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Old 09-08-2015, 10:44 AM
 
39,109 posts, read 20,248,870 times
Reputation: 12659

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfcambridge View Post
Reform is needed there, no doubt.

You never know when you will transition from one group to another.


The becoming a little less self centered is the hardest part.
A little less self centered? When we pay up the wazoo and are told that if we transition from one group to another that we will be helped turns out to be one big fat lie tell me to be a little less self centered. Look how that turned out for my mother. I'm sure we know a lot of people who bust ass but when they fall on hard times they are told no.

Maybe the people who could care less about supporting themselves because we the tax payer will pay their way should be "a little less self centered".

I am not my alcoholic cuz keeper, he's a grown man who is abusive toward woman, cowers to other men and living on the tax payer dole. Yep, that's the kind of people you are caring about, people who could care less about you but we are expected to care about them. So please stop lecturing people like the middle class who've paid their way.

Last edited by petch751; 09-08-2015 at 11:35 AM..

 
Old 09-08-2015, 10:47 AM
 
2,632 posts, read 3,355,268 times
Reputation: 6961
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Well, I'm glad the working poor can afford health insurance. As the working middle class, we can barely afford it - and we get no subsidies. Not only that, many of us experienced our policy premiums DOUBLING - with less coverage. We're not getting a subsidy, we're paying other peoples' subsidies.

With no tax writeoffs for our charitable donation either. Just higher taxes in fact. On top of higher premiums. And higher deductibles.
But you may be able to deduct your premiums as a medical expense if your income is lower as you imply and your health costs are high.

And you are still missing the big point. Your out of pocket costs are higher, but you do have better health insurance coverage. You are now insured for medical and behavioral care at equal amounts without prejudice against pre-existing conditions. You don't even realize so far, because you have perhaps been lucky, how valuable this new coverage is. It is staggering valuable. If you lose your job, the Marketplace will still sell insurance to you... likely much cheaper than your Cobra options... that will not hold your pre-existing conditions against you. That did not exist before, and the significance of this is underestimated by those who haven't been affected by it. I know people in poverty because of their lack of coverage for pre-existing conditions in the past and they suffered enormous expenses (with no cap!) until they spent all their resources and are now disabled on Medicaid.

Keep speaking up that you think there should be more subsidy for higher levels of income, if you think the subsidies are unfair. Keep speaking up about preventing waste and inefficiency and money making insurance companies in health care if you think it is too expensive.

Also realize that your own personal health care is the most important investment you should be making every month.

I know someone who lived without health insurance for many years, stated she didn't really need it because she was healthy and it was too expensive. When I helped her sign up for an Obamacare plan, and she was looking at the monthly premiums she was wide-eyed. I agreed with her that it was a significant expense. But then she admitted the premiums were lower than her car insurance. Her car insurance....... and then she said, "If I can afford to pay that amount for my car, I should be able to afford to pay that much for ourselves."

What are our priorities as an individual and as a society for health care? That's what we are talking about.

And we haven't even gone down the road of eldercare yet. That is a crisis for the world.

And reminds me, I need to donate more to research into curing Alzheimer's disease...
 
Old 09-08-2015, 10:55 AM
 
39,109 posts, read 20,248,870 times
Reputation: 12659
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Well, I'm glad the working poor can afford health insurance. As the working middle class, we can barely afford it - and we get no subsidies. Not only that, many of us experienced our policy premiums DOUBLING - with less coverage. We're not getting a subsidy, we're paying other peoples' subsidies.

With no tax writeoffs for our charitable donation either. Just higher taxes in fact. On top of higher premiums. And higher deductibles.
This is true. Your insurance premiums increased but no subsidies. As I said before, as I learn more I'm finding that its better to have low income especially with Obamacare. Even the wealthy can get Obamacare subsidies but the middle class who depend on income will pay higher premiums.
 
Old 09-08-2015, 11:01 AM
 
39,109 posts, read 20,248,870 times
Reputation: 12659
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfcambridge View Post
But you may be able to deduct your premiums as a medical expense if your income is lower as you imply and your health costs are high.

And you are still missing the big point. Your out of pocket costs are higher, but you do have better health insurance coverage.
Boy you really bought the party line didn't you? My insurance is NOT better. It's WORSE and I pay more for it and if I get sick I'll pay even more. But hey at 55 years old I have maternity care <sarcasm> Wahoo, the difference (deductions) doesn't even cover the INCREASE in monthly premiums.

It is you who is being self centered because Obamacare is good for you so now you try to tout it like it's the best thing. You could care less about the people it is hurting. Nothing like telling people who are paying out the ass that paying more is good for them so you can get your subsidy. If that isn't "self centered" what is?
 
