Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Caregiving
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-04-2017, 08:05 PM
 
4,407 posts, read 3,416,402 times
Reputation: 14168

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetana3 View Post
There is no "of course" about it. They are capable of buying another house, then they are capable of hiring movers. Their kids just made it easier for them to do it.
You got it!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-04-2017, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,666 posts, read 60,168,407 times
Reputation: 100989
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasel View Post
You know what? We had dinner with friends last night and his parents did the same thing. They decided they "didn't like" the house they had moved into a year ago and bought another one a mile away. Same area, same amenities, same size, etc. Our friend said his father basically admitted he was bored. Of course our friends had to help with both moves.
I swear this is what my parents were doing - it was a form of entertainment. They lost money on all three of the last homes they bought.

Once I wised up and quit helping them move, they quit moving. Because you see - they were not really "independent." They just wished that they still were.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2017, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
15,479 posts, read 15,501,051 times
Reputation: 28452
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
I have never understood why people are so opposed to living in an ALF or nursing home. What's the big deal? You would rather be in your home, semi lucid with memory issues, tumble down the stairs and slowly die on the floor? Just so you can say you did it your way?

If you're old and and going to die, why not do it in a controlled environment? What's the big deal about being in your old house? That's just a building like any other building.
I wouldn't wish starvation or death from dehydration on anyone! Both are LONG and VERY painful.....like torture.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2017, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
15,479 posts, read 15,501,051 times
Reputation: 28452
When my mother-in-law went into a nursing home, she actually began to thrive. People thought it would be horrible for her, but it was the exact opposite. She had the medical care she truly needed. She was ALWAYS around people. She was home alone every day. She couldn't manage stairs. She became wheelchair bound. She ended up breaking both of her legs in a city bus accident. No one knew for over a week. She was the life of the party in the nursing home. She loved the workers more than her own children! The woman I was in that facility was not the woman I had known for years. Those ladies she loved also attended her funeral.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2017, 04:20 AM
 
3,458 posts, read 1,439,505 times
Reputation: 1755
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Wow, you sure are slap happy with advice without knowing various situations. Since you were addressing my situation with my mom, I'll answer.

Dementia is a game changer.

My mom also has stroke damage and is a huge fall risk - in fact, she fell and broke her hip a little over a year ago. She refused to wear a fall alert device. She can't drive. She can't see well. She developed anorexia. She allowed a stranger (she still doesn't know who it was) to come into the house right after my dad died (before the funeral!) and to go through his things and take whatever they wanted. Using your logic, I should just allow whatever to happen and to hell with it - that's what she "wants." You really think she would want to lay on the floor for a day or two with a broken hip? Have thousands of dollars stolen from her? Set the house on fire because she left something on the stove? Die of starvation? Wander around the neighborhood lost?

She and my dad made it very clear for many years that they wanted me to help them if they needed help - with groceries, doctor visits and medical care, managing finances, etc. and I agreed to step in when either or both of them became unable to care for themselves.

Since they both had serious health issues, they got all the legal paperwork together and I met, with them, with their attorney several times. TOGETHER we made a contingency plan for their elder care. This plan was decided on when they were both able to understand and process and discuss the various options.

Also, not that you asked - but my mom is the one who told me that she wanted to move into a senior living facility after my dad died. It was a huge endeavor to find a place, move her into it (three rooms and all her personal items, much of her furniture, etc), sort through everything else in her house, put it on the market, pay someone to clean it after all the furniture was moved out, process the buyer's contract to closing, etc. She told me about three days before closing that she thought she wanted to move back into her house.

No.
Just being honest here, please regard what I say as a personal opinion.

I personally would rather not go to assisted living.
Why should I have lied? I'd rather die of starvation. It's not like you can't end up dying of starvation in the nursing home and yes it's horrible. DYING is horrible, losing your husband is horrible, getting old isn't always pleasant . Both my grandparents did just that. It's not like abuse doesn't happen in a ALF or Nursing home. There is danger everywhere and you can die of starvation or fall in either place. My grandfather fell often in the nursing home and one time waited all night on the floor til they did a room check. Putting them in assisted living just gives you a break. That is why I suggested other ways to help them at home. I wouldn't use exhaustion as an excuse to limit their choices. That's not a reason for me. I just wouldn't take on more than I can handle, there is no reason to do that. Seniors do not have to go to nursing homes to get assistance. That's simply not true.

