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Old 06-19-2017, 07:49 PM
 
3,232 posts, read 2,300,058 times
Reputation: 7131

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Oh I totally agree with all this. I've already stepped back some and I'm about to step WAY back.

For instance, the meds administrator - I don't tinker with that, certainly not around my mom. My mom fights her all on her own. Spitting her pills out on the floor, cussing at her - that's with me nowhere around.

I am going to ask the facility administrator if they will tell my mom themselves that she is going to have to move out. Without me present. I'm not sure if they will do that but I'm going to ask. There's no way my mom can find a place to move on her own, by the way. I'm sure you know that but I'm saying that because I seriously doubt they will tell her that either. But they may sit down with her without me and gently tell her that she is no longer in the best place for her so she will be moving.

I will let her intensive outpatient mental healthcare team tell her that they are dropping her from the program. They are also the ones who are going to probably have her committed also. Maybe they can do that without me. We'll see. I hope so.

Her doctor already told her that if she doesn't take her meds she will go to a Memory Care facility that is basically lock down. Of course, I had to be there for that because I had to take her to the doctor.

She will also be giving up church too. She will really, really hate that. But I don't think I am going to commit to going to pick her up and drop her off every week. I'll have to think about that but I don't think I'm going to do that.

None of this is punitive. It's simply the ramifications of her mental illness and her choices within that framework. But it's so hard to watch go down.
If only we could protect our loved ones from themselves. It's all so hard and so very sad.

 
Old 06-19-2017, 07:57 PM
 
21,108 posts, read 13,411,210 times
Reputation: 19717
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
yeah I could get where he was coming from but still.. she would have lied to him and me anyway. I guess he probably knew it was pointless to try to convince her. I mean, he was telling her about lockdown and memory care facilities and all that and she was completely nonplussed - because she doesn't believe any of that will happen to her and if it does - WELL, KATIE BAR THE DOOR BECAUSE SHE'S GOING TO FIGHT FIGHT AGAINST THE DYING OF THE LIGHT and all that good stuff.

Yeah, have fun with all that, you old, unreasonable, ridiculous hippie. Got news for ya - DA MAN is not out to get you.
Unfortunately that is not unusual for MI people to believe. I'm glad she is going in-patient. I hope it's soon. Last time, how long did they keep her? Was it tied to finishing therapy for her hip, or ??????
 
Old 06-19-2017, 07:59 PM
 
3,232 posts, read 2,300,058 times
Reputation: 7131
>>I still - even at age 55 - feel hurt over her complete lack of trust or affection or love for me.<<

Isn't it sad that we want our parents' approval our whole life long and some parents are just not able of giving us what we need? Some people are simply incapable of providing love and affection to their children. Of course they shouldn't have had kids in the first place.

Last edited by BrassTacksGal; 06-19-2017 at 08:11 PM..
 
Old 06-19-2017, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,666 posts, read 60,197,371 times
Reputation: 100999
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrassTacksGal View Post
It would be so difficult to zip up jeans from the back! I don't know how she even did it!
Oh, they weren't zipped up - which made things worse. But she did have a belt on. Now THAT is an accomplishment.
 
Old 06-19-2017, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,666 posts, read 60,197,371 times
Reputation: 100999
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
Unfortunately that is not unusual for MI people to believe. I'm glad she is going in-patient. I hope it's soon. Last time, how long did they keep her? Was it tied to finishing therapy for her hip, or ??????
They generally only keep people for two weeks. And they were supposed to call me back today but didn't. So if I don't hear from them by tomorrow afternoon I'm calling them back.

Last time, yes it was in conjunction with her breaking her hip. But it wasn't because of the broken hip, which actually healed really well. It was because they picked up on her MI while she was in the hospital for the broken hip. And then she wouldn't cooperate with therapy for the hip because of the MI. Then my dad said she wasn't coming home in that condition because he couldn't take care of her (true). But they weren't going to send her home like that anyway - she went from rehab (which was a joke because she wouldn't cooperate) to in patient, then home with meds, which she took - with much management and cajoling and threatening from family - for about a year. She steadily improved, then my dad died. She actually did stay on the meds as far as I can tell till about two months ago - when she turned a corner and began to feel stronger and to feel like "she didn't need these meds." Classic.

