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What do you do with a belligerent elderly parent (showing signs of dementia) who keeps all personal information from you (financial and medical)? I live 600 miles away from my 86 year old mother. She recently had a driving incident and we had to take the car away. I don't live near and I only have cousins and a few of her friends to rely on. So far they have also tried to step in to speak with her but she refuses our advice. She is still capable of living on her own but is of course furious that her car is not available. I have no legal authority I'm designated as POA and patient advocate only when she is deemed incompetent, we are not at that stage yet. I am so frustrated and filled with anxiety because I can't do anything. I can view her bank accounts which are in sad shape but again have no authority to access them. Any suggestions on how to manage this road to disaster?
I think, best case scenario, that your mom needs to live closest to her caregiver. If that is you, she should be living near you. If she can no longer drive, she really might be in a pickle in her present place.
You need to discuss her situation, and you need to take charge of her finances, including paying any tax she might have neglected to pay. Do this before her situation becomes dire.
Since she is belligerent, this will be hard. I suspect she needs a physical, and possibly a med for her mood. She might also benefit from one of the drugs commonly prescribed for dementia.
What you are going through is very hard. You will need support from your family and siblings, if any. You can contact the helpline of the Alzheimer's Association for advice: 24/7 Helpline: 1.800.272.3900
You cannot win an argument with a demented person. You cannot persuade or get her to take ownership of her problems. She is incapable of understanding how fragile she is. You will have to become the parent, protecting her and keeping her safe.
I feel your pain. Without going into too much detail, let me just tell you that in the past four years, my husband and I have had lost three of our four parents, and two of them (my inlaws) were VERY uncooperative, secretive, belligerent, suspicious, etc - of everyone - and one (my dad) was the exact opposite. Both our moms had/have dementia, and both our dads were their main caregivers till they both passed away. Though both scenarios with each set of parents is heartrending and difficult, the scenario with my cooperative and trusting parents has been MUCH LESS stressful and much less expensive legally. It is terrible to have to have someone declared incapacitated and to have to file for guardianship over them because they did not have a POA. It was the most stressful time of my life.
Throw in nefarious extended family, resulting in a lawsuit from us (which we won) and having to have my inlaws' accounts completely frozen to keep horrible relatives from stealing from them, and AUGH. I was drinking three glasses of wine every evening just to be able to relax (I got a handle on that, thankfully).
We had to do it all - including taking the car keys and even considering disabling the car (I think we may have even done that eventually - I can't recall now) from my father in law. You can imagine how upset that had him.
Here's my philosophy on this:
1. When you are a dependent child, relying on your parents to support you, you are under their jurisdiction. You live where they choose. Your life is set up around their jobs, their livelihood, their preferences. When our parents become dependent on US, those tables turn. It is not the adult child's responsibility to move where THEY are, but instead the parent needs to accommodate the adult child's life this time. This may mean moving to be close to that adult child.
2. It CERTAINLY means making it easier for the adult child to help - for instance, adding one adult child to the bank account(s), putting a POA in place that doesn't rely on being deemed incompetent, being open and forthright about finances, making sure that adult child knows what to do in the event of serious illness or death (medical directives, medical POA, living will, actual will, safe deposit box keys, safe combos, where important papers are, ability to pay bills so nothing gets behind, etc).
3. It is the adult child's responsibility (in most cases) to have a serious sit down talk with the parent(s) about all this. By "serious talk" I do not mean dictating to them. I mean, a loving discussion, with all facts in front of you, examples of paperwork, etc. I think it also means that the parent is told the ramifications of NOT cooperating. Those ramifications may be vulnerability to unethical family members or acquaintances (neighbors, hired help, etc). The elderly are a screaming, red button of a target for people with unsavory motives and plans. They prey on the elderly's vulnerabilities - their loneliness, their weakness, their need for assistance, their fears, etc. Another ramification might be "If you choose to continue to live here, I simply refuse to live my life in a reactive mode. This means that you need to have a plan for emergencies - a plan that does not include me uprooting my entire life, using up all my vacation time, putting my job in jeopardy, putting great strain financially and emotionally on my family, etc. You need to understand that I simply cannot be here and give you the assistance and support you need, for the types of semi emergencies that may arise. I will have to save my time, money, and energy for absolute life or death emergencies only. That doesn't mean I'm unwilling to help you - or that I don't want to help you. I DO want to, but that requires cooperation and a plan we work out together." You also need to ask your mom what she specifically expects of you - not just what she wants, but what she thinks you will do. That answer will be enlightening.
