Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
My mom has been in an assisted living facility almost a year now. I am her POA in all financial matters, etc., Mom had some money in her Fidelity account and I've used that to pay the assisted living place, but that didn't take long to deplete. SO.....My husband and I have been paying for her care for the last 6 months. I don't mind telling you, at $4500.00 a month, it's not going to take long to deplete our savings. Mom makes about $200.00 too much in SS, so she cannot qualify for Medicaid at this point. We are trying to sell her house now, for just the tax value, and I hope it sells soon. I thought I could get the money back I've paid for mom's monthly fee at her assisted living place, once the house was sold, now I'm not so sure?? I went to an Elder care attorney and he told me I "SHOULD" be able to get my money back once I sell her home. I would love to know something more concrete, I really thought I could get it back as it was going to pay for her care. Today, I called the the medicaid office and asked them the same question. The lady told me that I could not write myself a check, even if it was for her care. She also told me she would check further into the matter and get back with me. I am so new to all this, I swear it takes an Einstein to figure it all out. My mom does not qualify for skilled nursing, she is still active, can feed herself and she walks pretty good, she also dresses herself. She has dementia and has to be in a locked memory care unit. I hope someone can answer my question about getting our money back once the house sells, I sure thought I would not have a problem doing so
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
13,060 posts, read 7,493,946 times
Reputation: 9787
Depends.
If you have POA you can, however, the State doesn't like to give Medicare when there was/is assets.
If you are providing services as out of goodness, maybe not. For Medicare in Our state, there is a 5 year look back to determine if the assets was not spent irresponsibly by a relative or caregiver. You will need to keep good records.
You absolutely need to verify this. Retain a knowledgeable and trusted advisor.
Our Community college gives a short course for eldercare. Our State does have a fairly active senior advisory.
YMMV
My mom has been in an assisted living facility almost a year now. I am her POA in all financial matters, etc., Mom had some money in her Fidelity account and I've used that to pay the assisted living place, but that didn't take long to deplete. SO.....My husband and I have been paying for her care for the last 6 months. I don't mind telling you, at $4500.00 a month, it's not going to take long to deplete our savings. Mom makes about $200.00 too much in SS, so she cannot qualify for Medicaid at this point. We are trying to sell her house now, for just the tax value, and I hope it sells soon. I thought I could get the money back I've paid for mom's monthly fee at her assisted living place, once the house was sold, now I'm not so sure?? I went to an Elder care attorney and he told me I "SHOULD" be able to get my money back once I sell her home. I would love to know something more concrete, I really thought I could get it back as it was going to pay for her care. Today, I called the the medicaid office and asked them the same question. The lady told me that I could not write myself a check, even if it was for her care. She also told me she would check further into the matter and get back with me. I am so new to all this, I swear it takes an Einstein to figure it all out.
My mom does not qualify for skilled nursing, she is still active, can feed herself and she walks pretty good, she also dresses herself. She has dementia and has to be in a locked memory care unit. I hope someone can answer my question about getting our money back once the house sells, I sure thought I would not have a problem doing so
In my area, a locked memory unit is usually considered beyond the level of a "skilled nursing unit" (and they charge a lot extra for that very reason).
Sorry, but you may or may not be able to be reimbursed for the money that you already paid out. And, I really doubt if anyone on here can give you a better answer than that. I would trust what the elder care attorney in your state told you.
Rules for Medicaid vary from state to state and are very complex. Even if your mother ends up spending every dime of the money that she receives from the sale of her house to the nursing home she still may or may not qualify for Medicaid.
Thanks for the responses. I am in NC. I was told by a person at the The council On Aging in my state that I would get back the money I paid for my mom's care. I don't think she really knew though, she didn't know a lot of the other questions I had. Then when my attorney said "I should" and that was not clear to me. I've been told to keep a paper trail of everything, and I have been. I am just so confused. Even the lady at medicaid said she would follow up with this question, I don't know if she'll get back with me.
Jennifer, I am sorry you are going through this. Have you talked to the AL? I don't think you can get the money back.
It sounds like you held off on selling the house if I am reading this correctly, can you price it to sell?
One poster mentioned their state has a 5 year look back, I believe every state has a 5 year look back. I know you can't change the past, but you need to get the house sold.
What you could do is I believe reimburse yourselves from the sale of the house.
I'm not going to say you will or won't get your money back. I'd hate to see you change horses midstream, but if you don't think your lawyer is up on things and with it, scout out a new lawyer. Has he been good with all your other planning and does he seem to know the law and details otherwise? if it's JUST this one thing he's hedging about that might be understandable….
I will also say this:
IF you sell the house -- and that sale gets you more than FIVE YEARS worth of money for mom you should be able to get your money back. Medicaid only looks back five years. SO you have FIVE YEARS out….. that you need to plan.
