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Old 02-15-2016, 09:51 AM
 
576 posts, read 854,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
I am glad that SIL is coming to town, it will be a great time for the two of them (and the other adults helping) their mother to sit down with a social worker from the local Council of Aging or someone else to discuss MIL's needs and look at options.


I did have a question about SIL. You keep saying that she "does everything for her mother except breathe". Does that mean that SIL takes over every task while she in town, all of the cooking, all of the cleaning, all of the errand running, all of the home upkeep and does not encourage her mom to follow her usually routine and to do the things that she can do herself during those visits?


I would think that if MIL gets used to having a companion the entire time that she is awake, and every meal prepared for her,someone to drive her to the grocery store & the pet store & the pharmacy & the mall whenever she asks to do that and every little detail of her life handled immediately, it may be difficult to return to her "normal" life where she does not have someone living in her home immediately answering her wishes/wants/needs like a magic fairy.


In addition, SIL, by living at her mother's house and by doing all of those things gets an unrealistic view of what her mother's life is like and what she can and can not do when she is not there. Also, because SIL is not at home she can devote her time 24/7 to her mom which the rest of you probably can not do without great difficulty.

While having SIL here would give all of you a much needed respite, it would seem that it could make MIL even more demanding for attention in the future. MIL may be thinking "Well, if my daughter can do this, and that and this other thing every day while she is here why can't my son and his family do the same?"
She does, to the bolded first comment, she does come here and literally do everything, when she's here, except breathe for her mother, and I'm not exaggerating. She literally does.

And yes precisely why I have tried to stress to sil, who is not one to SIT ... please sit down and let your mother go about the routine she would do if you weren't here, you need to see for yourself how she is deteriorating and can't keep up, the stamina required to do the things that she does, and how diminished her capabilities are becoming. Whether sil will do that, when she comes, something that goes against her nature, .. she doesn't "sit" easily. She has to be "doing" all the time. Whether she'll actually do that, I can't say, but I have tried to stress it and will continue to do so.

The 2nd point, about having sil here doing for mil constantly and then she goes away and mil has to again do for herself, and that one might would think it makes it harder. Quite the contrary. I think mil, .. in all actuality, she truly .. in a sense, dreads seeing her daughter come. Her daughter is such a bundle of energy and so hard wired, .. doing and doing and doing, and doesn't sit to relax ever, .. and it makes mil nervous and anxious when her daughter comes. I don't think it's, at all, from my observation, .. a situation where she sits back and thinks "oh isn't this all so lovely". Not at all.

I have, in numerous conversations w/sil, imparted that information to her, in the request that she please stop and smell the roses, and along the way let her mom do for herself, some more , more than would be typical. Sil's typical response to all that is along the lines of "Well that's why I'm there, I feel so guilty being so far away .. and I can't be there all the time like you guys have to be, and so when I'm there I want to make sure every second counts, and do for her all that I can possibly do .. it's why I'm there, to help her, ...".

Along with that, what gets said, "then why does she tell me of the things that are bothersome to her, .. does she think when she mentions that her car needs to be washed, or serviced, or her flower beds look so bad, or that back door, it looks so drab, .. or the overgrowth of the arbor honeysuckle, or a myriad of other things, does shes think I'm gonna sit on my tush and not see to it .. no, .. that's why I'm there, why does she tell me these things that are bothersome to her, the gutters that are clogged, the back deck that needs to be blown off .. all the acorns on it, .. she tells me all these things, but them I'm supposed to sit on my tush and just not do it, I can't do that, that's why I'm there".

It's a really interesting thing.

Indeed. Why does mil tell her all these things that need doing, but then complain that she wishes her daughter would just visit with her, that her daughter makes her nervous and anxious when she comes here, a hubbub of activity, always .. phone calls to be made, gutters to clean, you name it, so busy busy busy, all the whole time, ... why does she do that, mil? Why tell her, and then complain when she actually hops to and does it?

I have said to mil, "maybe stop telling her the things you notice that are bothersome, because you know she will do it ... and you don't want her to".

Mil's response, typically along the lines of:, "just because I mention those flower beds look so bad it doesn't mean she has to hop to and go to it".

Sil's response to that: "Well He&*, I know she can't do it .. if I don't who's gonna".

Back and forth it goes.

I did, the last time I talked to sil, express to her, that her mother wishes that she would quit with some of the hubbub of constant activity and just visit with her. She says that they DO visit, they sit and have b'fast together in the mornings, .. and they talk then, they sit and have lunch together and visit, just talk, .. so.....

I said to sil, "how bout when you come this time, she .. is always mentioning to you the littany of problematic things she sees, that need doing, how bout rather than jumping in both feet first, .. let her choose ... ask her "Ma, you mentioned that flower bed out back looks so bad, I can hop out there today and work on that, if you want me to, or if you'd rather maybe we can go to a movie and go to lunch, or maybe we go to the museum for part of the day, you choose".

