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Old 02-09-2016, 02:44 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,057,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Oh I know - it's sort of ridiculous.

After all this with my inlaws (and my parents to some extent though they've used better judgment), my husband and I made this pact - we're in our fifties:

We may buy a place with a couple of acres, but it has to be within 20 minutes of good medical facilities. Also, the MINUTE either of us becomes chronically ill or incapacitated, we will sell that place and move to a zero lot line sort of house IN TOWN within minutes of healthcare facilities. Regardless of that, if both of us make it to age 65 without significant health issues, we will still move to that sort of living situation, before the inevitable happens.

My parents did a bit better than my inlaws - even though they waited till they were about 72 to move from acreage out in the country to a smaller house in a decent town with good medical care. They had to live the inconvenience to really understand that it was unworkable in the long run. Still - better late than never.
Irony: One of my sets of grandparents had a long livelihood of ranching and farming. Neither kid wanted to have anything to do with it. So when they reached retirement age (in their case, they had a plan of retirement = 67) they sold all but a small family legacy acreage. Then what did they do? They moved into town. No, not the local podunk. They moved right into Megalopolis, more inner ring than my parents or even us now. That was neat. Going to their house meant going into The City. It was great growing up that way, early on, going to see them out at their country place then later doing the City thing, right as I got just old enough to appreciate it.

I know they were highly unusual and not many country people let alone most American suburbanites would take such a path. I suppose they were sort of eggheadish and intellectual compared with most people found in the country and suburbs.
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Old 02-09-2016, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,300 posts, read 35,841,586 times
Reputation: 62662
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
Having a parent live with me is not an option. I work full time and am not home enough to care for a cat, much less an elderly parent. Not sure what filial responsibility states have to do with it.
I feel your pain.

I'll go one step further.

I hope and pray my dad outlives my mom, because while I could live with my dad (if he needed to move in with us - my husband and I are in agreement that we could make this work), there is NO WAY I could accommodate my mother.

In fact, prior to getting married, my husband and I both agreed FORMALLY (not with a contract but with a very serious discussion) that we would never move either of our mothers in with us.

This was because both our mothers have a long history of untreated mental illness. I mean, legit mental illness. Since they refused treatment (and their husbands enabled this), they were both basically impossible to live with, to reason with, to have a normal sort of relationship with.

That being said, we did actually try to let my mother in law live with us TEMPORARILY - for about three months - that's the time frame we thought it would be, due to my father in law needing heart surgery and recovery time, and due to the fact that she simply couldn't live alone or take care of herself.

Hah. You know how long she lived in our house? Two weeks. By the end of two weeks, my husband and I were both about to have a nervous breakdown. AND I WASN'T EVEN WORKING. Talk about high maintenance - OMG. She had early Alzheimer's. This meant that she was able to get up, walk around, do simple things like get ready for bed herself, feed herself, go to the bathroom herself, that sort of thing. But she couldn't be left alone for any length of time because she would do things like try to take a bath , or cook something , and besides that, she didn't WANT to be left alone. She wanted to be waited on hand and foot 24/7. I am serious. I should have been able to leave her at the house while I went to the grocery store, but NO. She wanted to go with me - which was horrible because she moved like a sloth at best, and there was no way she could physically make it through the grocery store. But she didn't want to be left alone - she truly expected someone to sit with her and entertain her, bring her things, talk with her, adjust her pillow, adjust her afghan, adjust the thermostat, bring her a cup of tea, change the channel, take her blood pressure, yada yada yada, all day every day. She got mad when it was bed time and we told her she needed to go to bed! It was in the middle of the night, when we were asleep, that she'd do things like try to cook (leaving the burners on), or try to get a cup of tea (leaving the faucet running in the kitchen), or try to take a bath (at the opposite end of the house), or inexplicably let the dogs out the front door (no fence) - it was amazing the mischief she could get into in the six hours that we were trying to sleep.