Slap happy? Seriously? What situations don't you think I'm aware of? You've made it perfectly clear with your stories how it went down. I just don't agree with your reasoning. I don't think you have to move your parent or parents into ALF for help. There are many other ways and I've listed them and left a link. If life has stripped you of your health and your spouse then maybe you should at least allow a few choices. It's not like getting old is a crime. We all get there someday.

There's options for those who are interested in them. https://www.care.com/c/stories/5437/...ing-home-care/
Set yourself up with services before you actually need them. Learn to call a Lyft, learn to order groceries, make friends with your neighbors. Join church groups. Do these things in preparation for staying home as you age and keeping your independence.

Another thing people might not know is that ALF's don't help when the parent needs one on one care. You'll still have to pay for one on one services on top of the rent for the ALF. Make sure you check what it is they cover. Often times an ALF will accept a patient that really needs one on one care only to let you know later. That will be a separate cost.

As I've stated up thread these would be my wishes. Some older people like community homes, especially if they don't suffer from dementia and don't need familiar settings. They can eventually really like it. One size does not fit all. This is only my advice, my wishes as I get older and it doesn't apply to everyone. I've stated that multiple times.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2017, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Southern New England
1,541 posts, read 1,135,583 times
Reputation: 6794
Everyone here is doing the best that they can do with the circumstances they have. We come here for ideas and support. We get a lot of both. We take away the ideas and incorporate them into our circumstances. Or we don't. But the broadened perspective we get from being here will in general always make us better at what we do and stronger while doing it.


jmo :-)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2017, 07:40 AM
 
4,407 posts, read 3,416,402 times
Reputation: 14168
^^^
Agree with LilyMae.

Also, keep in mind that most of the time we are getting a very small summary of the story. It is likely that lots of things were tried and attempts failed before the person is finally "put into" a facility. That decision is usually the result of a LONG process of trying to make a go of keeping someone in their home.

Suggesting things like "elderly people can learn to use Lyft or Uber" seems like a GREAT idea. Well, it doesn't work with an elderly person who can't use a smartphone because they can't hear worth a damn and they can't text because it confuses them. That's my MIL. She can't hear, so if the person has to call to ask "exactly what entrance are you at?" she cannot hear. Heck, she doesn't even feel her phone vibrate. We've tried training her on texting to no avail. So she has to use other types of ride services where she can make a phone call from her closed-captioned phone and the same driver is picking her up and the same exact spot where she was dropped off.

There are millions of seniors living independently at home who are doing fine. You don't hear about them here because most of the people on this forum are dealing with problematic circumstances where the parent really CAN'T function at home either because of physical or mental constraints.

Tokinouta, I wish I had the wide-eyed youthful optimism that you seem to have, where everything has a simple fix. I used to have that same optimism. Life changed that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2017, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,666 posts, read 60,168,407 times
Reputation: 100989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokinouta View Post
Quote:
Putting them in assisted living just gives you a break. That is why I suggested other ways to help them at home. I wouldn't use exhaustion as an excuse to limit their choices. That's not a reason for me. I just wouldn't take on more than I can handle, there is no reason to do that. Seniors do not have to go to nursing homes to get assistance. That's simply not true.
Wow. Where to start...

First of all (and while I'm speaking of my own personal experience, I am sure I'm not alone in this) I didn't just "put my mom in assisted living to get a break." For starters, it was a joint decision between my brothers, myself, and my mom (as with the OP's parents) and SHE is who approached ME with the statement that she needed to move to a senior living facility.

Secondly, my mother needed and continues to need 24/7 supervision and daily medical supervision. So did my MIL, who unlike my mom, insisted on trying to stay in her own home. Let me explain something to you - when someone needs 24/7 supervision, no one person can do it. You keep talking about getting people to come in to take care of that person - well, my MIL lived out in the middle of nowhere and insisted on staying in her own home. So that meant that we either moved in with them (no), or hired someone to come in to be with her 24/7. Wait - did I say some ONE? No, what I meant was some FOUR. That's right - four aides. That's because there are 24 hours in each day - three 8 hour shifts. Plus people want a couple of days off per week. And someone is always calling in sick or with a family emergency, so you need 4 qualified aides on "staff." So do you know what that was costing for my MIL? Around $10,000 a month. NONE of that was covered by Medicare or Medicaid or insurance, by the way. Every bit of that was out of pocket.

