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Runwith, I love the "it's a hotel" idea. I'll have to remember that. (IF god forbid I ever need to use it)
OP, there are all kinds of 'tricks' (reasonable explanations) one can use, that may be able get a dementia sufferer to cooperate without stressing them out. One facility, that was on its own campus had a fake bus stop (a bench with a bus sign pole) at its front door, within eyeshot of the admin office's window. Whenever anyone would go sit at the bus stop sat too long -- the secretary would just call a staffer and say "Mrs. so-and-so is at the bus stop." I thought that was genius. No one ever made any getaways….because they were waiting for the bus.
Another had a lobby alcove full of book shelves and books. A co-worker's mom who was in the facility called him and said she was at the library. He had to think for a minute where the heck she could be…..then he figured out she was in the lobby alcove of the facility…….after all, a room full of books and bookshelves floor to ceiling IS called a library.
What you can get them to accept just depends on how clear their thinking is at any given time.
Best of luck, OP.
I have very much appreciated all of the view points and the discussion. I think I managed to give everyone a rep!
Money is not an issue with my folks. Although they never had high paying jobs, they were able to work steadily with no lay-offs or other financial disasters. Their lives centered around their family, their church and their dogs, so they were able to live below their means while still doing all of the things that made them happy. Between their pensions and social security, their retirement expenses were more than covered, so money accumulated with no real conscious effort on their part. They had retirement accounts, but had no need to touch those until they reached the age of mandatory withdrawals. When that time came, they mostly reinvested those funds rather than spend them. When my brother and I got to the point of investigating their financial status, we were shocked at how large the nest egg had grown. I seriously doubt that the folks were ever aware of their total net worth.
My husband and I seriously considered moving them in with us, but that's not a realistic option. He works long hours and wouldn't be much help. I work part time, but my hours are irregular. On top of that, I'm not equipped physically or emotionally to meet their needs for hygiene, socialization, and age appropriate activities on a daily basis.
I don't know when they last bathed or showered, but they both have an odor you can from a distance. They clearly are not brushing their teeth. I talked them into hair salon appointments last spring and they haven't been willing to have a cut or shampoo since then.
Their house is piled with junk and newspapers and reeks of dog urine. They throw a fit if they catch anyone cleaning or taking out garbage. If the EMT's needed to come in for an illness or injury, they wouldn't get their gurney past the living room.
They both have serious memory issues. I live a couple of hours away but visit often and do their laundry, etc. My brother brings them ready made foods daily because they can't figure out the microwave any more and don't remember how to put together a simple sandwich. Without several reminders each day they forget their meds. Yet they insist they don't need help and now my mother has threatened to hurt herself if she's moved out of her home.
When they talked of living in their own home until the end, I doubt they pictured living in such deplorable conditions. I doubt they pictured having memory issues and mental confusion, and diminished capacity to understand their circumstances.
Still it's a difficult and heartbreaking decision to make for someone. I'm so glad to hear from others who have been in similar situations and survived.
Thank you for the update. I don't think you realize how very, very serious the situation is with your parents. I currently am the full time caregiver to my spouse, with dementia and a traumatic brain injury, and I can certainly relate. But, even my husband, who needs 24/7 supervision to keep him safe has no where near the amount of problems that your parents seem to have.
I think that Stagemomma said it best. Your parents are not capable of looking out for their best interest and for their own safety. In some ways they are thinking like preschoolers. I am sure that you would not let your own three and four year old children live in a house by themselves, even if someone brought them food and helped them with their medications or other necessities once or twice a day or a couple of hours a day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagemomma
(snip)
Until you've been through it, it is very easy to judge others who are forced, against their will, to make decisions for their loved ones who can no longer decide for themselves. There is a big difference between someone CHOOSING to age in place, and someone who has lost all executive function abilities who is no longer capable of CHOOSING but can still express negative thoughts and emotions that are unlikely to be based on fact or reason.
(snip)
I'm so sorry you are going through this.
I was so very worried that my husband would be confused and upset when I took him from rehab after his TBI directly to a new apartment, instead of to our home of over 30 years. It turned out that not only does he not miss our former home, he has virtually no memory of it all.
As far as where you eat & sleep & live, he is living in the "now". We have been in this apartment for almost a year and he still thinks that it is a hotel and we are on vacation someplace at least 40% of the time. And, that is OK. He is happy. He is safe. He is well cared for.
I bet that if you tell your parents that they are going to stay in a hotel, while their home is renovated, there may be an initial fuss to actually get them to leave, but once they are settled in the new place, with their dogs, they will be content.
BTW, you referred to the place as a "beautiful facility".Normally, elderly who appear to have as many difficulties as your parents would need to be on a locked Memory Unit, where the staff is trained to work with people with dementia. So, before you move you them please make sure that it will be a place that will provide enough care.