So she stopped taking them and began to really crater again. This time the descent has been alarming and quick. I've seen a huge difference just over the past month or so especially. Wow, she has really gotten hard to communicate with, and absolutely impossible to reason with.

Her psychiatric team feels that she is borderline being a real danger to herself, and maybe even others. Mostly herself. But it's not at a crisis stage, so they are going to try to get her admitted along with coordinating with her facility, her other doctor, etc.

I hope we can keep things calm.

I am planning on staying out of it as much as possible.
 
Old 06-19-2017, 08:17 PM
 
4,407 posts, read 3,418,613 times
Reputation: 14168
Kathryn, I'm so sorry you are facing all of this. You found a beautiful place for your mom, a place where she could have thrived, but she is her own worst enemy. Or I guess I should say that mind of hers is her enemy. It is a tragic situation all around. For her -- and for you, because I know, as a caring daughter with a clear sense of duty, you want your mom to have a peaceful and happy life. You have done everything in your power to make that happen. Your Dad would be really, really proud of you.
 
Old 06-19-2017, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,666 posts, read 60,197,371 times
Reputation: 100999
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrassTacksGal View Post
>>I still - even at age 55 - feel hurt over her complete lack of trust or affection or love for me.<<

Isn't it sad that we want our parents' approval our whole life long and some parents are just not able of giving us what we need? Some people are simply incapable of providing love and affection to their children. Of course they shouldn't have had kids in the first place.
Amen to that.
 
Old 06-19-2017, 08:42 PM
 
21,108 posts, read 13,411,210 times
Reputation: 19717
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
They generally only keep people for two weeks. And they were supposed to call me back today but didn't. So if I don't hear from them by tomorrow afternoon I'm calling them back.

Last time, yes it was in conjunction with her breaking her hip. But it wasn't because of the broken hip, which actually healed really well. It was because they picked up on her MI while she was in the hospital for the broken hip. And then she wouldn't cooperate with therapy for the hip because of the MI. Then my dad said she wasn't coming home in that condition because he couldn't take care of her (true). But they weren't going to send her home like that anyway - she went from rehab (which was a joke because she wouldn't cooperate) to in patient, then home with meds, which she took - with much management and cajoling and threatening from family - for about a year. She steadily improved, then my dad died. She actually did stay on the meds as far as I can tell till about two months ago - when she turned a corner and began to feel stronger and to feel like "she didn't need these meds." Classic.

So she stopped taking them and began to really crater again. This time the descent has been alarming and quick. I've seen a huge difference just over the past month or so especially. Wow, she has really gotten hard to communicate with, and absolutely impossible to reason with.

Her psychiatric team feels that she is borderline being a real danger to herself, and maybe even others. Mostly herself. But it's not at a crisis stage, so they are going to try to get her admitted along with coordinating with her facility, her other doctor, etc.

I hope we can keep things calm.

I am planning on staying out of it as much as possible.
Greatness. God Bless them. I hope they get her in soon.
 
Old 06-19-2017, 08:59 PM
 
10,599 posts, read 17,789,535 times
Reputation: 17349
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I've cried all day. Just got off the phone with the administrator of her current facility, who agreed with me to give her a few weeks, but that if she doesn't comply with her meds and therapy, she needs to move out of this particular facility and into memory care. She was very kind but she said, as I fully expected to hear, that as it stands right now, my mom is not suited for either Independent Living or even Assisted Living, due solely to her non compliance with her meds. See, they can see an obvious and nearly immediate difference with my mom when she's on meds. But she won't stay on them, so there you have it.

At least she is going to go talk to her without me there - trying to encourage her to comply with basic human sociological appropriateness. She does not have high hopes but she's willing to make the effort. I really appreciate that.

Looks like, barring a miracle, my mom will be moving to a memory care facility shortly.
Your mother's quick decline is related to loss of her husband and home. With every loss they get more advanced. Also with every move. Also with every physical episode of some injury. Then there's the medication issue. Sporadic medication administration makes them worse.

Although it's NOT a "quick decline". Go read the beginning of your own thread. She's been "bad" this whole year. Even the other very very obvious dementia behavior about fixating on appointments.

Independent Living and Assisted Living are not for mentally ill people unless in the ALF, they are one hundred percent cooperative and easy to deal with.