She said she'd do that, let her mom have some say-so in it all.

But yes, it is very interesting. You would think, as she watches her daughter come here and basically become her hand-servant for days on end, and answering her every whim of what needs doing, that she'd be one who thinks that is a lovely arrangement, and why can't it continue. Quite the contrary.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:00 AM
 
576 posts, read 854,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars View Post
One way or the other it sure will…..eventually.
Oh I think we all hope that eventuality doesn't come. We hope for her, (don't we all hope for this) that she can, as she has said so many times, go to sleep and wake up on that cloud in the sky with her husband, and be done with this life.

We all hope for that, for ourselves and our loved ones, and as we all know, only the lucky few get out of here, this life, with that peaceful of an exit.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
17,077 posts, read 17,411,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nnyl View Post
She does, to the bolded first comment, she does come here and literally do everything, when she's here, except breathe for her mother, and I'm not exaggerating. She literally does.

And yes precisely why I have tried to stress to sil, who is not one to SIT ... please sit down and let your mother go about the routine she would do if you weren't here, you need to see for yourself how she is deteriorating and can't keep up, the stamina required to do the things that she does, and how diminished her capabilities are becoming. Whether sil will do that, when she comes, something that goes against her nature, .. she doesn't "sit" easily. She has to be "doing" all the time. Whether she'll actually do that, I can't say, but I have tried to stress it and will continue to do so.

The 2nd point, about having sil here doing for mil constantly and then she goes away and mil has to again do for herself, and that one might would think it makes it harder. Quite the contrary. I think mil, .. in all actuality, she truly .. in a sense, dreads seeing her daughter come. Her daughter is such a bundle of energy and so hard wired, .. doing and doing and doing, and doesn't sit to relax ever, .. and it makes mil nervous and anxious when her daughter comes. I don't think it's, at all, from my observation, .. a situation where she sits back and thinks "oh isn't this all so lovely". Not at all.

I have, in numerous conversations w/sil, imparted that information to her, in the request that she please stop and smell the roses, and along the way let her mom do for herself, some more , more than would be typical. Sil's typical response to all that is along the lines of "Well that's why I'm there, I feel so guilty being so far away .. and I can't be there all the time like you guys have to be, and so when I'm there I want to make sure every second counts, and do for her all that I can possibly do .. it's why I'm there, to help her, ...".

Along with that, what gets said, "then why does she tell me of the things that are bothersome to her, .. does she think when she mentions that her car needs to be washed, or serviced, or her flower beds look so bad, or that back door, it looks so drab, .. or the overgrowth of the arbor honeysuckle, or a myriad of other things, does shes think I'm gonna sit on my tush and not see to it .. no, .. that's why I'm there, why does she tell me these things that are bothersome to her, the gutters that are clogged, the back deck that needs to be blown off .. all the acorns on it, .. she tells me all these things, but them I'm supposed to sit on my tush and just not do it, I can't do that, that's why I'm there".

It's a really interesting thing.

Indeed. Why does mil tell her all these things that need doing, but then complain that she wishes her daughter would just visit with her, that her daughter makes her nervous and anxious when she comes here, a hubbub of activity, always .. phone calls to be made, gutters to clean, you name it, so busy busy busy, all the whole time, ... why does she do that, mil? Why tell her, and then complain when she actually hops to and does it?

I have said to mil, "maybe stop telling her the things you notice that are bothersome, because you know she will do it ... and you don't want her to".

Mil's response, typically along the lines of:, "just because I mention those flower beds look so bad it doesn't mean she has to hop to and go to it".

Sil's response to that: "Well He&*, I know she can't do it .. if I don't who's gonna".

Back and forth it goes.

I did, the last time I talked to sil, express to her, that her mother wishes that she would quit with some of the hubbub of constant activity and just visit with her. She says that they DO visit, they sit and have b'fast together in the mornings, .. and they talk then, they sit and have lunch together and visit, just talk, .. so.....

I said to sil, "how bout when you come this time, she .. is always mentioning to you the littany of problematic things she sees, that need doing, how bout rather than jumping in both feet first, .. let her choose ... ask her "Ma, you mentioned that flower bed out back looks so bad, I can hop out there today and work on that, if you want me to, or if you'd rather maybe we can go to a movie and go to lunch, or maybe we go to the museum for part of the day, you choose".

She said she'd do that, let her mom have some say-so in it all.

But yes, it is very interesting. You would think, as she watches her daughter come here and basically become her hand-servant for days on end, and answering her every whim of what needs doing, that she'd be one who thinks that is a lovely arrangement, and why can't it continue. Quite the contrary.

