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OP, so sorry that you're in this mess. I can tell that you love your parents and want the best for them.
My brother and I were talking about our parents, right before dad died, about how he was no longer able to make all the decisions he used to, in order to move them out of the big house, and how mom would have to take over. Then he died, she's there now by herself, with the grief of losing dad, she is now the one that has to decide everything and it is overwhelming. She doesn't have any money and won't, until she decides to sell the house. No one is giving her money to pay for anything else, she wants a car, too bad, sell the house first.
So in your case, things were done out of order, in love, but I think you need to be very direct with them.
- They are not moving back. Period. Exclamation point.
- They have to list the house today. No changing minds, they moved out, they must sell the house.
If your mom hasn't been involved in their finances, she probably doesn't understand that they don't have any money. If your dad worked for the IRS, he probably is only getting the Federal pension, and no social security, unless he worked other jobs over the years.
I like Kathryn's tactic of having the realtor take the papers for them to sign.
OP, so sorry that you're in this mess. I can tell that you love your parents and want the best for them.
My brother and I were talking about our parents, right before dad died, about how he was no longer able to make all the decisions he used to, in order to move them out of the big house, and how mom would have to take over. Then he died, she's there now by herself, with the grief of losing dad, she is now the one that has to decide everything and it is overwhelming. She doesn't have any money and won't, until she decides to sell the house. No one is giving her money to pay for anything else, she wants a car, too bad, sell the house first.
So in your case, things were done out of order, in love, but I think you need to be very direct with them.
- They are not moving back. Period. Exclamation point.
- They have to list the house today. No changing minds, they moved out, they must sell the house.
If your mom hasn't been involved in their finances, she probably doesn't understand that they don't have any money. If your dad worked for the IRS, he probably is only getting the Federal pension, and no social security, unless he worked other jobs over the years.
I like Kathryn's tactic of having the realtor take the papers for them to sign.
Thanks and I agree with your entire post.
I'd like to add that they need to price their house to SELL, not to keep. Our realtor priced my mom's house about $1 less per square foot than the surrounding homes. We had a signed contract three days later and the closing was within a few weeks. What a huge relief to get that house off our plates.
I hired a person who does make readys and some commercial housekeeping to clear everything that was left out of the house and clean it to professional standards. I also told her to take whatever she wanted. This was after the family members came through and removed nostalgic items and antiques that various people wanted. What we did was give everyone 2 weeks to either come take stuff or shut up about it. We actually had the probate attorney send siblings a letter with exact dates because we had one brother who was griping that "everything is being done without him" and "such and such is his, or was promised to him" yada yada yada but he wanted to task other family members (in other words, ME) to go over there and move "his" stuff. No way. I didn't want it. He's ten years younger than me. I'm a middle aged woman with a middle aged husband. We aren't in the sibling moving business. He lives 6 hours away - not an "undoable" drive to take care of personal business, but he's lazy. So the letter from the attorney saying that everyone had X number of days to remove anything they wanted worked well.
Anyway, long story short, we hired someone to do the work. What I removed out of the house prior to selling it was the nostalgic stuff I was aware of (photos, paintings, a few collectible items), my dad's hard drive/computer (my other brother has it), and paperwork. I brought a filing cabinet to my house and filed all their stuff. I threw away a TON of stuff. We told the woman who cleaned it that we didn't care what she did with what was left over - she could keep it, sell it, donate it, we didn't care. I think she did a little of all of the above and that's fine by me - we didn't have to do it and that's what mattered to me.
Oh and when my lazy brother got that letter, he somehow managed to get "his" stuff. He tried and tried and tried to get me to "help" him but sorry - no way. All I helped him with was I gathered up some small stuff - stuff that would fit in my car - and I did box that up for him - it was mostly small mementos. But as for furniture or larger items? Come get it or shut up about it. He got someone - some sap somewhere, who knows, some old buddy of his - to come move "his" stuff into their garage! Well, someone else can enable him but it's not going to be me. Now those poor people actually moved his stuff and it's cluttering up their garage and will probably be sitting there for years - till they finally finish moving it up to wherever he lives just to get it out of their house. That's how he rolls. But it's not my problem.
