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I know - I have a lot of rookie questions about this whole process.
So I'm really my 85-year-old father's only living relative except for a handful of equally elderly cousins of his. I was in my hometown for a weekend, and came away a bit alarmed. I mean, I've had concerns before, but he always seemed to right himself.
However, right now, his lifelong best friend is very ill and may not be with us much longer, though I hope otherwise. He's the same age as my father and dealing with cancer that may or may not respond to treatment. I think this has put my father into a bit of a decline. He says he wasn't feeling well this weekend, and maybe that was it. But this was my big (but possibly silly) red flag.
We visited my uncle on Saturday, and both men were arguing good-naturedly about what their favorite breakfasts were to get at Cracker Barrel. It cracked me up, and it was good to see them squabbling together. Fast forward 24 hours: My father and I get together for breakfast and he says he prefers to go to the local diner for breakfast, where we'd had breakfast the day before. I say fine, but point out that Cracker Barrel is also an option because it's close to his house, where we were going.
He responds that he's NEVER had breakfast at Cracker Barrel.
Well, not only had him and Unc been arguing about what was good for breakfast at Cracker Barrel the day before, but every time we have gotten together during one of my visits and in the 5 years or so leading up to my move out of town, we have eaten at Cracker Barrel for breakfast. He refused to consider any other option for most of that time. And he didn't believe me when I told him we always had breakfast at Cracker Barrel. He just seemed stunned by the idea.
It's a stupid little blip on one level, but on another level, I'm very concerned. He was able to navigate his way to my best friend's house 20 minutes away to pick me up with no problem, which she and I had both worried about, but she says he seemed a bit "wifty" to her.
I had chalked his unsteadiness up to a rough/eventful week - he'd cut his finger badly, hadn't been feeling well, and was also excited about seeing me. But I scheduled the second breakfast with him to kind of see if he'd bounced back. Then we had the Cracker Barrel discussion, and I came away more worried than before. This is a guy who at various times has eaten at that place every day. But he didn't recall ever having breakfast there when we last talked.
So I'm curious what the experienced caregivers on these boards think - is it a little blip or HUGE red flag in the big scheme of things? And if it's a huge red flag, what should my next step be? He refuses to consider moving out to live with me in Colorado because he thinks it's "boring" (I'm in Denver! It's anything but boring - I avoided pointing out that he has been running around the same damn swamp in Jersey for 80 years and is still getting lost there, but whatever.)
I am most certainly no "expert", but IMO you are right to be concerned.
From what little I do know from reading, it sounds like symptoms of early Alzheimer's Disease. Your father's independent living may soon be at an end.
I also am not a legal expert, but, at this point it does not sound like your father is a danger to himself or others, so, IMO, there is quite likely not much you can do. When it becomes very apparent that he can not take proper care of himself, then you may be able to force him to move in with you or put him in a care facility.
It will be rough either way.
Good luck.
I am most certainly no "expert", but IMO you are right to be concerned.
From what little I do know from reading, it sounds like symptoms of early Alzheimer's Disease. Your father's independent living may soon be at an end.
I also am not a legal expert, but, at this point it does not sound like your father is a danger to himself or others, so, IMO, there is quite likely not much you can do. When it becomes very apparent that he can not take proper care of himself, then you may be able to force him to move in with you or put him in a care facility.
It will be rough either way.
Good luck.
Thanks, yeah, it was the weirdest thing to end up squabbling over, and I think that's what alerted me. He's been "wifty" for years, but this was a new level, imo.
I know the standard for gaining power of attorney is quite high and that he's probably not there yet. But this is going to determine how often I visit in the next year or so. I do worry about him driving though
Thanks, yeah, it was the weirdest thing to end up squabbling over, and I think that's what alerted me. He's been "wifty" for years, but this was a new level, imo.
I know the standard for gaining power of attorney is quite high and that he's probably not there yet. But this is going to determine how often I visit in the next year or so. I do worry about him driving though
Thanks for the useful input!
A couple of things.
No idea if your father's issues are neurological or not, and no one on this board can diagnose. A neurological workup is the best way to find that out.
Second - the standard for gaining POA is so low a child could crawl over it. Your father contacts an attorney, they write out a POA (durable Power of Attorney would be best given his age, etc..) and your father signs it.
Voila, Power of attorney is granted. To you, to the mailman, to the friendly woman at the grocery store - whoever your father wants/names now has the ability to act (in Legal matters) in his stead.
If a healtcare proxy/power of attorney is also wanted - same process.
Neither of those are GUARDIANSHIP which has a much higher standard. That is because in guardianship you are taking someone's agency away from them. It should have a high standard to do that.