Old 09-08-2015, 11:05 AM
 
39,109 posts, read 20,248,870 times
Reputation: 12659
I wonder, if you can't afford to pay premiums how in the hell can people be expected to pay the deductible. Donald Trump is right, it's catastrophic insurance, not healthcare insurance for the middle class. But hey, alchy cuz and the poor won't have to worry about it.

The IRS allows you to deduct qualified medical expenses that exceed 10% of your adjusted gross income for the year. Your adjusted gross income (AGI) is your taxable income minus any adjustments to income such as deductions, contributions to a traditional IRA and student loan interest.

For example, if you have a modified adjusted gross income of $45,000 and $5,475 of medical expenses, you would multiply $45,000 by 0.10 (10 percent) to find that only expenses exceeding $4,500 can be deducted. This leaves you with a medical expense deduction of $975 (5,475 - 4,500).
 
Old 09-08-2015, 11:10 AM
 
39,109 posts, read 20,248,870 times
Reputation: 12659
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfcambridge View Post
Keep speaking up about preventing waste and inefficiency and money making insurance companies in health care if you think it is too expensive.
Subsidizing alcholic cuz who is out there causing problems is waste but hey... "he's poor" never mind that he can't hold a job because he shows up drunk, never mind that he contributes nothing of benefit to himself let alone society but we the middle class must bust ass and pay more to keep him going to do what? Cause more problems for society, out there boozing and stone drunk. You've paid for his rehab 3 times, the last time (this past spring) he chose rehab over going to jail.

The first time around my aunt obviously didn't marry well. This apple didn't fall far from the tree, you're supporting his dead beat dad. They're probably out there slamming down another laughing it up, at the middle class fools out there working your tail off.

He's an embarrassment to our family, we tried to help him on our dime but he wouldn't help himself, he took and lied. I'd apologize to the taxpayer for his existence but I had nothing to do with it. And he has no intension of changing his ways, why should he, you the tax payer feed him, house him and take care of him.

He loves Obama and also thinks the rich should pay "their fair share" translation, more so he can get more free stuff. That's audacity.

Last edited by petch751; 09-08-2015 at 11:48 AM..
 
Old 09-08-2015, 11:26 AM
 
225 posts, read 335,672 times
Reputation: 359
Yep, my grandmother went through that. She had to spend all of her life savings (probably close to $100K) on a nursing house for about 20 years until it was all gone, then she could stay there for free.
What was the point in saving that money her whole life? There was no point...
 
Old 09-08-2015, 11:41 AM
 
39,109 posts, read 20,248,870 times
Reputation: 12659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sminthian View Post
Yep, my grandmother went through that. She had to spend all of her life savings (probably close to $100K) on a nursing house for about 20 years until it was all gone, then she could stay there for free.
What was the point in saving that money her whole life? There was no point...
Yep and having a home they come for recovery but the poor who don't own a house don't have anything to come for. As I said looking back the house would not be in her name for the 5 year look back so we could at least borrow against it to pay for home care. Yes she would have debt and sold and the debt paid in full when she passes. As it stands, they'll take her house, but no help to go home. The poor will get free medical care and money to pay for home care. And we are so concerned about the poor why? Everything is paid for. how much more do they want you to pay for?

The more I learn the more I understand that the middle class who are trying to do "the right thing", the people not getting assistance or subsidies, paying the bill are the fools.

Last edited by petch751; 09-08-2015 at 11:58 AM..
 
Old 09-08-2015, 11:56 AM
 
6,819 posts, read 7,209,439 times
Reputation: 9719
Are you saying you're mom can't sell her house.....get the money spend in on HER CARE. And then qualify for Medicaid?

If you document every step and every dollar spent, I think you all WOULD be able to do that.

1) If you sell the house and get two to three years worth of care out of it depending on how long she lives you might still have money left over, and never even need to apply for Medicaid. If you see that she'll outlives the money then you apply. I KNOW there's a 5 year look back. That's why you document every dime spent.

That said do I necessarily think a person should be dirt poor to have to qualify for help -- uh absolutely not.

I always recommend people see an eldercare attorney who knows Medicaid and estate planning. But people balk at the cost. Well, there are rules the rich use to protect what they have, and those who aren't rich can you those same rules.

You have to ask yourself...WHATEVER amount you have -- is it enough to warrant doing what you need to do to protect it -- or not? Paying 10K to protect even 50K sounds like a plan to me. That's better than being left with nothing.
 
Old 09-08-2015, 11:56 AM
 
7,903 posts, read 7,238,587 times
Reputation: 6258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sminthian View Post
Yep, my grandmother went through that. She had to spend all of her life savings (probably close to $100K) on a nursing house for about 20 years until it was all gone, then she could stay there for free.
What was the point in saving that money her whole life? There was no point...
If you're not on Medicaid, you have a greater choice of nursing homes that will accept you. Some will reserve a limited number of beds. Some will not accept any at all.
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