I'm telling the OP all this because until you go through it, the pitfalls can hit out of left field. We had thankfully already been through one set of elderly, dying, cranky, unreasonable, sick, angry, pitiful parents (my husband's) the year before, so we knew we were entering a quagmire but we also knew how to stave some of the dysfunctional stuff off.
OP, this forum is a great help. Weigh all the advice carefully. And don't let sick, unreasonable people push you around! You have your own retirement to look after. THAT is your first priority - it's not working and paying for other people's mistakes and dysfunctional behavior. Keep that in mind.
Next time your parents call, tell them to call your brother. Sounds like they are taking advantage of you and your DH for money and you are allowing it. DON"T give them any more money! Don't fly there! Disengage! They want to make their own choices in life, let them, but don't get involved. There are two of them. Let them work it out. Don't make their problems yours.
Never EVER give them money or cosign anything! If they don't want to give you their financial situation, then they're on their own. They chose the life they wanted to live and lived it. Now you have the right to live your life how you choose. They are choosing to keep their house and because of this they allegedly don't have rent money. That's their choice, and they must live with it.
$6,000 a month is a nice income. They may be saving their money so their poor sonny boy inherits something. Ask me how I know about that situation....
It's time for tough love. Alleged dementia or not.....
Getting the elder life bridge loan while waiting for the house to sell would solve so many problems - it's interest only, they set up a line of credit and he only would request each month the amount he needs. The monthly payment is $7 per $1000 borrowed - and their senior community reimburses the interest they pay up to $1000 or one year - so it's more or less free money up to that point, it seems.
Yes you're over your head.
I apologize in advance if I missed something but there's a lot of words here.
Choices were made that seem to be not easily "fixable". Who organized this plan?
And your information is too confusing. Not really factual at all. No offense but we're not clairvoyant.
NO medical information.
NO financial information
NO living arrangement information.
I.E. this casual statement seems to imply they moved to a CCRC (continuing care retirement community) - which will give them a "bridge loan". Maybe I missed that part or did you? Which would be GREAT for them if it IS.
IT IS A MAJOR FACTOR.
THAT is why I asked you what you were BRIDGING...because that usually means a loan between two HOME OWNERSHIP contracts. NOTHING to do with renting an apartment. So THIS "bridge loan" is to cover the period of time between CONTRACTING with the CCRC and actually SELLING the old house so they can get their equity payment and do their monthly fees.
I stipulate I don't know about EVERY TYPE of CCRC and their policies but I do know the generic way they operate.
IT's POSSIBLE your parents are in there on a TRIAL basis. That would be good. OTHERWISE.....
That is NOT a typical "apartment with rent" configuration once you sign a contract.
Did they contract for or pay an entry fee? An equity fee? A large LUMP SUM like $80,000 or more? Likely that's deferred until the house sells?
They would have had to go through a qualifying financial procedure. And they just don't LET you move in there without qualifying you. And I wonder if they even did an assessment on your mother or even KNOW what's going on.
Did you even see the paperwork? It's not FREE MONEY. There is a CONTRACT somewhere.
This "rent" you mention.... is or will be.... their monthly PAYMENT to the CCRC.
This means they get "lifetime care" as a quasi long term care insurance in exchange for their equity payment and monthly fee. Typically includes Independent, to Assisted, to Memory Care, to Skilled.
I'm guessing If they default on their "rent" PAYMENTS, the CCRC will get a lien against the house.
YOU NEED AN ELDER CARE ATTORNEY and to get INTO YOUR FATHER'S FINANCES.
Alternatively, it will play out.
It always does.
Your goal should be to get the POAs, understand their finances, and get the damn house sold asap and finalize the CCRC if that's what it is.
YOUR MOTHER IS ONE FALL OR MEDICAL EVENT AWAY FROM NEEDING MEMORY CARE. A FAR CRY FROM INDEPENDENT LIVING.
Last edited by runswithscissors; 06-09-2017 at 09:37 AM..
Next time your parents call, tell them to call your brother. Sounds like they are taking advantage of you and your DH for money and you are allowing it. DON"T give them any more money! Don't fly there! Disengage! They want to make their own choices in life, let them, but don't get involved. There are two of them. Let them work it out. Don't make their problems yours.
