cannot propel herself in a wheelchair now, she cannot live alone. But you know that.

And with this new information that you provided on her post-stroke, arm trouble, judgment problems (if you worry she will burn the place down) it does sound like a nursing home may be where she is needed because she cannot live alone. You say you are unable to take her into your house - which is your choice - or pay for 24 hours care, then unfortunately the nursing home is the right place for her.

It is not true that our country pays for the poor to stay at home with 24 hours care with the needs that your mother now has. It also costs much more than $3000 to stay at home with 24hr care. It is also incredibly challenging to organize such care, even if you have assistance/resources. Care can poor quality, can be unreliable and can cancel suddenly, can steal from you, can take advantage or abuse you, needs to be trained, quits, needs to be re-hired. It is a part-time job just to manage the home help if you need 24hr help.

Many of us reach this juncture with our parents. It is painful. It is hard. It makes us angry too.

I'm sorry you are dealing with this.
 
Old 09-10-2015, 10:32 AM
 
39,180 posts, read 20,280,280 times
Reputation: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfcambridge View Post
If truly the ONLY reason she is in a nursing home is because she is a fall risk, then there is a solution.

Sell the house... as soon as possible before all of its value is spent on the Nursing Home stay.

She moves to a small wheelchair accessible apartment in a wheelchair accessible building and uses a wheelchair for most of her mobility. Her frequent falls will qualify her for a wheelchair from Medicare/Medicaid - which should be lightweight, best quality Medicare will cover (and these can be quite good). She will propel herself in the wheelchair. She needs to be taken to the BEST local rehabilitation center/hospital you can find to do her evaluation for a good wheelchair. You didn't say her arms or cognitive abilities were compromised, so this can work. She probably also has a walker and a cane at home for some use, but this will be discouraged. She can be taught by the physical therapists and occupational therapists (who will come for home visits) how to do transfers safely to bed, to the toilet, to the shower. She has an elevated toilet seat in the bathroom and a shower bench. This is how my father lives, except his house has been made somewhat wheelchair accessible.

If your Mom's income is low enough that she qualifies for Medicaid, it is likely that she still qualifies for some home assistance. You/she may pay for infrequent additional homecare services to help her with a shower once or twice a week and do light cleaning around the house. Meals on wheels supplies meals. Family takes her to all doctors appointments. Talk to all of her friends/church and set up a schedule for drop by friend visits. She orders food to be delivered, Amazon for other stuff (pay for Amazon prime). Family has a schedule for check-in phone calls daily, home visits frequently.

Check the Department of Aging in your community to make sure there isn't anything you are missing in terms of resources. You check out the surrounding towns, and see if one is known for having BETTER resources for their seniors. For example, my Dad's town has very affordable senior only apartment buildings that are wheelchair accessible, free ride service for seniors, free meals on wheels, and if you are disabled (as your Mom now is) some free home visits to help with basic cleaning etc... My Dad is above all of the income limits like your middle class Mom but in his community he STILL gets all of these for free. And his income is higher than your Mom's so he doesn't qualify for Medicaid. So your Mom will likely still qualify for more.

This takes research, but is possible to find.

Or is there something else here that I'm missing?

If you focused your CD energies on this, I'm sure you will succeed. Just try to be a little bit more polite when you are working with providers.... if you want them to help you. It is best not to alienate everyone.
Do you actually think I have not looked into everything but we kept running into walls and no's.

I've given up! Since we are so concerned about the poor but not the middle class turned poor she'll stay. Since we want to remain blind to the stupidity of the government, they've back our family into the wall and the tax payer can pay the bill. We'll sell the house and the government will take the money. All is well. But Joe Smo poor or cuz Ronnie will have his rent paid for, home health care assistance, food, medical needs, home modifications all paid for.
 
Old 09-10-2015, 10:36 AM
 
6,837 posts, read 7,228,323 times
Reputation: 9749
Quote:
And with this new information that you provided on her post-stroke, arm trouble, judgment problems (if you worry she will burn the place down) it does sound like a nursing home may be where she is needed because she cannot live alone. You say you are unable to take her into your house - which is your choice - or pay for 24 hours care, then unfortunately the nursing home is the right place for her.
1) I sympathize with you OP...but I have to agree with sfcambridge on this. A nursing home seems to be where your mom needs to be. She needs more than the 20 hours you were hoping she'd get. Outside of those 20 hours, would your family have been able to cover her? You said you had her at home and that didn't work out.....would the 20 hours of an aide have made the difference?

Also perhaps you can double check... if they raise the medicaid threshold, or I guess I should say -- the threshold for the help you requested -- and her her Soc Sec. doesn't go up...she MIGHT eventually qualify. There are already reports about there being no COLA next year. (I can't believe with the cost of food going up like it is....but that's the expectation. No COLA)

2) I don't get the math and how lawmakers do some of their "figuring."

We hear a lot about the gun lobby, and environmental lobby, and big pharma....I think the nursing home lobby is a hidden, lobby that is perhaps just as strong...but under the radar. Lord, knows the BIG nursing home operators have the money to pay to get their side heard and write legislation in state capitals and Washington.

I'm NOT turning this into a political discussion....just musing about why the math and policies seem so skewed from what might be good CAREGIVING and best for the person who needs the care.

What am I missing? Isn't it indeed CHEAPER for the state to keep people at home? What don't lawmakers get about that...or what am I NOT seeing about why that's NOT better financially for tax payers...AND the economy. Because every person who stays at home needs a caregiver.....so that's MORE people employed...instead of one aide for every 10 people in a home. But then again IF people live longer at home...and the average nursing home stay is less than two years (and even less for terminal patients) -- then maybe it IS cheaper to pay more person, have them die off quicker...than pay less per person per year...but have them live years longer.

Again, I'm not trying to go political just trying to figure it out from the CARE point of view.

Last edited by selhars; 09-10-2015 at 10:51 AM..
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