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Both of my inlaws had dementia/Alzheimers and neither of them ever became violent, but don't argue with Scissors, she knows everything from her lofty post as a social worker? Nursing home administrator? Geriatric physician? LPN? Custodian in a nursing home? Something secret that she must not reveal. Whatever it is, it sure isn't working for her. It's making her nothing but nasty and rude. Bless her heart, I hope she finds something she enjoys more very soon. Between now and then, she's not going to be a happy camper.
I'll put it to y'all this way - in all my years on C-D, I've only put two people on ignore - just put my second one on ignore today and I already feel better.
Both of my inlaws had dementia/Alzheimers and neither of them ever became violent, but don't argue with Scissors, she knows everything from her lofty post as a social worker? Nursing home administrator? Geriatric physician? LPN? Custodian in a nursing home? Something secret that she must not reveal. Whatever it is, it sure isn't working for her. It's making her nothing but nasty and rude. Bless her heart, I hope she finds something she enjoys more very soon. Between now and then, she's not going to be a happy camper.
HAHA I've been posting on the Caregiving Forum about dementia since 2013.
That's two years before you even joined CD.
BTW, reading is fundamental. (and so is hands-on daily Caregiving). It was KA who made the statement about "violence" not me. I never pontificate about violence I talk about escalating anxiety which...if you MEDICATE them properly you have a very high probability to preempt the violence.
You may want to peruse the links I provided which contradict KA's opinion that mid stage dementia passes quickly.
Last edited by runswithscissors; 06-22-2017 at 04:39 AM..
Here's what I was responding to (though I don't know why I waste my time responding to your posts):
Yelling is verbally violent. Yelling will probably not be tolerated well in most assisted living situations, and it's often a precursor to more physically violent behaviors.
For instance, though my mom doesn't hit people, she has recently started spitting out her meds onto the floor and cussing at the meds administrator. Is this violent? Well, not really, but verbal outbursts can indicate that a physical outburst is very possible. It's an uptick of anger that needs to be closely monitored. It concerns my mom's facility staff a lot and I don't blame them.
You said:
Quote:
The good news is that the middle stages of dementia seem to be the worst in terms of angry outbursts - and really, who can blame a person? But this stage often does pass pretty quickly.
I provided you professional links disagreeing with you.
NO, it doesn't need to be "closely monitored" while you make it their monkey. Everyone knows this behavior escalates with dementia. It needs to be medicated properly. And her living situation straightened out.
That's not going to happen in Independent Living where you swore she'd be fine. Not unless you contract for HHA or CNA private to monitor her full time. And it won't last for long in ALF either. Don't blame the place for their assessment when they didn't have a clue about her.
NO, Independent Living is not just "one step down" from Assisted like you claimed. It's nothing like Assisted in any way except you can CALL for HELP when and if you need it. And now you're finding that out.
You're not the first person in the world to face this challenge and you won't be the last. Sorry you take offense at experienced advise.
And NO, "YELLING" is not going to get you an involuntary commitment but VIOLENCE will. THAT is what makes the difference in which words you chose - legally. And that's what we're discussing here. Options for the OP. Before they get kicked out for being disruptive and non compliant.
IT's hard to comprehend how you have all these years experience with dementia when every single classic dementia thing they do shocks and horrifies you. And you constantly fight their behaviors which escalates the mess. Let alone having a mother with life long mental illness that for some odd reason you insist on constantly fighting with. It's not helpful when you're misinforming other members and hijacking with arguments all the time.
Last edited by runswithscissors; 06-22-2017 at 04:43 AM..
While there may not be medications that would help with the dementia, a geriatric psychiatrist can often prescribe medications that can help with specific symptoms, such as anxiety, depression, difficulty sleeping, anger and/or paranoia. Most general practitioners rarely, if ever, will prescribe any medications to deal with those, or similar symptoms, in a patient with dementia.
Obviously, you do not want your parents to be "drugged up", but I have seen even very small doses of the right medication help specific people immensely. In my caregiver support groups others have noted the same thing (such as a mild medication to help with anxiety or nervousness makes an immediate and tremendous difference in the quality of life of their loved one).
Just something to think about.
BTW While the facility may have provisions for more advanced dementia, it is, IMHO, rare for people with more advanced dementia to be able to stay in their same apartment in AL.
When Hubby moved, within the same facility, from "special" assisted living to their locked Memory Care floor, it was like moving to a completely different planet. Different staff, different rules, different expectations, different atmosphere, significantly smaller room, very limited activities, tremendously different people on the floor, and obviously no freedom. Heck, even the color scheme and decorating was completely different on that floor. So, even though it was the very same facility it was like it was a completely, completely new place.
I provided you professional links disagreeing with you.
NO, it doesn't need to be "closely monitored" while you make it their monkey. Everyone knows this behavior escalates with dementia. It needs to be medicated properly. And her living situation straightened out.
That's not going to happen in Independent Living where you swore she'd be fine. Not unless you contract for HHA or CNA private to monitor her full time. And it won't last for long in ALF either. Don't blame the place for their assessment when they didn't have a clue about her.