And you know what happened with my MIL? She became more and more isolated. Her depression and anxiety increased dramatically. She refused to do any exercise or physical therapy. Within a few weeks, she was unable to even get up out of her recliner without help - and that was very difficult for one person, so we really needed two people there as often as possible to help her with bathing, toilet issues, etc. And eventually changing her diapers. She refused to eat or drink. It was awful.

She needed to be in a facility - not for her family's sake but for HER sake.

Quote:
Slap happy? Seriously? What situations don't you think I'm aware of? You've made it perfectly clear with your stories how it went down. I just don't agree with your reasoning. I don't think you have to move your parent or parents into ALF for help. There are many other ways and I've listed them and left a link. If life has stripped you of your health and your spouse then maybe you should at least allow a few choices. It's not like getting old is a crime. We all get there someday.
In my mom's case, when her dementia was still very mild and she was reasonable for the most part, SHE approached ME about moving to a facility rather than living alone.

She had choices. But age and health issues limit everyone's choices, including hers (and yours and mine too one day).

She isn't being punished. She's actually living in a pretty luxurious and very safe situation.

I'm not sure you understand just how isolated living alone at home can feel for many people - including but not limited to my mom.

Quote:
Set yourself up with services before you actually need them. Learn to call a Lyft, learn to order groceries, make friends with your neighbors. Join church groups. Do these things in preparation for staying home as you age and keeping your independence.
Most of these options become obsolete when dementia sets in. Dementia - which so many elderly and their loved ones struggle with - robs a person of so many things, one of which is their independence. So when you're making plans, be sure to make plans in case you develop dementia and cannot be independent.

Quote:
As I've stated up thread these would be my wishes. Some older people like community homes, especially if they don't suffer from dementia and don't need familiar settings.
Often one of the worst things health wise for a person with dementia is to live in the isolation of their home. Sad but true.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2017, 09:27 AM
 
4,407 posts, read 3,416,402 times
Reputation: 14168
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Secondly, my mother needed and continues to need 24/7 supervision and daily medical supervision. So did my MIL, who unlike my mom, insisted on trying to stay in her own home. Let me explain something to you - when someone needs 24/7 supervision, no one person can do it. You keep talking about getting people to come in to take care of that person - well, my MIL lived out in the middle of nowhere and insisted on staying in her own home. So that meant that we either moved in with them (no), or hired someone to come in to be with her 24/7. Wait - did I say some ONE? No, what I meant was some FOUR. That's right - four aides. That's because there are 24 hours in each day - three 8 hour shifts. Plus people want a couple of days off per week. And someone is always calling in sick or with a family emergency, so you need 4 qualified aides on "staff." So do you know what that was costing for my MIL? Around $10,000 a month. NONE of that was covered by Medicare or Medicaid or insurance, by the way. Every bit of that was out of pocket.

And you know what happened with my MIL? She became more and more isolated. Her depression and anxiety increased dramatically. She refused to do any exercise or physical therapy. Within a few weeks, she was unable to even get up out of her recliner without help - and that was very difficult for one person, so we really needed two people there as often as possible to help her with bathing, toilet issues, etc. And eventually changing her diapers. She refused to eat or drink. It was awful.

.
I agree with KA's entire post but I am bolding this part because the other issue is that many seniors being either worried about or actually finding out that a hired aide stole from them. That's one major reason I've heard given for not wanting paid in-home help...with a house full of valuables, the elderly person becomes very anxious that something will be stolen. Imagine feeling anxious for an entire day that someone is looking at your stuff or taking it. I happen to have a lot of trust in the people I hire but when you are older and feel more vulnerable it's a huge concern. And like I said there are instances where their concerns are warranted because stealing and abuse does happen.

It's really complicated.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2017, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,666 posts, read 60,168,407 times
Reputation: 100989
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasel View Post
I agree with KA's entire post but I am bolding this part because the other issue is that many seniors being either worried about or actually finding out that a hired aide stole from them. That's one major reason I've heard given for not wanting paid in-home help...with a house full of valuables, the elderly person becomes very anxious that something will be stolen. Imagine feeling anxious for an entire day that someone is looking at your stuff or taking it. I happen to have a lot of trust in the people I hire but when you are older and feel more vulnerable it's a huge concern. And like I said there are instances where their concerns are warranted because stealing and abuse does happen.

