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Okay, that brings up another question, if she sells the house, what about the medical bills that they may still have? I know there's no judgments. Her total bill from her heart attacks was over a million, dad had some minor things done. I have no idea what balances they have left after medicare and their supplemental policies.
I can do this, I can do this....
Put all the Medicare EOMB (Explanation of Medical Benefits) notices in a folder. Those are bills paid by Medicare and explain what remains the responsibility of a secondary payor or the beneficiary (mom or dad).
Put her secondary medical insurance notices in another folder. Those are the portion of the bills paid by her private insurance.
Put all other medical bills in a separate folder. Those are the ones where the hospital, nursing homes, contract medical service providers, labs, etc. are billing your mom or dad because they are not covered by the above. This is what you have to worry about.
If you feel you're missing information, you can set up online accounts with both the Medicare and private insurer to view the claims (billing) history for each parent. You'll need 2 or 4 accounts. You probably don't need to do this step though unless you have disputes.
I'd organize all the folders' contents in order of most recent notices first till the last notice in the folder is the oldest one.
They're the ones least likely to have been paid off.
You might find some of the medical bills have been paid off by credit card. If the cards were issued in your dad's name, she may not have to pay them off.
We just received the hospital bill for ONE trip to the ER by my hubby, and it was $21,000. That did not count the ambulance or the doctor's bills (those will come later). He has Medicare and a good supplemental insurance, but it may still add up to a bundle.
Yes, one illness can really wipe you out financially.
Just an FYI on those hospital bills. The original bills are astronomical but it is not what either Medicare or your insurance will allow them to charge. Once Medicare and/or insurance gets their hands on it and reduces it (which they do) you only pay whatever your policy says on the amount they determined is reasonable. So that $21,000 bill maybe reduced to $9,000 and of that Insurance and or Medicare pays $8,000* you are only responsible for $1000*, no more no less. You are not responsible for the difference between $8,000 and $21,000. If the doctors/hospitals try and tell you that they are wrong.
*numbers are for example only, they may vary depending on policy.
To OP you are doing the right thing, however, you and your siblings may want to talk with an estate lawyer in your mothers area to make sure all your ducks are in a row before selling. It will cost you but well worth it.
I spent more than 10 years doing elder care for my parents. It was what they wanted. I can say for sure they would have been better off living in a place where they could have interacted with others. I managed but after working full time, caring for them and the house/yard, and medical appointments, I had no time left to insure they had a social life. They just existed.
If the house is all mom has there may be no probate if the house was joint tenancy. But someone has to get all the papers together and make sure it's all in the right name and all the bills have been submitted to insurance. And there should be at least POD on all her accounts.
It's probably a good idea for her to live with you till the house is sold and done. Then she needs to choose where she wants to go. Don't be too quick to run in and pay everything. As long as she has money, she should pay. Let her rent a small storage unit for the stuff she wants to keep. Make sure the storage unit is no bigger than what you can fit in a 1br apartment. Don't actually move her in to your house. Just clothes and what will meet her immediate needs. Then you can help her with sorting, getting rid of stuff, and cleaning up the legal mess.
I spent more than 10 years doing elder care for my parents. It was what they wanted. I can say for sure they would have been better off living in a place where they could have interacted with others. I managed but after working full time, caring for them and the house/yard, and medical appointments, I had no time left to insure they had a social life. They just existed.
If the house is all mom has there may be no probate if the house was joint tenancy. But someone has to get all the papers together and make sure it's all in the right name and all the bills have been submitted to insurance. And there should be at least POD on all her accounts.
It's probably a good idea for her to live with you till the house is sold and done. Then she needs to choose where she wants to go. Don't be too quick to run in and pay everything. As long as she has money, she should pay. Let her rent a small storage unit for the stuff she wants to keep. Make sure the storage unit is no bigger than what you can fit in a 1br apartment. Don't actually move her in to your house. Just clothes and what will meet her immediate needs. Then you can help her with sorting, getting rid of stuff, and cleaning up the legal mess.
