Have you ever advised the DMV about an unsafe driver? (dementia, Florida)

[BrassTacksGal]

Originally Posted by Freebird

Yes, we feel like we would be leaving them stranded for some things.

For some optional things like getting food out, or having the ability to swing by Denny's on the way home from doctor appointments. These are nice to have things, but not need to have things. And it's obviously not worth the risk to them or innocent bystanders/other vehicles to keep them able to do this.

Their independent living facility has shuttles for almost everything else they could want or need. That would just be a matter of lifestyle modification.

And there are three meals a day at the clubhouse, included in the rent - so they definitely have access to decent meals.



But they are not going to use the alternative options just because we present them - it's not like we can say they have to start doing this today, and it will just happen.


No more waffling about whether to report or not - it's done. Here's hoping all is well while the DMV is doing the investigation and sorting out what to do. And we will help however we can once the decision is made.

Once again, if we thought there was immediate clear and present danger every time the car left the garage, this thread never would've started - we would've acted already.

Will DMV cancel someone's license because someone asks them to? If I'm mad at my neighbor, can I report him to DMV and have his license removed? Is there a certain age where you can do this? People over 65 or 70? Just wondering how this works.

[BrassTacksGal]

Originally Posted by wasel

The irony is that Millennials seem to NOT want to drive -- they don't equate it with independence, and there are plenty of CD-ers who emphatically say we should give up our cars!



I guess if you're used to something and have had it taken away against your will, it's different. But if a person thinks they are still well/cognitively aware enough to get around in public by themselves, having to rely on an Uber or taxi isn't the worst thing in the world.

My two millennial sons live in big cities where there is no need to drive. Both walk to work and hire Uber if they need to. But I live out in the country where there are no cabs and no Uber. Many Americans live in areas like mine. Perhaps self-driving cars will get here soon enough that we won't have to worry about it. I love my house and the little town a few miles away, so I'd hate to have to give up living here but I suppose we will have to do that at some point.

[Roselvr]

Originally Posted by Freebird

Yes, we feel like we would be leaving them stranded for some things.

For some optional things like getting food out, or having the ability to swing by Denny's on the way home from doctor appointments. These are nice to have things, but not need to have things. And it's obviously not worth the risk to them or innocent bystanders/other vehicles to keep them able to do this.

Their independent living facility has shuttles for almost everything else they could want or need. That would just be a matter of lifestyle modification.

And there are three meals a day at the clubhouse, included in the rent - so they definitely have access to decent meals.



But they are not going to use the alternative options just because we present them - it's not like we can say they have to start doing this today, and it will just happen.


No more waffling about whether to report or not - it's done. Here's hoping all is well while the DMV is doing the investigation and sorting out what to do. And we will help however we can once the decision is made.

Once again, if we thought there was immediate clear and present danger every time the car left the garage, this thread never would've started - we would've acted already.

Post back to let us know when you hear from your brother whats going on. Hopefully if dad gets a notification from DMV in the mail; he'll call your brother to complain

You did the right thing. Let DMV be the one to decide since it's not all the time. Think about it though, 87 is pretty old to still be driving.

I keep forgetting to say I'm against the camera for backing up. I have one in my SUV and rarely use it. I've had the car 2 years and am still not used to having it when I've been driving as long as I have without one. I'm 54.

[Nik4me]

Originally Posted by ChessieMom

No, I have no such duty at this time. There are many drivers I have been in a car with, where I was uncomfortable, but it’s not my place to remove their driving privilege. Obviously there will come a time where y father has to stop. And when that time comes...it will be my brother who “ has the duty”.

I did not mean a legal duty( actually, not sure about that you could be culpable?). I meant your moral duty.
If one just googles “ elderly driver kills”- see for yourself.
I guess you don’t mind if someone else’s elderly father plows into you or your loved ones with deadly results?

[Nik4me]

To Freebird:
Maybe between the family you could find some budget for arranging a driver once or twice a week for A few hours or so? Could be some newly retired person for an extra cash?