POA does not allow you to do anything to your father "against his will". i.e. you can't sell his house in Jersey and force him to move to Denver. You can however assist him if he wants to refinance his house and he has trouble signing his name, or making it to the appt. You can buy a car for him using POA - but you can't buy a car for you. Basically it allows you to step in and legally represent him in something he wants to do, but is having trouble with because of health, or schedule.
(For instance many service members grant their spouse power of attorney so that if the spouse needs to sell the home / buy a new car while the service member is away, they can do so without difficulty).
Durable means that if your father were to ever become mentally disabled, the dPOA would remain in effect. A normal POA would be rendered void if your father were to become mentally disabled and you would then have to pursue guardianship.
Good luck with your dad, hope he remains able to argue with his brother about breakfast for a long time to come.
No idea if your father's issues are neurological or not, and no one on this board can diagnose. A neurological workup is the best way to find that out.
Second - the standard for gaining POA is so low a child could crawl over it. Your father contacts an attorney, they write out a POA (durable Power of Attorney would be best given his age, etc..) and your father signs it.
Voila, Power of attorney is granted. To you, to the mailman, to the friendly woman at the grocery store - whoever your father wants/names now has the ability to act (in Legal matters) in his stead.
If a healtcare proxy/power of attorney is also wanted - same process.
Neither of those are GUARDIANSHIP which has a much higher standard. That is because in guardianship you are taking someone's agency away from them. It should have a high standard to do that.
POA does not allow you to do anything to your father "against his will". i.e. you can't sell his house in Jersey and force him to move to Denver. You can however assist him if he wants to refinance his house and he has trouble signing his name, or making it to the appt. You can buy a car for him using POA - but you can't buy a car for you. Basically it allows you to step in and legally represent him in something he wants to do, but is having trouble with because of health, or schedule.
(For instance many service members grant their spouse power of attorney so that if the spouse needs to sell the home / buy a new car while the service member is away, they can do so without difficulty).
Durable means that if your father were to ever become mentally disabled, the dPOA would remain in effect. A normal POA would be rendered void if your father were to become mentally disabled and you would then have to pursue guardianship.
Good luck with your dad, hope he remains able to argue with his brother about breakfast for a long time to come.
Excellent points. Making sure his paperwork is in order is a good first step. Regarding Medical POA, IMHO, every adult should have their short & long medical wishes, and who they want to follow through on those wishes, in writing. I know a number of people who have done this before their children go off to college or leave home as 18 year olds. I believe that a Medical POA stays valid indefinitely. My husband's Medical POA was written 30 years ago and he never needed it until last year when he fell down a flight of stairs and I needed to take over for him and make his medical decisions. It could have been a legal nightmare if he did not have the Medical POA (it may be called different things in different states) and I would have had to go through the court system to be allowed to make his medical decisions.
Frankly, his behavior & confusion could be just a blip (due to not feeling well) or it could be a sign of something much more serious.
How long do you usually stay with your dad when you visit? Sometimes, elderly people who are having difficulty are able to hide it well for a weekend but if you stay for a week or two their deficits become easier to spot. Have you gone with him for any of his doctors appointments? Is he even going to the doctor on a regular basis?
Is there anyone that you trust who can check in on him on a regular basis? Perhaps, the adult child/grandchild of a close friend? A younger, long time neighbor? Someone from his church? Of course, a niece or nephew or other family member would be great, but, since there aren't any of those around you may have to "think outside the box".
Good luck to you.
Last edited by germaine2626; 10-03-2016 at 12:03 PM..
Hate to say it most likely will get worse. When my mom was in her early 80's she stated my aunts last name was pronounced a totally different way. The name is Cooper, but she said it like "Cup-er". She acted like I was crazy for not knowing how to say it. It wasn't until she called my sister and told her my living uncle had passed, that I got her to the doctor. She had had a small stroke.
She soon had 2 more and a heart attack, and then passed. I believe the little signs are too alert us that there's worse on the way. It sounds like your dad is at the place where he needs looked after. He could soon be forgetting how to turn off the stove. Good luck to you and him.
Excellent points. Making sure his paperwork is in order is a good first step. Regarding Medical POA, IMHO, every adult should have their short & long medical wishes, and who they want to follow through on those wishes, in writing. I know a number of people who have done this before their children go off to college or leave home as 18 year olds. I believe that a Medical POA stays valid indefinitely. My husband's Medical POA was written 30 years ago and he never needed it until last year when he fell down a flight of stairs and I needed to take over for him and make his medical decisions. It could have been a legal nightmare if he did not have the Medical POA (it may be called different things in different states) and I would have had to go through the court system to be allowed to make his medical decisions.
Frankly, his behavior & confusion could be just a blip (due to not feeling well) or it could be a sign of something much more serious.