It was pretty clear when I read this post that the things that MIL mentions are all outside- the back porch, the gutters, the arbor, the flower beds, the car- I bet she is telling her daughter about those outside things so that she (MIL) will have a few minutes of peace and quiet so that she can get away from her daughter and relax from all of the "busyness". BTW, those are all things that her daughter can easily hire someone to do. Heck, even a teenage neighbor would be delighted to earn $10 an hour cash to wash the car, blow the acorns away, mulch the whatevers.


I do hope that SIL asks her mother what she wants to do. I bet that MIL would much rather go to a movie and have a quiet lunch with her daughter than have the gutters cleaned.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:11 AM
 
1,614 posts, read 1,521,804 times
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As long as you continue to do what you're doing, nothing will change, until your MIL's health deteriorates radically.

Your husband isn't going to listen to you, because many men, especially men of certain generations, don't hear their wives' words. They think that nagging is just what we do, and they tune it out. It's background noise, like the "adult" voices in a Charlie Brown special. However, when our actions change radically, they know that something is wrong.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:13 AM
 
237 posts, read 161,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
Has your husband and his sister met with a elder care social worker or her doctor or an eldercare attorney or anyone else who can realistic discuss their mother's needs with them? Perhaps, even your minister or another trusted advisor would help them "see the light" regarding this matter.

A personal example, my disabled husband will follow the advice of a favorite doctor immediately and without question when he or she tells him to do something. I could have been telling my husband the same thing and he would just ignore me but when "Dr. Smith" says it my husband immediately agrees to do it.

Maybe, you need a "Dr. Smith" to tell your husband, his sister and MIL, that she needs more help. Maybe if "Dr. Smith" tells MIL, you need to have Meals on Wheels, you need to go to a senior center twice a week, you need to hire some outside help to assist with bathing, etc. she will agree without complaint
YES! My husband is the EXACT same way.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:20 AM
 
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Yup - "Dr. Smith" is an excellent idea. My husband sometimes doesn't even remember that I've previously proposed some of "Dr. Smith's" great new recommendations!
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:22 AM
 
237 posts, read 161,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nnyl View Post
Oh I think we all hope that eventuality doesn't come. We hope for her, (don't we all hope for this) that she can, as she has said so many times, go to sleep and wake up on that cloud in the sky with her husband, and be done with this life.

We all hope for that, for ourselves and our loved ones, and as we all know, only the lucky few get out of here, this life, with that peaceful of an exit.
Trouble is that rarely happens in this day of "modern medicine". Many medical advances do not improve quality of life; they just make it so people take longer to die.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:29 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,358 posts, read 7,760,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
I am glad that SIL is coming to town, it will be a great time for the two of them (and the other adults helping) their mother to sit down with a social worker from the local Council of Aging or someone else to discuss MIL's needs and look at options.

I second this idea. It's long overdue to find out the options available and to work through the touchy emotions involved with a professional. We used a geriatric psychiatrist but there many services that work with these kinds of issues. Without a mediator to keep things on track family meetings can quickly turn into vent and b*t*h sessions with nothing accomplished.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:35 AM
 
576 posts, read 854,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corgifreak View Post
Trouble is that rarely happens in this day of "modern medicine". Many medical advances do not improve quality of life; they just make it so people take longer to die.
Thus another thread I had started some weeks back "quantity vs quality". Medicine, I think, has advanced to the point that there's a pill you can take for almost everything, .. and that pill, maybe it causes another problem, but sure there's another pill you can take for that, and so on it goes.

In so doing, it's a study I would find very interesting if it was out there. What has this done to the geriatric population. How many of them that are very aged, and have a litany of ailments (none of which in their own right, terminal) how many of them are actually enjoying "quality" of life, vs. quantity.

I know that mil has mentioned it, if one time, 1K x's, ... "I don't know why I'm still here, I can't read anymore like I like to, my eyes bother me so, I was such an avid reader, .... I can't write anymore like I used to enjoy, my arthritic hands won't let me ... I can't get out and go and do things .. I am here, day after day, ... for what ...???....for the next doctor appt., or lab work, or the next maybe semi-interesting tv program, I'm just ready to go on to that great cloud in the sky, just go to sleep and wake up on that cloud".

I have to, in a sense, agree with her, that is her life anymore. Yes, she can listen to audio books, but I'm guessing, if you are someone who so enjoyed reading .. and can no longer do as much of that, .. audio books, just aren't quite the same.