4. I recommend going to the bank (alone) and talking with the bank manager about the situation and your fears. Bring that POA with you. You may also consider talking with your mom's doctor. I understand that the doctor may not be able to discuss some things with you due to HIPAA laws, but YOU can discuss the situation with THEM. Many doctors have a way to reach them or their nurse via email - I would do so. Also, if your mom has a financial advisor, to talk with that person as well. We did that with my inlaws, and that one conversation saved the entire situation because that financial advisor called us and told us that a relative had come in with a POA signed by my father in law (who the financial advisor knew was in the hospital deathly ill) trying to withdraw a HUGE amount of money, with a check made out to her. The financial advisor did give her the check but immediately put a stop payment on it - LOL. Anyway, my father in law was literally on his death bed and was out of his mind with MRSA and a myriad of other health issues, and a raging fever. I don't know where that woman found an attorney who would get him to sign anything but she managed to scrounge one up. Thankfully due to that financial advisor's phone call, and due to the fact that we'd already met with an estate attorney and discussed this situation in depth, we were able to IMMEDIATELY move legally and have all their assets frozen. My FIL died just four days later and that ridiculous POA was no longer in effect - and of course he had left nearly everything to his wife, my MIL, who was still alive. They got away with nothing, and that was a blessing to them, because if they'd been able to actually steal anything, we would have taken them to court and they would have lost. As it was, they did lose a civil case but we didn't press criminal charges. Ain't nobody got time fo dat.
So my point is - take the time to meet with and reach out to these very important people - banker, financial advisor, elder care/estate attorney, doctor, etc. You may have no idea which relative or friend is lurking about like a wolf in sheep's clothing. People will shock and surprise and often dismay you.
I think, best case scenario, that your mom needs to live closest to her caregiver. If that is you, she should be living near you. If she can no longer drive, she really might be in a pickle in her present place.
You need to discuss her situation, and you need to take charge of her finances, including paying any tax she might have neglected to pay. Do this before her situation becomes dire.
Since she is belligerent, this will be hard. I suspect she needs a physical, and possibly a med for her mood. She might also benefit from one of the drugs commonly prescribed for dementia.
What you are going through is very hard. You will need support from your family and siblings, if any. You can contact the helpline of the Alzheimer's Association for advice: 24/7 Helpline: 1.800.272.3900
You cannot win an argument with a demented person. You cannot persuade or get her to take ownership of her problems. She is incapable of understanding how fragile she is. You will have to become the parent, protecting her and keeping her safe.
I feel your pain. Without going into too much detail, let me just tell you that in the past four years, my husband and I have had lost three of our four parents, and two of them (my inlaws) were VERY uncooperative, secretive, belligerent, suspicious, etc - of everyone - and one (my dad) was the exact opposite. Both our moms had/have dementia, and both our dads were their main caregivers till they both passed away. Though both scenarios with each set of parents is heartrending and difficult, the scenario with my cooperative and trusting parents has been MUCH LESS stressful and much less expensive legally. It is terrible to have to have someone declared incapacitated and to have to file for guardianship over them because they did not have a POA. It was the most stressful time of my life.
Throw in nefarious extended family, resulting in a lawsuit from us (which we won) and having to have my inlaws' accounts completely frozen to keep horrible relatives from stealing from them, and AUGH. I was drinking three glasses of wine every evening just to be able to relax (I got a handle on that, thankfully).
We had to do it all - including taking the car keys and even considering disabling the car (I think we may have even done that eventually - I can't recall now) from my father in law. You can imagine how upset that had him.
Here's my philosophy on this:
1. When you are a dependent child, relying on your parents to support you, you are under their jurisdiction. You live where they choose. Your life is set up around their jobs, their livelihood, their preferences. When our parents become dependent on US, those tables turn. It is not the adult child's responsibility to move where THEY are, but instead the parent needs to accommodate the adult child's life this time. This may mean moving to be close to that adult child.
2. It CERTAINLY means making it easier for the adult child to help - for instance, adding one adult child to the bank account(s), putting a POA in place that doesn't rely on being deemed incompetent, being open and forthright about finances, making sure that adult child knows what to do in the event of serious illness or death (medical directives, medical POA, living will, actual will, safe deposit box keys, safe combos, where important papers are, ability to pay bills so nothing gets behind, etc).
3. It is the adult child's responsibility (in most cases) to have a serious sit down talk with the parent(s) about all this. By "serious talk" I do not mean dictating to them. I mean, a loving discussion, with all facts in front of you, examples of paperwork, etc. I think it also means that the parent is told the ramifications of NOT cooperating. Those ramifications may be vulnerability to unethical family members or acquaintances (neighbors, hired help, etc). The elderly are a screaming, red button of a target for people with unsavory motives and plans. They prey on the elderly's vulnerabilities - their loneliness, their weakness, their need for assistance, their fears, etc. Another ramification might be "If you choose to continue to live here, I simply refuse to live my life in a reactive mode. This means that you need to have a plan for emergencies - a plan that does not include me uprooting my entire life, using up all my vacation time, putting my job in jeopardy, putting great strain financially and emotionally on my family, etc. You need to understand that I simply cannot be here and give you the assistance and support you need, for the types of semi emergencies that may arise. I will have to save my time, money, and energy for absolute life or death emergencies only. That doesn't mean I'm unwilling to help you - or that I don't want to help you. I DO want to, but that requires cooperation and a plan we work out together." You also need to ask your mom what she specifically expects of you - not just what she wants, but what she thinks you will do. That answer will be enlightening.