(and I'm presuming you have no siblings who could challenge your actions)
You say YOU are putting out 4,500 a month, but is that just your part after you've used mom's Soc Security toward it?
In any event, let's say (for round numbers sake):
-- Mom's care is 5K a month X 12 = 60K a year (just the facility, you could be spending other small money here and there)
-- 60K a year for 5 years = 300K
-- JUNE 2016…you sell the house, get the proceeds, bank that
(now, of course you said you're jus selling it for the tax value so I don't know how much that will bring)
Let's say YOU need to be repaid 30K…..IF the house proceeds gives you enough money for 5 years of mom's care -- PLUS your 30K then you can very easily get your money back.
Basically you need enough money from the house sale to pay yourself back -- AND pay for five years for mom. And we know what those numbers are.
THAT is why I asked how much mom's Soc Sec. is -- because ANY money SHE has coming in, can offset her outgo.
If the facility is 5K and she brings in 1k -- then you only need to tap her house proceeds 4 K a month…and any little but your can stretch the money HELPS YOU GET TO THE FIVE YEARS.
-- Key issues are how long do you think mom will live like this? WIll she last the entire five years? Does she have any other health issues, that would make you think she may not live five years?
-- IF she doesn't outlive the HOUSE SALE MONEY, then qualifying for Medicaid isn't even an issue.
Also I'd put the house proceeds into a trust after the sale, just incase she DOES have some money left over, after five years…let's say July of 2021.
IF you sell the house and DO NOT get five years of care money for mom…then personally I can't say you'll get your money back. YOU know you're paying yourself back….will MEDICAID see it that way. That's a lot of money some auditor might THINK you're trying to transfer. But you will have receipts showing YOU paid the facility, and mom is paying you back….You'll just have to see…..which is why most spending down should be out of MOM'S funds…..but anyway….
You could also stop paying the assisted living place, and see what they do.
Check your state's filial responsibility laws (just for education's sake)
Your lawyer -- an elder care and special needs estate planning SPECIALIST right??? -- should be giving you step by step instructions on what to do and how you together will proceed.
To others, this is why you must try to plan FIVE YEARS AHEAD. Why do you think congress changed the look back from three -- to five years? To make it harder for you to plan.
Mom's house is only worth $129,000 so that won't take long to go through. My husband and I are the only one's taking care of mom, my only sister is handicap and we help her as well. Our realtor told us the best time to sell her home is in the spring. I was also told by a lady from council on aging that we could get the money we paid for her care back, as long as we kept a paper trail. It didn't bother me so bad knowing I would get everything we paid in for mom's care, now, it seems I will not and that's the hard reality I guess. What a shock. The lawyer I got was suppose to be the best around, he was $390.00 an hour and came highly recommended. He said I "should" get the money back I paid, but that's not a clear cut answer. I don't understand why that question was so hard for him. I may end up getting another lawyer all together.
My mom's mom lived to be 94 and had dementia at about the same time mom did, a year ago, or so. I think my grandmother, as best I can remember, had to go into skilled nursing around age 90.
Also, mom gets $1522.00 a month in SS, that is with part D medicare taken out and part b I think. I am not old enough to get medicare as of yet so I'm not that familiar with it. Mom makes too much in SS to get any help. It's sad, so sad.
My mom has been in an assisted living facility almost a year now. I am her POA in all financial matters, etc., Mom had some money in her Fidelity account and I've used that to pay the assisted living place, but that didn't take long to deplete. SO.....My husband and I have been paying for her care for the last 6 months. I don't mind telling you, at $4500.00 a month, it's not going to take long to deplete our savings.
Mom makes about $200.00 too much in SS, so she cannot qualify for Medicaid at this point. We are trying to sell her house now, for just the tax value, and I hope it sells soon. I thought I could get the money back I've paid for mom's monthly fee at her assisted living place, once the house was sold, now I'm not so sure?? I went to an Elder care attorney and he told me I "SHOULD" be able to get my money back once I sell her home. I would love to know something more concrete, I really thought I could get it back as it was going to pay for her care. Today, I called the the medicaid office and asked them the same question. The lady told me that I could not write myself a check, even if it was for her care. She also told me she would check further into the matter and get back with me. I am so new to all this, I swear it takes an Einstein to figure it all out. My mom does not qualify for skilled nursing, she is still active, can feed herself and she walks pretty good, she also dresses herself. She has dementia and has to be in a locked memory care unit. I hope someone can answer my question about getting our money back once the house sells, I sure thought I would not have a problem doing so
Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferHoliday
Mom's house is only worth $129,000 so that won't take long to go through. My husband and I are the only one's taking care of mom, my only sister is handicap and we help her as well. Our realtor told us the best time to sell her home is in the spring. I was also told by a lady from council on aging that we could get the money we paid for her care back, as long as we kept a paper trail. It didn't bother me so bad knowing I would get everything we paid in for mom's care, now, it seems I will not and that's the hard reality I guess. What a shock. The lawyer I got was suppose to be the best around, he was $390.00 an hour and came highly recommended. He said I "should" get the money back I paid, but that's not a clear cut answer. I don't understand why that question was so hard for him. I may end up getting another lawyer all together.