Your parents could adjust to going shopping and errands on certain days in a week. If they fail to buy something your brother may pick up a slack on a weekend?

[wasel]

OP -- I think you're doing what you have to do. Your brother has observed multiple instances of dangerous driving so he has confirmed what you have also seen yourself.


For outings, they could use GoGoGrandparent. It's service geared to the elderly, and it doesn't require a smartphone. They use transportation networks like Lyft and Uber as well as other local ones. You mentioned they live in FL and I know they have the service throughout most of the state. They offer gift certificate options so you and brother could contribute a certain amount per month for their "fun runs."

Good luck with this, I know it's tough. However, talking to him is not going to change anything, I'm afraid.

[silibran]

To the OP: I feel your pain! I did not intervene with my mom because of the effect it would have on my sister. She, who was working, would have been responsible for transporting my mom. And I did not sense a willingness to do this. Luckily, my mother only damaged her car, not anyone else!

But I’ve always felt guilty about this. I think you are doing the right thing. I understand your need to think things through. And as an old person, myself, I dread not being able to drive, if I live that long. This will be a major adjustment for your parents, and for your brother. I want to wish you well as you all navigate this new situation.

And another thought: I know you feel that your dad’s lack of sleep is the reason for much of his difficulties driving. But, I think you should give thought to the possibility that he is losing cognition. He is not confused, but he may have impaired judgement. He might be unable to assess his actual condition.

Of course, I could be wrong.

I want to commend you for caring about the welfare of your parents.

[Freebird]

Originally Posted by katharsis

I would rather have someone lose his or her driving privilege than have that person possibly kill one or more other drivers, passengers or pedestrians.

This is where we are, my brother and I.

We talked again today about this for an hour, not trying to decide what to do - but sorting out how to handle the transportation and the adjustment period.

I am not sure whether my brother (after all of HIS concern and phone calls and texts to me about this) is actually going to mail in the form. I wonder if he might think well she's got this, we don't both have to do it just so it gets done. .. .

Whether he does or not, I am prepared to stand on my own on this. I would prefer to be able to say that the four of us have weighed all of the options and are united in our choice of doing this (assuming our dad finds out, and he might not unless he asks outright) - but if my brother never turns it in, so be it - although I told him it might carry more weight if both children sent it in within a short timeframe.


I hope everyone can tell my intentions on this. I've made it crystal clear over this past three days that it's a bad position to be in, trying to make the decision and considering the impact on my parents' independence but more importantly the fact that turning him in would protect them as well as anyone that might encounter this sleep-deprived little senior on his journeys.

As much as I couldn't shake the thought of wanting to wait to talk to him when I'm there and not waylay him, I also couldn't shake the thought of the innocent people who could be affected before that and that was again, the major concern.

I hope it's crystal clear that I've been trying to do the right thing. Anyone who has followed my threads about caregiving for my parents knows that I am desperately trying to do all the right things.

And now I've made it crystal clear throughout this afternoon that I have done the right thing. There’s no choice anymore - it’s done. The majority of posters on here agreed that my brother and I should turn him in to the DMV. Not try to talk to him, not try to reason with him - to fill out the paperwork and turn him in.

There were a couple of posters who advised against being a whistleblower but most said to turn him in/report him yesterday already.

I live 2500 miles away, telling him "he's not allowed to drive until he's evaluated" (as a poster upthread suggested) is literally unenforceable.

Originally Posted by BrassTacksGal

Will DMV cancel someone's license because someone asks them to? . . . Just wondering how this works.

From everything I can tell, the report triggers an examination which might include a written driving test, road driving test, eye exam and / or medical exam (with these reports to be sent back within a certain timeframe or the license is revoked immediately). It's not a matter of the report triggering an immediate suspension or revocation.

And in some cases, there is a suspension until the medical clearance is obtained but IF the medical clearance is obtained, the license is reinstated.