How long do you usually stay with your dad when you visit? Sometimes, elderly people who are having difficulty are able to hide it well for a weekend but if you stay for a week or two their deficits become easier to spot. Have you gone with him for any of his doctors appointments? Is he even going to the doctor on a regular basis?
Is there anyone that you trust who can check in on him on a regular basis? Perhaps, the adult child/grandchild of a close friend? A younger, long time neighbor? Someone from his church? Of course, a niece or nephew or other family member would be great, but, since there aren't any of those around you may have to "think outside the box".
Good luck to you.
Well, here's the thing about Power of Attorney and my father - his last girlfriend (a total whackjob) claimed to be a legal expert because her brother is a lawyer and she pronounced very sternly to him that no one should ever give power of attorney to someone else. My uncle (his best friend) and my aunt and her sister (the sisters have since passed on) were appalled and pointed out that they each had a POA for medical reasons. Pop still clings to his ex-girlfriend's advice though. He also refuses to do a will since I'm his only living relative and I'll "get it all anyway" (which is NOT the point at all).
I didn't stay with my father this time - I was just around for a weekend, but I stay in fairly close touch with him. We talk at least a couple times a week, and I'm probably going to up that to daily if I can. And I'm intending to stay with him for a long time when I come back for the holidays, which he is very excited about.
The thing is, he's not a shut-in at all. He goes out with friends to dances, he plays tennis and he works out at the gym almost daily. He interacts with people all the time. My uncle used to give me a yell when he seemed to be having problems, but now my uncle's basically confined to an assisted living facility.
A cousin on my mom's side of the family occasionally runs into him and gives me updates (he's very fond of my dad), but he's a little alarmist. I end up having to talk HIM down from a ledge - my father is, and always has been, a complete slob. He also grew up in relative poverty during the Depression, so he doesn't really get too freaked out about stuff that most people would find intolerable. When my cousin was over one time, he was totally upset because the heat was out in the middle of winter and the house was just filthy and thought I needed to do something. I explained that no, that's just how my father operates and he'd have the heat fixed when he felt like it and clean the house when he felt like it too. I called to make sure and my dad was nonchalant - he'd put up some tarps to conserve heat in the main room he stays in and had a space heater keeping him warm in there. Not ideal, but totally comfortable to a guy who grew up fur trapping in swamps in the dead of winter.
When he had his brain bleed years ago, I didn't even know it though because he could keep it together during our visits, but he was falling apart when he didn't have a reason to pay attention. It got messy, but then he made a full recovery. It's something I've been trying to monitor.
The problem with having someone check on him is he gets ornery if he thinks he's being monitored. He likes to get his own way.
I'm resigned to this ending kinda badly, but I'm trying to make sure he has a soft landing. There have been a lot of false alarms about his imminent decline, and that's been going on for 5 years or so. His house is a mess and needs massive renovations, but it's liveable, and he still competently manages his finances and hasn't had any tickets or episodes in his car.
Thanks for the thoughts germaine!
I'm gonna call a lot until I can drive back to Jersey after Christmas. I dread staying in that house, but that's what makes sense. He's excited about it- not because his kid is staying with him but because I'm bringing my dogs. LOL.
Yes, it's a red flag. When YOU notice something know he has had a problem for a while. He jumps to the same conclusion you do too. But it's not always dementia. Quite a few conditions or disease processes in the elderly can look like dementia. It's important to find out what's going on. He probably should be evaluated. If it is dementia, it's incurable, but there are meds that can slow down the progress of the disease quite a bit.
And all the people says he needs to get his affairs in order while he still can are right!
His confusion could be due to a UTI. Even active 85 year olds get infections. Can you get him to see his PCP?
It's great that he exercises regularly but TBH he's about one bad fall away from needing at least part-time help, particularly if he trips over part of his mess. Were you being reticent about calling it hoarding, or is it not that bad yet?
His confusion could be due to a UTI. Even active 85 year olds get infections. Can you get him to see his PCP?
It's great that he exercises regularly but TBH he's about one bad fall away from needing at least part-time help, particularly if he trips over part of his mess. Were you being reticent about calling it hoarding, or is it not that bad yet?
Yes, I am very concerned about him falling, but he's not happy if he can't exercise, so I'm not going to talk him out of it.
It's not hoarding - it's "I don't give a crap about my environment as long as I get to do what I want" - so he just doesn't bother to dust or clean the bathroom or vacuum. That kind of thing. As long as he can watch his conservative TV and Business news and read the Wall Street Journal and Barron's and head out for coffee when he wants, he doesn't care about the state of the house. If the lights, heat and plumbing work, he's happy. Everything else is irrelevant.
He keeps very little and happily throws out stuff when he gets around to it.
I will see if he will go to his doctor, though he goes pretty regularly.
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