NO, Independent Living is not just "one step down" from Assisted like you claimed. It's nothing like Assisted in any way except you can CALL for HELP when and if you need it. And now you're finding that out.
You're not the first person in the world to face this challenge and you won't be the last. Sorry you take offense at experienced advise.
And NO, "YELLING" is not going to get you an involuntary commitment but VIOLENCE will. THAT is what makes the difference in which words you chose - legally. And that's what we're discussing here. Options for the OP. Before they get kicked out for being disruptive and non compliant.
IT's hard to comprehend how you have all these years experience with dementia when every single classic dementia thing they do shocks and horrifies you. And you constantly fight their behaviors which escalates the mess. Let alone having a mother with life long mental illness that for some odd reason you insist on constantly fighting with. It's not helpful when you're misinforming other members and hijacking with arguments all the time.
OMG. She said when she in on her bipolar meds she is fine there. I don't agree with KA about a lot of things, but on this she is dead on based on all of the great detail she has provided.
IDK where you are coming from. You talk about 'clients' but never say if you are a nurse or a caregiver or what your qualifications are.
we specifically looked for an ALF that can handle progressive dementia so we do not need to move them again. my dad also has been diagnosed with dementia. actually at one point he was the one worse off but now it's the other way.
according to their primary doctor, there is no medication to take for their dementia... or there is this one pill but apparently it can make things worse...
Unfortunately you didn't know that ALFs are not typically equipped to handle dementia for very long unless the people are stable and cooperative.
Did you tell them about your parent's problematic history? They should have warned you about it. If they really do have any expertise in dementia they would have, IMO.
Or did they mean they could move them to a different section called Memory Care Unit if they got worse? You're paying the same fees if not fully - almost. @$8000 per month for two.
Like I said to you upthread, OCCASIONALLY a general practice doctor will prescribe meds that TREAT SYMPTOMS. Such as anxiety. They aren't "dementia meds" they are standard meds anyone can take.
But they shouldn't if it can be avoided. Even though it's understandable they think they're helping. The person should be under the care of a psychiatrist (and neurologist) who makes a career with these issues.
And TBH that may not even last very long because the resident may refuse to go to the doctor and they have to see them in person to renew their prescriptions.
I've seen GP docs consult with the shrink if the patient won't go to the shrink but WILL see their GP doctor but that's not all that common unless the person has been in the care of both for quite some time. I've also seen experienced RNs consult with a GP doc when desperate to try and give input as to what medication she thinks would work on particular people. But usually when they have an established relationship.
It's a vicious cycle of trial, error, hope, failure and stress in these difficult cases.
It's illegal for a place to use chemical restraints (medications) unless they are prescribed by a doctor and sometimes only medications can keep them where they need to be.
Also ALF is 100% unlocked and voluntary. So they can walk out any time they want. In Memory Care they can kind of trick them by buying time with the locked door. Redirect and distract onto some other thing or until they can get them to take a medication.
Review your paperwork for an Involuntary Discharge clause. (being kicked out).
Ask how many discharges the facility has had in the past, or how many it averages per year.
You may be headed towards Guardianship/conservator if no long term place will take them/him.
ETA: I see the social worker did tell you this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cis_love
well, another added complication is that my mom has this paranoia that staff are coming into the room and stealing things. she keeps complaining about this to the social worker. the social worker also was telling us this and she said they also observed my mom losing her temper at my dad for the first time so the SW wanted us to make an appointment for my mom to see her doctor.
moving into the ALF has helped their health a lot b/c they are eating regularly and most of all taking their meds regularly. but it's not the smooth sailing i was hoping for
Last edited by runswithscissors; 06-22-2017 at 07:14 AM..
You know what, Runswithscissors, you're right. You're absolutely right. In all cases too. There is absolutely no deviation from the timeline of dementia that you've presented through your links. You are the expert in all things dementia related. Thank G-d my Mom was a "deviation" from your timeline norm, in that her period of paranoia passed in 2 months once she moved into assisted living and felt secure in that environment. But I'm sure she represents a true anomaly, and no one else would fit that scenario.
Or did they mean they could move them to a different section called Memory Care Unit if they got worse? You're paying the same fees if not fully - almost. @$8000 per month for two.
.
Just an addition, obviously fees vary from facility to facility.
At Hubby's previous facility they mentioned that they had never had a husband & wife in Memory Care at the same time but if they did they would both be charged the full amount, $6,000 per person per month. There are some Memory Care facilities in my area that charge $8,000 a month or more per person.
In my real life caregiver groups there have been a few participants where their spouse was in Memory Care and they were in independent living or assisted living at the same facility and each person paid the full amount of their area.
OP, I do not want to worry you, but often it is better to be prepared than to be blind sided later on. Will your Mom or your Dad, or both, need Memory Care down the road? Obviously, no one on CD knows that. But, it certainly would not hurt to ask questions and gather information in advance.
And, IMHO, being proactive can really help in the long run.
Good luck to you.
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