Never EVER give them money or cosign anything! If they don't want to give you their financial situation, then they're on their own. They chose the life they wanted to live and lived it. Now you have the right to live your life how you choose. They are choosing to keep their house and because of this they allegedly don't have rent money. That's their choice, and they must live with it.
$6,000 a month is a nice income. They may be saving their money so their poor sonny boy inherits something. Ask me how I know about that situation....
It's time for tough love. Alleged dementia or not.....
I don't think this resembles ANYTHING that's going on at all.
I don't think this resembles ANYTHING that's going on at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
Interesting. I think it's a possible scenario the OP needs to consider.
Yes. While I disagree with bbtondo's tone, when someone asks you for financial assistance, it becomes perfectly acceptable and rational to stick your beak into their financial business and see what's going on.
They may balk at that but now that they've asked for financial assistance, it is completely reasonable for you to ask for a POA and to have an accurate picture of their finances.
You can't enable unhealthy behavior or underwrite the life of a Nigerian Prince that's really going to send your mother his lottery winnings.
I have read through this thread and apologize if I have missed this fact, but how did your parents actually get into this villa community? Communities like this usually require a lengthy application demanding a list of assets, income, savings, etc. You usually just cannot walk up and rent a senior villa without proving you have the finances to pay in the future. Did your dad do that or is this truly just a monthly agreement?
I agree your money flow needs to stop. You need a durable POA and probably a medical POA as well for both parents. Your mom is exhibiting signs of dementia and it is draining and upsetting to your dad, who may be in denial. Since you have footed the bill and they may expect more in the future, you have a stake in where all their money has gone/is going and why they cannot come up with $4,000 at a minimum. Something is off.
As far as wanting to move back to her house, my mother would said that also. She would declare her "good neighbors" could take her grocery shopping, to the doctor appointments, etc. (which would not have happened). Strangely enough, two of those "good neighbors" died within 2 years of her moving and they were 25 years younger than her! I understand the sentiment the elderly feel for their homes, but that sentiment cannot override issues of safety plus throwing overbearing responsibilities on the shoulders of their families. It would be better if she did not return to the house and stir up her feelings.
You are in quite a difficult situation and I wish you well. Just don't go down the road that jepardizes your own family and future based on the unknown.
Interesting. I think it's a possible scenario the OP needs to consider.
While it may be true the parents are not disclosing their financial status, YOU more than anyone should acknowledge that they are not of sound mind which means it's not some evil PLOT.
You're been here long enough (and a victim of LOL) these crazy family situations.
AND that very often the OPs don't even know what's really going or have their own blinders.
I'm not saying they don't have the money. I'm saying the entire story is goofy and the parents are not stable people. And usually that is a vicious circle that includes the whole family LOL.
THE MAN WANTS TO TAKE OUT A CREDIT UNION LOAN FOR GOODNESS SAKES!
THE MOTHER HAS DEMENTIA. AND MAYBE THE FATHER SLIGHTLY, TOO.
THEY CAN'T GET THE "BRIDGE LOAN" BECAUSE OF THE MOTHER'S DEMENTIA
He's not even thinking properly that he could use his home equity.
OR ARE THE CHILDREN SABOTAGING IT? Or they can't get one because of the mother's dementia, too.
It's difficult to get through the wall of text with all the incidentals ("there's a Walmart nearby") and extract any real FACTS once you get past the emotion.
This is basically the same old story wrapped in a different package. THESE particular parents just happened to bounce on into a CCRC, it seems, before selling their house and nobody knows how .
Sorry to laugh but it's kind of funny. We finally get a responsible old guy who did the right thing but nobody knows who, what, or how.
And true to type, members are all wrapped up in the "EMOTION".
Last edited by runswithscissors; 06-09-2017 at 09:57 AM..
Yes. While I disagree with bbtondo's tone, when someone asks you for financial assistance, it becomes perfectly acceptable and rational to stick your beak into their financial business and see what's going on.
They may balk at that but now that they've asked for financial assistance, it is completely reasonable for you to ask for a POA and to have an accurate picture of their finances.
You can't enable unhealthy behavior or underwrite the life of a Nigerian Prince that's really going to send your mother his lottery winnings.
That's not even the point.
Jeeze.
Did you even see where the mother has dementia?
Have you any real experience at all with that?
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