My mom's mom lived to be 94 and had dementia at about the same time mom did, a year ago, or so. I think my grandmother, as best I can remember, had to go into skilled nursing around age 90.
Also, mom gets $1522.00 a month in SS, that is with part D medicare taken out and part b I think. I am not old enough to get medicare as of yet so I'm not that familiar with it. Mom makes too much in SS to get any help. It's sad, so sad.
Medicaid is a very complex issue.
I believe that the monthly financial limits for "regular Medicaid" are different than for "Medicaid" for someone in a nursing home. After all your mother gets $1522 in SS and her locked memory care/nursing home costs are $4,500 a month. Once all of her other assets are spent obviously her monthly SS will not be enough to pay her nursing home costs.
Every state is different and Medicaid is very complex. Perhaps the nursing home can help you with information about signing up for Medicaid (of course, after all of your mother's assets are spent). Sometimes nursing homes can be very helpful in giving people information. After all, they want to continue to be paid.
Good Luck.
Last edited by germaine2626; 04-05-2016 at 08:13 PM..
Mom's house is only worth $129,000 so that won't take long to go through. My husband and I are the only one's taking care of mom, my only sister is handicap and we help her as well. Our realtor told us the best time to sell her home is in the spring. I was also told by a lady from council on aging that we could get the money we paid for her care back, as long as we kept a paper trail. It didn't bother me so bad knowing I would get everything we paid in for mom's care, now, it seems I will not and that's the hard reality I guess. What a shock. The lawyer I got was suppose to be the best around, he was $390.00 an hour and came highly recommended. He said I "should" get the money back I paid, but that's not a clear cut answer. I don't understand why that question was so hard for him. I may end up getting another lawyer all together.
My mom's mom lived to be 94 and had dementia at about the same time mom did, a year ago, or so. I think my grandmother, as best I can remember, had to go into skilled nursing around age 90.
Also, mom gets $1522.00 a month in SS, that is with part D medicare taken out and part b I think. I am not old enough to get medicare as of yet so I'm not that familiar with it. Mom makes too much in SS to get any help. It's sad, so sad.
With due respect, OP, it's not sad -- it's the way the system works. Lots of us earn too much to make the system work for us, so we're forced to work within the confines of the system.
My parents blew through what little money they'd saved in a matter of just a few short years, some on medical bills, but most on stupid, frivolous purchases from Walmart. Mom had a hoard of Rubbermaid containers (in new packaging, mind you) that was truly a sight to behold, duplicate small appliances (everything from indoor grills to coffee makers and onion choppers), FIVE deluxe refrigerators and freezers, THREE different $$$ mattress sets, and the list goes on. We tried to tell them the money wouldn't last, but they went on with their spending. Luckily, they used a chunk of Dad's pension to pay off the house, so at least they didn't have to worry about housing.
Late last year, when Dad and brother and I were at the ends of our ropes, physically exhausted, unable to live our own lives because we dedicated most of our days to caring for my terminally ill mother, our only choice was to dig deep, get it together, and keep doing what we'd been doing. Before she was in hospice, we got no help at all. Once she moved into hospice, we got one nurse and 3 home health aide visits per week. That was it. Anything beyond that, Medicare didn't cover, so we would have had to pay out of pocket for additional assistance from private nurses or aides. None of us could afford that, so we had to bear the brunt of it. Before Mom died, there was about $5K in their bank account, and together they brought in about $2300 in SS benefits. Now that she's gone, Dad gets $1522 in SS and that's it. Mom bought a small insurance policy ($5K) that Dad received, so he has less than $10K in savings now. Period. Unless there's a lottery win in my family's future, Dad will die at home with us caring for him just like we did for Mom.
That's why the financial types like Dave Ramsey, for instance, keep harping on everyone to save their money, build their retirement savings, purchase long-term care insurance, etc. Your experience, and mine with my own parents, is exactly why that advice is valid. The premiums on LTCI are far less than the monthly cost to live in an ALF or SLF.
It's unfortunate, yes, but our parents either didn't or couldn't put enough away to make sure their needs would be covered through the end of their lives. We owe it to our kids not to put them through the same experience.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