That happened to a friend of mine. The wife's mom & dad moved in "for a couple of weeks" after they sold their house, in another state, to give them time to find a new place. They expected my friend and her husband to pay ALL of their bills, buy ALL of their food, play ALL of their expenses when the group went to restaurants or on vacations, etc. etc. Even though they had just sold their house for $200,000 plus had other savings.
At first it was not a problem, even though it was a huge financial struggle for the couple, because the parents were only planning to stay for a short time. But after months and months and years of saying that "they did not have any money" it was pretty frustrating.
But, Mom & Dad did find the money to buy terrible expensive gifts for the grandchildren that they did not live with like a new car and new computers and paying a few semesters of college tuition, but claimed that they "did not have any money to buy the grandchildren that they lived with the same presents and gave them nothing at all.
Mom & Dad treated their daughter & SIL, who they lived with & did everything for them, like absolutely crap and thought that their other daughter who only came to visit them one weekend every few years (even through she & her family vacationed all around the US & world each year) was their "favorite", the "golden child".
There is A LOT more to this story, but, the caregiver sister felt awfully taken advantage of, and really regretted that she did not ask her parents for money to pay their expenses when they moved it. But, she & her family thought that it would only be a few weeks not several years.
But, every family is different, so do what you think is best. OP, I know that your mom does not have a lot of money, but I would watch for her spending it all on the other siblings & other grandchildren, while expecting you and hubby to pay all of her bills.
That is another reason for a family meeting, because I would not be surprised if some of your siblings may expect you to have mom move in, and stay forever, for free.
Good luck.
Last edited by germaine2626; 02-20-2017 at 05:09 PM..
That happened to a friend of mine. The wife's mom & dad moved in "for a couple of weeks" after they sold their house, in another state, to give them time to find a new place. They expected my friend and her husband to pay ALL of their bills, buy ALL of their food, play ALL of their expenses when the group went to restaurants or on vacations, etc. etc. Even though they had just sold their house for $200,000 plus had other savings.
What we have to offer is space in our home, we actually have 3 empty bedrooms plus about 1000 sf of a rec room, nicer weather, plus proximity to more grandkids and great grandkids. We don't have cash to pay for her bills. And even if I did, I wouldn't. Good warning.
Don't worry about it. Seriously, what's the rush? You're not only going to drive yourself crazy, you're going to drive your mother crazy as well.
If your father had any leftover bills, so what? Any interested party can open your father's estate, including a creditor. My mother died ten years ago and my father never opened an estate for her. My friend's widowed mother died and she never opened an estate for her mother and she's an attorney. As for your mother possibly having potential bills, again, forget about it. Her creditors, if any, will contact her.
Actually it's much better to be ahead of the game. creditors will settle but if they don't get contacted, and have to go to the estate, they won't settle.
It isn't as hard as it sounds. These bills will come in the mail. You get as many death certs as you need to send to them and discover which have to be paid and maybe some don't.
It's possible, depending on the state, that some unsecured debts cannot make a claim against the estate, but it's a terrible idea to just 'see if they do'.
I collected all of my mother's mail and pulled her credit report to make sure that I knew every penny she owed and to whom.
This sounds overwhelming for your mother. Maybe give her some large envelopes pre-addressed and with postage to send once a week anything she is not sure how to deal with.
You can contact the creditors and let them know he passed away. They will provide information on where to send the notification of his death and the notarized copy of the death certificate. There is an in-house department that handles estates. If bills are in his name only, they are handled by the estate or through probate.
If you have trouble finding information, you might need to get a credit report or go to the courthouse to search the land records.
They probably don't need the expense of probate. Since everything passed to her automatically. They will need to handle the bills themselves and in fact during probate one still has to deal with it themselves.
I did not have to go to probate but if I had it would have been the same as what I did. Up to me to deal with creditors.
Beware the "too expensive" assumptions. Yes, assisted living and any form of nursing type home will be expensive.
However, there are senior apartments with all kinds of living situations like condo-like, apartments, shared living arrangements, etc. My mom has a first floor large one bedroom with great storage, full kitchen, great maintenance team (due to size of whole complex), activities, scheduled bus service, etc. for $800 a month. On the bus she can got to a variety of large stores, the best mall, doctor visits, etc. She can arrange for home delivery of groceries and any home health needs for additional $$. We feel so comfortable that she is there.