One more story about a parent moved against their will. One of the members in my caregiver support group told us that her father, with dementia, refused to leave the family farm. She said that it was a very dangerous situation and they could not persuade him or trick him to leave. Finally, three of her brothers literally picked him up and put him in a car to drive the three hours to a skilled nursing facility (with a memory care wing) near where several of his children lived. She said that the drive and the first day were pretty bad, even though his doctor had prescribed some extra tranquilizers. But, within a few days he started to adjust. He was so happy to have his meals prepared for him, people to talk to, someone else doing his "chores" (laundry, cleaning, etc) and his children & grandchildren visited on a regular basis . My friend said that she & her siblings were amazed at how quickly he fell into the new routine and he never asked to return to the farm. The memory care wing was his new home. She said that they wished that they had been able to persuade him to move long before they had to force him, but in the end they were very happy that he was safe and healthy and he was happy, too.
Last edited by germaine2626; 10-17-2016 at 08:48 AM..
Runwith, I love the "it's a hotel" idea. I'll have to remember that. (IF god forbid I ever need to use it)
OP, there are all kinds of 'tricks' (reasonable explanations) one can use, that may be able get a dementia sufferer to cooperate without stressing them out. One facility, that was on its own campus had a fake bus stop (a bench with a bus sign pole) at its front door, within eyeshot of the admin office's window. Whenever anyone would go sit at the bus stop sat too long -- the secretary would just call a staffer and say "Mrs. so-and-so is at the bus stop. I thought that was genius. No one ever made any getaways….because they were waiting for the bus.
Another had a lobby alcove full of book shelves and books. A co-worker's mom who was in the facility called him and said she was at the library. He had to think for a minute where the heck she could be…..then he figured out she was in the lobby alcove of the facility…….after all, a room full of books and bookshelves floor to ceiling IS called a library.
What you can get them to accept just depends on how clear their thinking is at any given time.
Best of luck, OP.
Lol bus stop. Good one.
Yeah, my client was told she was going to regain her strength after an ER & hosp. admission...and she came up with the hotel idea all on her own.
You're right it's a very individual trial and error thing. Sometimes the most ridiculous things work that you feel foolish doing and then you're shocked it worked.
Once my client insisted her dog was lost outside and was trying to leave her unit so I go "No wait a minute it's pouring rain out there come back in and we'll go out when the rain stops." So she did.
It was a bright sunny day!
Now a normal person would be worried that the dog was out in the rain but not her because her fixation was always on the dog and someone trying to steal it.
On the other hand sometimes there are nuggets of Truth in their stories like the time she said everyone was moving and fixated on that for days. Then I found out they had a fire drill and all had to go outside!
So how you handle these things as a matter of trial and error and experience.
Another time she insisted some man was coming in her room with a dog wanting to mate his dog with hers. She was very anxious about that for weeks. Then one day she was in the hospital and I was in her room and a man walked into the room with the dog!! He even had the nerve to argue with me how he had every right to be there and who the hell was I. At first I thought he was just a resident who was in the wrong room but no.
He was some idiot from the neighborhood that they allowed to " visit" and never even told me. So she was telling the truth that she had strange men entering her room without permission. I had a fit.
That's why I say it's a good idea for the family to continue to pay a private CNA or someone if they can afford it for their loved ones who are in a facility. Not to interfere just to pay attention what's going on. Especially when it's time for meds to be administered. Sometimes there's some Monkey Business like charting they gave the meds when they actually just left them sitting on the table.
My mother lives with me. I retired so I could care for her. The people who say the elderly should stay in their home even if it shortens their life span are wrong. My mother would be dead by now if she were left on her own. She has fallen and injured herself several times. Once she had fallen, she could not get up by herself. She would have stayed where she was, and in pain, until someone came to check on her. She will not use a cell phone. She will not eat properly if she must fix her own food. She would have lived a miserable life and probably ended up dying in pain.
As far as checking on her several times a day, that's an unfair burden on the caregiver. It screws up a person's day and creates resentment. It means the caregiver can't go on vacation or even a half day trip. It's easy to say that the sibs should share the care of a parent. Sometimes that just doesn't happen. I am the only surviving child. I have a caregiver friend who ended up sole caregiver of her MIL because her MIL's children refused to help.
I gave my mother the choice of living with me, or going to assisted living. She chose to live with me. It has been difficult for her to accept that she is no longer in control. It has been difficult for me to accept that my life is now concentrated around her needs and wants. Mine are secondary. In many ways, I am now my parent's parent. Much of what I want to do in retirement has been put on hold. It's hard, but I am taking it a day at a time.
I pray that God will give us caregivers a little extra help. We need it.
That's why I say it's a good idea for the family to continue to pay a private CNA or someone if they can afford it for their loved ones who are in a facility. Not to interfere just to pay attention what's going on.