Memory Care is not a facility for noncompliant mentally ill people who are unable to be controlled with meds. It's no different than Assisted Living in that respect. And no, it's not like jail - she can go anywhere she wants if you take her. (church)

She can easily be kicked out of there, too. It happens all the time.

The "lockdown" that everyone is citing is simply to prevent elopement of "normal" people but if they become too high risk then something has to be done and they get under control or get kicked out.

Perhaps the Admin think they will have more success with her over there because they actually KNOW what they're doing with dementia but she's got more than that.

Then...

Your doctor/they will need to involuntarily commit her under the 72 hour probable cause hearing law and a judge will either release her ROR or assign her to a state or community facility.

Texas - Treatment Advocacy Center



Sec. 576.025. ADMINISTRATION OF PSYCHOACTIVE MEDICATION. (a) A person may not administer a psychoactive medication to a patient receiving voluntary or involuntary mental health services who refuses the administration unless:
(1) the patient is having a medication-related emergency;
(2) the patient is younger than 16 years of age, or the patient is younger than 18 years of age and is a patient admitted for voluntary mental health services under Section 572.002(3)(B), and the patient's parent, managing conservator, or guardian consents to the administration on behalf of the patient;
(3) the refusing patient's representative authorized by law to consent on behalf of the patient has consented to the administration;
(4) the administration of the medication regardless of the patient's refusal is authorized by an order issued under Section 574.106; or
(5) the administration of the medication regardless of the patient's refusal is authorized by an order issued under Article 46B.086, Code of Criminal Procedure.
(b) Consent to the administration of psychoactive medication given by a patient or by a person authorized by law to consent on behalf of the patient is valid only if:
(1) the consent is given voluntarily and without coercive or undue influence;
(2) the treating physician or a person designated by the physician provided the following information, in a standard format approved by the department, to the patient and, if applicable, to the patient's representative authorized by law to consent on behalf of the patient:
(A) the specific condition to be treated;
(B) the beneficial effects on that condition expected from the medication;
(C) the probable health and mental health consequences of not consenting to the medication;
(D) the probable clinically significant side effects and risks associated with the medication;
(E) the generally accepted alternatives to the medication, if any, and why the physician recommends that they be rejected; and
(F) the proposed course of the medication;
(3) the patient and, if appropriate, the patient's representative authorized by law to consent on behalf of the patient is informed in writing that consent may be revoked; and
(4) the consent is evidenced in the patient's clinical record by a signed form prescribed by the facility or by a statement of the treating physician or a person designated by the physician that documents that consent was given by the appropriate person and the circumstances under which the consent was obtained.
(c) If the treating physician designates another person to provide the information under Subsection (b), then, not later than two working days after that person provides the information, excluding weekends and legal holidays, the physician shall meet with the patient and, if appropriate, the patient's representative who provided the consent, to review the information and answer any questions.
(d) A patient's refusal or attempt to refuse to receive psychoactive medication, whether given verbally or by other indications or means, shall be documented in the patient's clinical record.
(e) In prescribing psychoactive medication, a treating physician shall:
(1) prescribe, consistent with clinically appropriate medical care, the medication that has the fewest side effects or the least potential for adverse side effects, unless the class of medication has been demonstrated or justified not to be effective clinically; and
(2) administer the smallest therapeutically acceptable dosages of medication for the patient's condition.
(f) If a physician issues an order to administer psychoactive medication to a patient without the patient's consent because the patient is having a medication-related emergency:
(1) the physician shall document in the patient's clinical record in specific medical or behavioral terms the necessity of the order and that the physician has evaluated but rejected other generally accepted, less intrusive forms of treatment, if any; and
(2) treatment of the patient with the psychoactive medication shall be provided in the manner, consistent with clinically appropriate medical care, least restrictive of the patient's personal liberty.
(g) In this section, "medication-related emergency" and "psychoactive medication" have the meanings assigned by Section 574.101.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u...htm/HS.576.htm

Last edited by runswithscissors; 06-19-2017 at 09:50 PM..
 
Old 06-19-2017, 09:17 PM
 
10,599 posts, read 17,789,535 times
Reputation: 17349
You should also get a swallow study done on her. Is she having trouble swallowing the pills.

A side effect of Seroquel.

And yes the best thing you can do is stay away. Let her be forced to build relationships with the people there. She may find an aide she likes and will cooperate with.

Last edited by runswithscissors; 06-19-2017 at 09:26 PM..
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