While looking, we found a number of these apartment complexes. It depends on where you live and often the subsidized units (mom is not in one of these) require application and getting on the waiting lists. Something to do sooner rather than later.
That's awesome. I think my mother would have like that a lot. My grandmother enjoyed greatly living in independent living but the place did more for the residents and therefore cost more. I wasn't thinking about senior complexes for people who don't need any assistance but get to have the benefits you described here.
Maybe we don't have them here, IDK. My grandmother really didn't need much help at first, but all the places here were sky-high.
She paid a lot in AZ but everywhere here was twice as much. She chose this place which was amazing. The price includes utilities, light housekeeping once a week, two meals a day, IIRC, basic cable, she could go to the dining room or pay $2 for the meal to be brought to her, I actually wanted to live there! Of course they were built to accommodate wheelchairs and such - big wide doors for scooters and to get into the shower. I don't remember what else brought the cost up from a complex that is just made for seniors. I just remember I saw the value of it for those who could afford and actually $2100/month is not a lot for eveything they get some people just don't have that amount.
That happened to a friend of mine. The wife's mom & dad moved in "for a couple of weeks" after they sold their house, in another state, to give them time to find a new place. They expected my friend and her husband to pay ALL of their bills, buy ALL of their food, play ALL of their expenses when the group went to restaurants or on vacations, etc. etc. Even though they had just sold their house for $200,000 plus had other savings.
At first it was not a problem, even though it was a huge financial struggle for the couple, because the parents were only planning to stay for a short time. But after months and months and years of saying that "they did not have any money" it was pretty frustrating.
But, Mom & Dad did find the money to buy terrible expensive gifts for the grandchildren that they did not live with like a new car and new computers and paying a few semesters of college tuition, but claimed that they "did not have any money to buy the grandchildren that they lived with the same presents and gave them nothing at all.
Mom & Dad treated their daughter & SIL, who they lived with & did everything for them, like absolutely crap and thought that their other daughter who only came to visit them one weekend every few years (even through she & her family vacationed all around the US & world each year) was their "favorite", the "golden child".
There is A LOT more to this story, but, the caregiver sister felt awfully taken advantage of, and really regretted that she did not ask her parents for money to pay their expenses when they moved it. But, she & her family thought that it would only be a few weeks not several years.
But, every family is different, so do what you think is best. OP, I know that your mom does not have a lot of money, but I would watch for her spending it all on the other siblings & other grandchildren, while expecting you and hubby to pay all of her bills.
That is another reason for a family meeting, because I would not be surprised if some of your siblings may expect you to have mom move in, and stay forever, for free.
Good luck.
Well how come your friend never said "Hold the show, you just sold your house for $200,000, you didn't buy another one or even rent one, you have money, you sold your house".
This wasn't a case of parents being evicted out a one bedroom apt. due to non payment of rent.
Did your friend and their spouse not have a tongue in their head? They played a big role in this.
Clearly it wasn't a caregiving situation as you stated they were traveling on vacations and eating out in restaurants.
Can't have too much empathy for people who let someone(family or not) pull something like this.
What we have to offer is space in our home, we actually have 3 empty bedrooms plus about 1000 sf of a rec room, nicer weather, plus proximity to more grandkids and great grandkids. We don't have cash to pay for her bills. And even if I did, I wouldn't. Good warning.
Kara, I am assuming you are married since you are referring to "we". How does your husband feel about your mother moving in? Temporarily is one thing, but as others have said, be aware that temporary can change into permanent. Then you have another scenario altogether.
I agree with the necessity of a family meeting to discuss your mother's situation. Who will pay your mother's bills when her money runs out? Who will cover for you when you go on vacation? Who will be available to participate in doctor visits, hospitalization, etc.? If you want your privacy back, who will chip in for assisted living if the cost is beyond your mother's income? Is the family willing to do that?
I have friends who found out quite quickly that whoever the parent lives with generally becomes increasingly responsible for the elderly patent's ongoing health and care. It can cause problems within the family even though everyone originally starts out helpful.
I know you are all still in shock but try to learn from others and think ahead. Your own health and marriage will thank you.
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