I think that is key also…BUT I do fear that sometimes staff won't do what they should, if they know you've hired your own aide/companion/helper, whatever. A private aide should be a complement to what staffers do -- so the loved one can get MORE attention and care….not do the work of staffers who want to slack off because they know they won't have to do something, because "oh their private aide can do that." Oh I'd hire the private aide…..that's just been my bit of concern about staffers (who, to be honest, I expect to try to get way with doing as little as possible). A prejudice I know, but I just feel that way.
That's why I say it's a good idea for the family to continue to pay a private CNA or someone if they can afford it for their loved ones who are in a facility. Not to interfere just to pay attention what's going on. Especially when it's time for meds to be administered. Sometimes there's some Monkey Business like charting they gave the meds when they actually just left them sitting on the table.
Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars
I think that is key also…BUT I do fear that sometimes staff won't do what they should, if they know you've hired your own aide/companion/helper, whatever. A private aide should be a complement to what staffers do -- so the loved one can get MORE attention and care….not do the work of staffers who want to slack off because they know they won't have to do something, because "oh their private aide can do that." Oh I'd hire the private aide…..that's just been my bit of concern about staffers (who, to be honest, I expect to try to get way with doing as little as possible). A prejudice I know, but I just feel that way.
Hiring a private CNA must be more common in other places in the US, or possibly among wealthier people than I know, or something.
I have known many people who had elderly relatives in all types of nursing facilities, plus I belong to two different caregiver support groups and I have never heard of anyone hiring a private CNA or any other type of paid staff to assist in care of someone in a nursing home.
Now, some places do have a system where you can request additional aide support for various tasks (extra baths, extra help with eating, extra "companionship") though the assisted living facility or nursing home and that increases your bill that month. But private hire staff coming in, nope, never heard of aanyone doing that.
Of course, I know many people who visit and assist their loved one on a frequent, even daily, basis and help in that way but I'm not even sure that the places in my area even allow outside paid staff.
The one exception is a private agency, in my area, that has RNs that "monitor care" of their client's loved one in hospitals & nursing homes & private homes. For $125 to $160 an hour (plus a travel fee) the RN will make spot checks to evaluate the care of the patient at whatever time periods the person paying the bills requests. I believe that most of their clients live out of state or are just too busy or too overwhelmed to monitor the care themselves.
Last edited by germaine2626; 10-17-2016 at 09:44 AM..
I'm looking for anyone's experience with moving parents to assisted living against their will. We were recently granted guardianship. We had to file because they weren't able to pay bills or grocery shop or cook and the house was a disaster. Due to their frailty and memory issues, it's dangerous for them to continue to be on their own in the house, even if we could get it cleaned up, which they won't allow. We currently have two care givers coming in for a few hours a day, but they're doing their best to make sure that doesn't work out.
We found a beautiful facility that will allow their dogs and enable them to be as independent as they are able. Of course they won't consider going to look because they don't see the need for any help. They complain of loneliness, and this place has friendly staff and residents and tons of activities.
My brother and I are prepared for them to be angry with us and hate us for a while, but we're hoping that getting regular meals and having other people around will help revitalize them and make their last years more pleasant.
This is breaking my heart. I honestly want what's best for them and hate that we've come to such a difficult situation.
Sorry to burst your bubble but it is always amazing to me that your parents who fed you, bathed you, changed your diaper and took care of you when you could not take care of yourself and now it is a burden for you to return the favor....
Sorry to burst your bubble but it is always amazing to me that your parents who fed you, bathed you, changed your diaper and took care of you when you could not take care of yourself and now it is a burden for you to return the favor....
IMHO, your response was sort of harsh. If you read the entire thread you would have seen that the OP and her brother are doing all that they can do to help their parents who are refusing to accept their help.
The OP is asking for suggestions of how to get her parents into a safe, and appropriate environment.
Sorry to burst your bubble but it is always amazing to me that your parents who fed you, bathed you, changed your diaper and took care of you when you could not take care of yourself and now it is a burden for you to return the favor....
I'm not sure you could be any further out in left field.
An uncaring or ungrateful child in this situation might well decide to leave the parents alone, since they are being difficult and obstinate. Then it's just a matter of time before there's a serious fall or one of them is found wandering the streets in their pajamas. Then they will have to be institutionalized and it might not be such a pleasant place as the one the OP has found.
The OP is hoping to spare them those traumatic experiences and keep them safe and comfortable. Since her parents have LTC insurance, there isn't even a financial barrier to getting them moved into an AL. The barrier is their own perception of reality.
Sort of harsh? It's so unwarranted, that it's really not even pertinent, and is best just ignored.
The older I get the more I don't even bother responding to things that are so off base, as to not even be relevant.
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