Hence my concern of what if he is cleared to drive by the DMV examiners and from a medical standpoint - do we trust that all is well? I will update for sure if we get into such a situation. Please rest assured, we won't take any chances in unleashing him back onto the roadways at that point if he's still staying up until 5-6am.

Originally Posted by Roselvr

Post back to let us know when you hear from your brother whats going on. Hopefully if dad gets a notification from DMV in the mail; he'll call your brother to complain.

You did the right thing. Let DMV be the one to decide since it's not all the time. Think about it though, 87 is pretty old to still be driving.

I keep forgetting to say I'm against the camera for backing up. I have one in my SUV and rarely use it. I've had the car 2 years and am still not used to having it when I've been driving as long as I have without one. I'm 54.

I think both of us would hear from him - my brother said today that he would say "yeah dad I turned you in because you're not sleeping and you're not safe". We will see.

Thanks for the support ("you did the right thing"). It never hurts to hear it. It's great to hear it from others. Let the DMV be the one to decide since it's not all the time - that sounds good.

I cannot stress to this thread enough that if it WAS all the time, we seriously would have acted already.

Yeah the backup cam would only solve one issue - and there are way more than that for sure. And when I've used it in my rental cars, I still look backward and around in both directions before and during backing up - I would hate for him to become dependent on a camera and not look around because of it.

Originally Posted by Nik4me

I did not mean a legal duty( actually, not sure about that you could be culpable?). I meant your moral duty.
If one just googles “ elderly driver kills”- see for yourself.
I guess you don’t mind if someone else’s elderly father plows into you or your loved ones with deadly results?

^ ^ ^ this ^ ^ ^ is what we fear - not only if something happened to one or both parents (if he chose to take the risk and keep driving against our advice and concerns) - - but what if it was innocent pedestrians or drivers/passengers in other cars.

I cannot imagine how I would feel if my dad caused an accident and he and mom were ok but the other people were hurt or killed.

I am not sure if families can be held culpable legally if they knew there might be an issue (or if they knew there was an issue and remained quiet about it). . . I wonder. I just know I couldn't live with myself if something happened to others.

Again it sounds terribly cold to say that if my dad refused to stop driving and both of my parents were killed but no other innocent people were involved, I'd handle it better. But it's true. Because I know I've talked to him so many times, my brother has talked to him so many times - it would be in our minds at that point, we did our best and you made your choice and we'll miss you.

Worse, if he was ok and mom was paralyzed or killed - I would not be able to forgive him. As much as my mom and I have had our differences, she is so vulnerable and in no control whatsoever of what her husband does in the car when he's driving. SHE is the one who watches out for him, amazingly enough - I've heard her say "that car's coming over, watch him" - would he have seen it?

Now we won't have to guess. Godspeed Florida DMV - I'm so grateful that there is a process for this.

Originally Posted by Nik4me

To Freebird:
Maybe between the family you could find some budget for arranging a driver once or twice a week for A few hours or so? Could be some newly retired person for an extra cash?

Your parents could adjust to going shopping and errands on certain days in a week. If they fail to buy something your brother may pick up a slack on a weekend?

I like this. Not a paid caregiver/companion through the current agency, but someone from church or somewhere - someone that they'd enjoy being around anyway.

And my brother suggested that they could take them to their medical appointments and make an outing out of it - go for food after. Or if the shuttle from their community dropped them off at Mayo, my brother and his wife would hook up near the end of the appointment and go for food and then take them back to the villa.

It's ALL workable. It will HAVE to be. It's just a matter of planning.

I wish it was us who lived in the same city - I would drive them in a heartbeat, or take them food from Wendy's, whatever. I do think my brother will step up because he really enjoys being with them. Time will tell.

It feels really good to have acted and made the choice and know that there is going to be intervention that will be successful - as opposed to intervention (our talking) which really doesn't have a shot at effecting any change.