One day my husband and I had all sorts of errands to run. It was literally about 100 degrees outside. Our errands included about six stops and running in and out of various buildings and appointments. We needed to do this by ourselves. Her husband was in the hospital but not in ICU. We decided that if she was going to just sit somewhere, she may as well sit with him (she had wanted to go see him every day anyway). So we told her, "We're taking you to the hospital to sit with your husband and we're going to come back and get you in four hours." That went over like a lead balloon. She didn't want to go sit at the hospital, even though he was in a comfortable private room. She wanted to go with us. We said, "But we have to get in and out of the car about six times, and do a lot of running around. You know you can't move quickly and this will be too hard on you." She said, "I don't want to go sit at the hospital - I would rather sit in the car and wait for you!" WHAT. No way. We said, "It's too hot outside for you to wait in the car for us." (there is no way we'd ever leave the car running with her in it - she was likely to decide she wanted to drive somewhere.) Oh, she was mad. She was furious! She pouted and griped the entire way to the hospital, and the entire time she was there, and when we picked her up. Her husband said, "Please don't bring her back here for any length of time - I can't handle her. She wants something constantly - a cup of coffee, a magazine, snacks, you name it. I'm sick. I can't take care of her." WHAT ON EARTH. So basically her needs were holding us hostage, and she wasn't even sick - she was just incredibly demanding and it was hard to fuss at her because she did have Alzheimer's, so we felt guilty and helpless trying to reason with her.

That day, as I was helping her into the car - and she was furiously giving me the silent treatment and glaring at me - I dropped my brand new phone as I tried to navigate helping her - and shattered the glass display, which cost me over $100 to get fixed. Grrrrrr. It was just one thing after another - dogs escaping, faucets left on in the middle of the night, burners left on, and the incessant pouting and demanding attention. We felt sorry for her but we just couldn't do enough for her. It was futile on our part.

By the next week, she was in assisted living and she and her husband were both mad about it but TOO BAD.
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Old 02-09-2016, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,300 posts, read 35,841,586 times
Reputation: 62662
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly View Post
Irony: One of my sets of grandparents had a long livelihood of ranching and farming. Neither kid wanted to have anything to do with it. So when they reached retirement age (in their case, they had a plan of retirement = 67) they sold all but a small family legacy acreage. Then what did they do? They moved into town. No, not the local podunk. They moved right into Megalopolis, more inner ring than my parents or even us now. That was neat. Going to their house meant going into The City. It was great growing up that way, early on, going to see them out at their country place then later doing the City thing, right as I got just old enough to appreciate it.

I know they were highly unusual and not many country people let alone most American suburbanites would take such a path. I suppose they were sort of eggheadish and intellectual compared with most people found in the country and suburbs.
Hey, that's pretty cool.

My grandmother was sort of like that. Get what she did!

When she was in her late seventies, she sold her little house in the country, and bought a cute, brand new house (had it built in fact) in the suburbs of a small city. In fact, her house was two blocks from my house and five minutes from my parents' house! Yes, at age 76 or so, she moved out of the country and out of the house she had lived in for over fifty years, right into the middle of town and into a brand spanking new house, which she LOVED. It had a tiny yard which was perfect for her - she loved puttering around with plants but could no longer take care of the older home and large lot she had in her little country setting.

She immediately joined the Methodist church in town (she and her parents were charter members of the tiny Methodist church in the tiny country town she'd grown up in), and joined a Sunday School class and immediately got involved with all those activities. Within a few months, she had more going on than some people who had lived there all their lives!

We had about five really good years with her - years that she was active, years she got to know her great grandkids, years that we all enjoyed as a multigenerational family.

Then she got bone cancer. And guess what - her family and community were there for her. She was able to live independently till the last few months of her life - because we lived close by, she had a yard and new house that was easy to maintain or pay someone to maintain, or have family come maintain, and medical facilities were close at hand. She didn't move in with my parents till she was under hospice care and had only a few months to live.

It was a good ending to a good life.
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Old 02-09-2016, 02:59 PM
 
25,809 posts, read 32,790,236 times
Reputation: 31713
Quote:
Originally Posted by historyfan View Post
Someone more savvy than I will need explain filial responsibility.
But I believe it means children are liable to pay for parents' care, if they have the means.
For impoverished parents, yes possibly, depending on the circumstances. Such laws are rarely ever used today however.
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Old 02-09-2016, 03:16 PM
 
3,758 posts, read 10,595,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
Having a parent live with me is not an option. I work full time and am not home enough to care for a cat, much less an elderly parent. Not sure what filial responsibility states have to do with it.
As others have pointed out - filial responsibility refers to some laws in some states that basically say an impoverished parent is the responsibility of the children... such that the state can go after the children to recover money spent on Medicaid (most likely for nursing home care) of the parent.

Those people truly have no other legal choice but to provide care for their parent. (i.e. either provide care before death, or be billed for what the state provided, after death).

The rest of us all have some choice, whether we choose to admit it or not. After all, there are plenty of children who (for perfectly valid reasons) say "let 'em hang" and do nothing for their parents.