She's someone who, in her younger years, enjoyed going to the beach, .. she enjoyed playing on a tennis team, she enjoyed gardening. She enjoyed going to various .. oh I don't know, local festivals that might be held, art shows, arts and crafts .... and she was good at it, and in some cases submitted her works to local craft shows, etc. None of which she can really ambulate to do anymore.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:51 AM
 
576 posts, read 854,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
It was pretty clear when I read this post that the things that MIL mentions are all outside- the back porch, the gutters, the arbor, the flower beds, the car- I bet she is telling her daughter about those outside things so that she (MIL) will have a few minutes of peace and quiet so that she can get away from her daughter and relax from all of the "busyness". BTW, those are all things that her daughter can easily hire someone to do. Heck, even a teenage neighbor would be delighted to earn $10 an hour cash to wash the car, blow the acorns away, mulch the whatevers.


I do hope that SIL asks her mother what she wants to do. I bet that MIL would much rather go to a movie and have a quiet lunch with her daughter than have the gutters cleaned.
I had to laugh when I read this, it's so very very true and accurate.

Sil, her favorite store is Trader Joe's. Trader Joe has a location here but it's not right around the corner. She will go to Trader Joe's, which means she will be gone longer. Mil RELISHES the time she is gone to TJ's.

She will ask if mil wants to go with her, "NO ... I don't want to go, it takes too long", .. and that's precisely because she knows that bundle of nerves will be out from under her nose for at least an hour if not more.

And having her work outside, .. that's a whole other interesting thing about it all. That's another piece of the puzzle that is so bothersome to mil, and she has mentioned it 1,000 times. Typically sil, who is the ball of nerves - has to be doing all the time, she is the one who will go out, get on her hands and knees and begin digging at the flower bed, .. or get up on a ladder and start clearing the over-growth of honeysuckle from the arbor, .. or pull the car out into the d/w, to wash it .. or any of a number of things. Where is her oh so bothersome husband at this moment (the husband mil dislikes so vehemently). He is typically right there with her, .. with sil ... his hands in his pockets, and waiting on an order from sil. If she says to him, "would you go over there and bring that garbage can to me, so I an get rid of some of this ...", he'll do it. If she says, would you go over there and unkink that garden hose, he'll do it .... would you go over there and drag this garbage can back over that way .. I filled it, he'll do it.

But read previous posts about this situation, he is good as gold, and will do as he's told to do, in a heartbeat, but he doesn't "see" what needs doing, unless told to do so ...

THIS .. un-nerves mil, and makes her blood boil. That he just stands there, while her daughter works/works and works, and he stands there, hands in pockets, standing there ... as she says "like a bump on a log".

I've asked her, "what would you rather he be doing?". Thinking she might say "well can't he take some dam&ed initiative and do something on his own, why does he have to stand there staring at her work, and wait for an order".

******that isn't him, .. he is so heavily medicated due to his BP condition .. he simply doesn't ... DO, unless he is directed to DO, that defines him.

I ask her the above thinking that will be her answer. It isn't.

Her answer goes along these lines, "I don't know, it just Pi&*es me off to the core, that he is so Da&*ned dysfunctional that my daughter has had to become so hyper vigilant that she has had to take the reigns in their lives, .. all their married lives and he just stands there like a lump of coal".

I have said to mil, "But she is happy doing what she does, she doesn't put her feet on the floor every day of her life, in dread and misery, she is happy with her life, doesn't that matter?".

Mil: "Well I sure wouldn't be, and that isn't who she used to be, he has changed her .. his problems .. have changed her, she's not the carefree soul she once was, the fun-loving .. she's too responsible, too bundled up a bunch of nervous energy, because she's been made to take the reigns all these years and it just Pi&*ses me off".

So there ya have it.

Doesn't make sense to me, but I'm not 86 yo, and don't feel good.

I would hope, .. I have daughters, .. one married .. I happen to like her husband ... but I would hope that I would be able to, .. given this set of circumstances, look at it for what it is ... she is happy, in the end, isn't that what matters most?

And no, I don't even think it's that her daughter has had to take over care of her husband and it now renders her unable to give her mother the attention she so would maybe crave. I really don't think that's even it ... (but maybe I'm not objective enough to see that). I think it truly is, as she defines it, infuriating to her that her daughter works like a dog, .. and he stands there, hands in pockets looking on, waiting for an order.

I've asked sil if she can maybe busy her husband some, so that it doesn't infuriate mil so much to watch him stand there looking upon the goings on .. and she says "well yes, sometimes I can, he can go wash the car for me, . but I know where everything is, he doesn't, sometimes it's easier for me to just do it".

That part of it all, I find very interesting. I don't get it.

I have told mil, "why do you look, you know it infuriates you, don't look, go get a crossword puzzle, go get a book, a magazine, .. go do something else, don't look". She says of that notion, "Well it goes on and on, because you know she doesn't stop the whole time she's here, she doesn't stop, so she's always doing something, and there he stands, hands in pockets watching".

SIGH
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