4. I recommend going to the bank (alone) and talking with the bank manager about the situation and your fears. Bring that POA with you. You may also consider talking with your mom's doctor. I understand that the doctor may not be able to discuss some things with you due to HIPAA laws, but YOU can discuss the situation with THEM. Many doctors have a way to reach them or their nurse via email - I would do so. Also, if your mom has a financial advisor, to talk with that person as well. We did that with my inlaws, and that one conversation saved the entire situation because that financial advisor called us and told us that a relative had come in with a POA signed by my father in law (who the financial advisor knew was in the hospital deathly ill) trying to withdraw a HUGE amount of money, with a check made out to her. The financial advisor did give her the check but immediately put a stop payment on it - LOL. Anyway, my father in law was literally on his death bed and was out of his mind with MRSA and a myriad of other health issues, and a raging fever. I don't know where that woman found an attorney who would get him to sign anything but she managed to scrounge one up. Thankfully due to that financial advisor's phone call, and due to the fact that we'd already met with an estate attorney and discussed this situation in depth, we were able to IMMEDIATELY move legally and have all their assets frozen. My FIL died just four days later and that ridiculous POA was no longer in effect - and of course he had left nearly everything to his wife, my MIL, who was still alive. They got away with nothing, and that was a blessing to them, because if they'd been able to actually steal anything, we would have taken them to court and they would have lost. As it was, they did lose a civil case but we didn't press criminal charges. Ain't nobody got time fo dat.
So my point is - take the time to meet with and reach out to these very important people - banker, financial advisor, elder care/estate attorney, doctor, etc. You may have no idea which relative or friend is lurking about like a wolf in sheep's clothing. People will shock and surprise and often dismay you.
Excellent points. Regarding the bolded section. One of my aunts, who had early Alzheimer's at the time, was fleeced out of thousands and thousands of dollars and many family heirlooms from someone who everyone originally thought was a loving, caring new friend from her church. This con artist almost succeeded in getting my aunt to sign over her house, her property and her entire estate to her, instead of to her children as was in her previous wills.
The police ended up getting involved and it turns out that this woman who befriended her had fleeced several other elderly women, in other churches & in other cities, out of their money & estates and had been a con artist for decades.
We hadn't even had my dad's FUNERAL yet, and "friends" (neighbors of my mom) were coming over and actually going through the house and HIS CLOTHES (and took some things - minor but still - dadgummit!).
Also, recently, a youngish, disabled (not apparent, but maybe it's something we just can't see) guy who lives with his parents in my mom's neighborhood started hanging around, talking to my mom, calling her "Miss Linda" and catering to her. Wow, could I ever smell a skunk. Thankfully, she doesn't know him well and she seemed very alarmed and cognizant of the dangers when I talked with her about him. I mean, she DIDN'T see these concerns till I brought them up, but once I told her how easily he could take advantage of her, she got alarmed and immediately insisted that she will never let him in her house. I do believe she means that - however, I also think that if he pressured her, she might not be able to withstand it, trying to be nice and polite and all that.
So it is a huge relief to me that she voluntarily decided to move to a secured gated independent living facility and will be moving in a few weeks. I cannot live with her, and cannot bear the thought of her being so vulnerable and alone in her house, knowing that some very, very evil people live out there in this world, and they support themselves by fleecing the elderly. It is HORRIBLE. There's a hot place in hell for people like that.
Hell, even my own brother, who is mentally ill and 100 percent disabled by it, had the "brilliant idea" that he could come live with mom and " take care of her." Uh huh - take care of himself, he meant. Yeah, that's all I need - a mentally ill person and a person with dementia living together right down the road. He'd have every penny of my mother's money spent in short order, and he'd be smoking in her house!!!!!!!!!! And driving her crazy the whole time - and expecting her to iron his clothes and do his laundry and cook breakfast for him. And she'd be doing it - miserably.
OP, one thing you ought to do if you can - and I know this sounds horrible but if your mom won't cooperate, then you may not have a choice - go through her papers and drawers and such. Not sure how you can do that, but try if you can. Just to find out where she banks, if she has a financial advisor, etc.
Like someone said earlier, you are now the parent unfortunately. You may need to treat your mom like she is a belligerent, rebellious, uncooperative teenage girl. How would you handle that situation when you knew that girl was a danger to herself and could be taken advantage of? That's the mindset you need to be in. It's hard. I'm sorry.
I would second and third every piece of advice you've been given. If there is any way you can get her to the doctor for an evaluation, please do so as soon as possible. Aside from possible medicine to help, you may find that your mother is legally not competent and your POA comes into play immediately. The doctor will probably strongly recommend to your mother that she move into assisted living. Unfortunately, at least in our state, a POA still limits your ability to make other living arrangements if your mother disagrees.
My folks were completely uncooperative, so we ended up having to file for guardianship and I truly hope it doesn't come to that with your mother. I know only too well how difficult it is to take charge and listen to accusations that you are interfering and treating them badly.
Just remember that no one cares about your mother more than you do. I'm sure she had to make tough decisions that you hated when you were growing up, and now you'll have to do the same. I can remember hating my parents when I was a rebellious teen, but I got over it. Hopefully, they will do the same.
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