[Blondy]

Freebird

I would move on to whatever solutions you need for your parents when they are unable to drive.

Grocery delivery. Check out their local stores to see if its available. If not, Walmart has at a minimum grocery online ordering that can be picked up curbside.

Check out exactly what their facility shuttle service offers. For example, I doubt they will take your parents to the Dr and then take them to Denny's and wait for them to eat a meal. But, they may take them to the Dr and then take them by Denny's to pick up a take out order which of course Dad will have to remember to call in before they leave the Dr.

For that matter, you and bro should imo lay on the guilt about why they aren't eating meals in their facility that they are paying for. That would clearly reduce the need to eat out as well as provide them with some socialization. The upside also would be it might get them on a more regular day time schedule.

Finally, check out the restaurants in their town. Almost guaranteed they all offer takeout and many may offer delivery via a central delivery service like GrubHub or something else.

Maybe one of your tasks on your next visit should be to stock them up on basics like paper/personal care/emergency food products to minimize emergencies for your brother.

Good luck.

[Freebird]

Originally Posted by wasel

OP -- I think you're doing what you have to do. Your brother has observed multiple instances of dangerous driving so he has confirmed what you have also seen yourself.


For outings, they could use GoGoGrandparent. It's service geared to the elderly, and it doesn't require a smartphone. They use transportation networks like Lyft and Uber as well as other local ones. You mentioned they live in FL and I know they have the service throughout most of the state. They offer gift certificate options so you and brother could contribute a certain amount per month for their "fun runs."

Good luck with this, I know it's tough. However, talking to him is not going to change anything, I'm afraid.

Right? I told my brother again today that the fact that HE has repeatedly contacted me over the past week and we've talked for so long about it makes me KNOW it's not just something we can continue to watch and evaluate. And talking - he would listen to us, react either unfavorably or worse yet, agree that he needs to be more careful - but we'd never know if he actually WAS getting more sleep or being more careful.

Lack of accidents or incidents could just be luck at that point - it would not mean there had been any change.

I will google GoGoGrandparent now - that sounds wonderful. And my dad is a social animal - mom is more shy but she'd enjoy talking to new drivers as well I think.

Originally Posted by silibran

To the OP: I feel your pain! I did not intervene with my mom because of the effect it would have on my sister. She, who was working, would have been responsible for transporting my mom. And I did not sense a willingness to do this. Luckily, my mother only damaged her car, not anyone else!

But I’ve always felt guilty about this. I think you are doing the right thing. I understand your need to think things through. And as an old person, myself, I dread not being able to drive, if I live that long. This will be a major adjustment for your parents, and for your brother. I want to wish you well as you all navigate this new situation.

And another thought: I know you feel that your dad’s lack of sleep is the reason for much of his difficulties driving. But, I think you should give thought to the possibility that he is losing cognition. He is not confused, but he may have impaired judgement. He might be unable to assess his actual condition.

Of course, I could be wrong.

I want to commend you for caring about the welfare of your parents.

I think you are absolutely right. I definitely think his cognitive skills are declining. The fact that he cannot process that we are concerned that he needs to get more sleep - that he misses exits for places he has been to multiple times - that he knows (or should know) that he needs to be in the left lane to turn onto the access road that leads to the villa but he doesn't get into that lane until the last minute. .. all of this.

Yeah the lack of sleep contributes for sure - I mean it's not normal - it's FAR from normal - for an 87-year-old to still be out of bed (never having gone to bed) when the morning newspaper hits the front entrance at 6am. We would love it if that was "all" it was and he could get more sleep and then he'd be safe.

The cognitive issue is more the catalyst for turning in the report - because he doesn't KNOW that he's not safe. And he should really realize and take notice of these near-misses, know it's not right and take steps to improve. But he doesn't realize. And that's far more of an issue than just not enough sleep hours.



THANK YOU to all of you for following this - I really appreciate it - thank you to you who have given such support and kind words throughout this thread and especially this afternoon.