It's really complicated.
Yep. And I'll flesh that out a bit.

When my parents were both sick, they were living in their 2500 square foot home and needed housekeeping. Now - let me stress something - my parents were wealthy (my mom is still wealthy of course - dad's dead). So they had the means to hire housekeeping and that's what they did. Well, nothing was ever stolen by that housekeeping staff, but that didn't stop my mother from accusing them of stealing all the time. She'd hide stuff and then forget where she hid it (from them) and then she'd accuse them of stealing it. It was a mess.

Another side of that coin was when my MIL and FIL had all those rotating aides coming in, in their misguided and frankly disastrous attempt to stay in their own home till they died there. Not only was there a constant stream of outside help - nefarious family members began poking around. Soon a niece (with a criminal record) was running around town with their debit card. Then she started bringing all her laundry over to do it at their house. Things started going missing. INFORMATION started going missing. Like retirement account information. Soon my FIL's brother was trying to CHANGE BENEFICIARIES on retirement accounts, and that was just the start of several family member's attempts to steal small AND very large amounts of money from my inlaws. It was terrible.

When my dad died, and my mom was alone for one afternoon (I couldn't stay with her 24/7 and I guess someone was watching for my brother to leave the house to go get lunch), someone - to this day my mom has no idea who it was - came to the door and asked my mom if they could come in because they "needed some clothes that were in my dad's size." My mom LET THEM IN and someone came through and went through my dad's closet and God only knows what else - and took things. TOOK MY DAD'S THINGS.

My mom also just spontaneously gave a string of Mikimoto pearls that were a gift to her from my dad - that I was always told I would inherit and that I was going to pass down to one of my daughters - to a little 11 year old neighborhood girl. Now - I'm sure that that little girl doesn't know what a Mikimoto pearl is and probably assumed the pearls were costume jewelry. But my mom refused to ask her to give them back, even though we offered to replace them with something nice - but not Mikimoto pearls. My mom didn't want to offend the little girl. And to be honest, she also just shrugged and said, "They were mine - I can do whatever I want to with them." But it was clear that she didn't grasp the implication of what she'd done, anymore than she grasped the danger of allowing a stranger to come into your house and start digging around in the office and in my dad's closet and drawers!!!!!!OMG

Another time, shortly after my dad's funeral, I had gone home and settled in, changed into my jammies and finally relaxed with the Vikings and my brother texted me and said, "Mom isn't answering her phone." He lives many hours away. Now. What am I supposed to do with that information - with a mother who had fallen just a few months earlier and broken her hip? So of course I tried calling her and of course she didn't answer and it was now 10 pm. So of course I did what someone had to do - I got dressed, got in my car, and drove over to her house, let myself in (the alarm wasn't set - because she can't remember how to set it), called her name, called over and over again as I walked toward her bedroom, got in there and there she was, sound asleep - with the phone hung up upside down so it was technically off the hook.

Sorry - I'm not living life like that or expecting her to either. I mean, she was fine but she could just as easily been laying on the floor with a broken hip all night long too. It's not like she hadn't laid on the floor with a broken hip for hours once already - WITH my dad alive and asleep in the next room unable to hear her calling for him.

My MIL had Alzheimer's. When my FIL was in the hospital and my MIL's Alzheimer's was still in it's early stages, we brought her to our house for two weeks so she wouldn't have to be alone. She had a whole wing to herself - we had a split bedroom setup. Come to find out one morning that she had spent the night sitting naked in the bathtub at the other end of the house - because she couldn't get out and we couldn't hear her from our bedroom.

Both my mother and my MIL have histories of turning on burners at all hours of the day or night and leaving them on. My MIL was also determined to try to drive. The last time she drove, she drove down the wrong side of a highway. She also took five hours to drive home (it was a 30 minute drive) because she got lost. My FIL also was determined to drive. Finally their insurance company refused to carry comprehensive insurance on them and threatened to drop them altogether, so my FIL just quit reporting his many fender benders. His beautiful Buick Lucerne looked like a caricature of a car within a year, inside and out. God only knows what all he hit in what parking lots.

So no - sometimes staying home simply isn't an option.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Caregiving
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top