Which means that's totally an option, just one that most of the folks on this board refuse to take, for their own reasons.
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Old 02-09-2016, 03:24 PM
 
25,809 posts, read 32,790,236 times
Reputation: 31713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Briolat21 View Post
As others have pointed out - filial responsibility refers to some laws in some states that basically say an impoverished parent is the responsibility of the children... such that the state can go after the children to recover money spent on Medicaid (most likely for nursing home care) of the parent.

Those people truly have no other legal choice but to provide care for their parent. (i.e. either provide care before death, or be billed for what the state provided, after death).

The rest of us all have some choice, whether we choose to admit it or not. After all, there are plenty of children who (for perfectly valid reasons) say "let 'em hang" and do nothing for their parents.

Which means that's totally an option, just one that most of the folks on this board refuse to take, for their own reasons.
I know what the term means...it would not affect me. (Medicaid recipients are excluded from filial law in my state). These laws are rarely ever used. The one case that keeps coming up is the 2012 case where the lady left the nursing home and moved to Greece, sticking her son with the bill. Sorry to say it, but her son was a bit of an idiot.
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Old 02-09-2016, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
12,304 posts, read 10,702,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I hope you've made it very clear to your parents and your brother that they shouldn't expect any hands on care from you. If not, please do so immediately. They deserve to know where you stand on this long before the situation may arise.
I've told my mother countless times that she will not be living with me nor will I take care of her as she ages. She thinks I'm kidding! Over and over she has told me I will change my mind. I've been told that she will just show up on my doorstep. I remind her that my house is locked at all times and I have dogs. She's gone as far as to say she's moving in with me by such and such a date. My response is ALWAYS that I will be moving out on that date and taking my husband and furkids with me. She thinks I'm being funny. I'm as serious as cancer in a dead man.

Periodically, she attempts to look at houses where I live...on my street! I live 3+ hours away for several reasons. She does NOT get it! She's got a case of denial as long as the Nile. So people can tell their parents no for years and it falls on deaf ears.
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Old 02-10-2016, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,300 posts, read 35,841,586 times
Reputation: 62662
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts View Post
I've told my mother countless times that she will not be living with me nor will I take care of her as she ages. She thinks I'm kidding! Over and over she has told me I will change my mind. I've been told that she will just show up on my doorstep. I remind her that my house is locked at all times and I have dogs. She's gone as far as to say she's moving in with me by such and such a date. My response is ALWAYS that I will be moving out on that date and taking my husband and furkids with me. She thinks I'm being funny. I'm as serious as cancer in a dead man.

Periodically, she attempts to look at houses where I live...on my street! I live 3+ hours away for several reasons. She does NOT get it! She's got a case of denial as long as the Nile. So people can tell their parents no for years and it falls on deaf ears.
If you have siblings, I hope you've told them this as well. That point was included in my remark to the other person.
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Old 02-10-2016, 12:33 AM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
4,452 posts, read 2,853,877 times
Reputation: 3938
Quote:
Originally Posted by seain dublin View Post
I wouldn't talk about making "right decisions" if you're in a job that only pays $25K a year.
Well, misery loves company. If it's reasonable to assume the parents didn't plan their retirement well, it's also reasonable to assume the children weren't able to plan out their financial situation such that they can also take care of their parents.


On user mentions you can volunteer time OR money.... I'd reckon some folks live far away and don't make enough for parental care. It's one thing if it's just grocery bills. It's a whole other thing if we're talking about $50K of healthcare a year.


If nothing else, calling the OP on making "right decisions" in effect gives him a free pass on not taking care of the parents.
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Old 02-10-2016, 05:59 AM
 
3,758 posts, read 10,595,257 times
Reputation: 6684
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
I know what the term means...it would not affect me. (Medicaid recipients are excluded from filial law in my state). These laws are rarely ever used. The one case that keeps coming up is the 2012 case where the lady left the nursing home and moved to Greece, sticking her son with the bill. Sorry to say it, but her son was a bit of an idiot.
It's good that it wouldn't affect you. However since your post suggested confusion, an explanation was provided - additionally so that future readers might know what it refers to if they are also confused.

As far as them being rarely enforced, there are a lot of anachronistic laws on the books that are "rarely" enforced, however can be enforced at any time. (Case in Michigan in regards to cursing publically in front of a woman and child). As states are looking for more ways to recoup costs spent on Medicaid - as the baby boomers put stress on an already underfunded system - there's always the chance that states could decide to enforce these laws. Therefore its best for folks to at least be aware of them; in case they find themselves in a situation where their state decides they are applicable.
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