Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Eyewrist, I agree with many of the things you're saying. Just because you put a parent in a nursing home that doesn't mean you can just walk away and not look back. My husband's mother was in one for many years and we HAD to go twice a week---one time to iron out problems like lost teeth, shoes and clothing and to confer with the aids caring for her, and one time to attempt a quality visit. Her roommate had no one to look out for her and we could see different in how she was treated without a 'squeaky wheel' in her life to act as her advocate.
Another thing that I haven't seen mentioned in connection with putting a parent in a nursing home is money. Lots of families don't want to see their inheritance eaten up paying for a nursing home and will start home care thinking it will only be a year or two. So they get locked into a cycle that is hard to break out of as time passes. My brother and I made the decision to share care my dad at his home because we wanted to keep from having to sell a cottage on a lake (his home) that had been in the family for several generations. If we had putting him in a nursing home we either would have had to come up with the cash to private pay the nursing home bills or to sell the cottage because you can't have assets and expect the state or Medicare to cover the costs. They won't. We ended up sharing-caring Dad for five years and it was tough but, for us, it was well worth the effort. We both felt strongly about keeping Dad where he wanted to be and about keeping the cottage in the family. My spouse was very supportive of me spending so much time at my dad's but my brother's spouse wasn't so much. Lots of variables goes into caring for an elderly parent, no matter how you handle it.
As for how to get adult siblings to help, my suggestion is to do a lot of homework on all the options available to the family to care for a parent including costs, etc., for each choice and how each option impacts the siblings in terms of time and money. Then call a family meeting of the siblings (minus their spouses for the first go-around) and lay it all out. You need to know what each person is willing and able to do or not do. As a woman and the youngest sibling in the beginning I had to remind my brother that I was not an only child and whatever we we'd have to share what had to be done. When it was all over, my brother and I had grown closed and had learned to respect each other and to related as adults...not the same "pecking order" we had as children.
Yes - a lot of the people who say "stick me in a nursing home" seem to think its just free.
Well. It is, more or less - once you're destitute.
But, if you have assets (your home, your vacation home, stock, a savings account) - and you thought it would be nice to give those to your children to provide for their future (or your grandchildren's future)..
Well. You can't have both.
So - you can either spend down ($6000 per month per person on average where I live) and spend all your money for nursing home care and then become destitute and let the medicaid pay for the rest.
Or .. you can try to do your best to stay out of one, and only use the money at the end - if it is really necessary.
That's a major issue. If my parents health were compromised by being in my home - they'd be in an institution, and rapidly heading towards bankruptcy (and medicaid approval!!). I don't have them in my home *simply* to save money.
But yes - its a consideration. They worked their entire lives, to be middle class, to have a little bit of a nest egg. They want that nest egg passed on to us, if it can be.
Truthfully, it would be a kinda nice thing if we can get it. But, even if we can't - there's no question that their health is better in our home than it would be in a nursing home.
I know - because I took them out of nursing homes.
Now - if you're already destitute (no decent pension, no 401K, home isn't worth much, no other property) - well - obviously you have nothing to leave your heirs financially anyway, and they aren't expecting anything.
But if you're in the middle area -- well off enough that you put a little away and would have been able to leave your heirs a small but decent inheritance, but not well off enough to be RICH and therefore afford institutional care.
Its a bitter bitter blow.
and people on these boards seem to use Medicare (which doesn't pay for more than 100 days of institutional care) and Medicaid (which pays for contiuing institutional care for the very poor) interchangably.
Have you spent any "quality time " in one??? Ok, it is evident to me that you have NEVER experienced the nursing home scene yet by your statement. In the nursing home once they realize you have no one (as you stated for your daughter to "not look back") to check up on you, you will one of the most neglected and abused person in the building while the nursing home try to keep you alive as long as they can with putting in G-tubes and saline IV and keep you sedated 24/7 to keep you under control and from complaining. I go work in them for 6 months once every 5 years to remind me how little they function; that's all I can take. The last one I worked at was complaining about the cost of diapers so they decided to let the people lay in their waste through the night (which by the way Laundry Dept was closed at night) and allowed dirty linen to piled high by the morning and no sheets, towels were available for the day shift to change dirty beds. They fired nurses' aides which resulted in 20 patients per NA. So you can imagine no one got quality care just a general face and butt wipe with food trays dropped in front of them so they could eat. If they couldn't feed themselves they would rush to feed them as much as possible because they still had to get 15 others cleaned, dressed and fed.
Just go volunteer in one for awhile ...I dare you... you will see what I am taking about.
You have just cursed yourself to a latter stage of misery. You may want to see if your daughter can prevent you from getting there as long as possible before she does that and still visit frequently so to minimize your neglect.
I have spent plenty of time in nursing homes. My aunt and uncle were both in one not that long ago and I visited frequently. They vary in quality. I researched all the NH's in the area before they went and found the highest rated one in our community. Every time I saw them they appeared to be well cared for.
But here is my point: By the time I'm ready for nursing home level care, I'll be ready to die anyway. I do not want my life prolonged until I can't walk on my own, am using diapers and eating pureed mush for years. Death is preferable to that kind of existence. AND, I don't want my daughter to have to spend years of her life changing my diaper. The fact that I took care of her as an infant doesn't mean that she owes me years of doing the same thing. Hopefully she'll be taking care of her own family at that point, or enjoying life as a healthy and prosperous adult.
Like most people, I hope to live a long, happy life and then drop dead. If that doesn't happen, I don't intend to burden anyone with my care. My daughter is a sweet, loving girl and I imagine she'll be a sweet, loving adult. She may very well make an effort to care for me in some way if/when I need it. But I will not ask or expect her to compromise her own life so that I can vegetate in a hospital bed in her house and have her come home from work and spoon feed me and change my Depend.
I hope it all goes according to your plan. But - realistically, very few people live a "long healthy life" and then drop dead.
So - most people will require care for a time - be it a few months, or several years.
While you may not wish to continue to live if you lose control of your bodily functions, many others might.
When you write in that way it sounds as though you are suggesting that your way of doing things (i.e. I will not burden my children, I would rather die than have my daughter change my adult brief) is the CORRECT way of doing things.
and thus the rest of us, and our parents, have somehow made the wrong choice.
Now - clearly you are just expressing your own personal preference, and you are certainly entitled to it. But the way you say it - (and tempers get very sensitive on this board, as these are very emotional topics) seems to suggest judgment for others who choose differently.
As for me - I CHOSE to take my parents in. While they are bed-ridden, and yes - using adult briefs (because they can't get up to use the commode) - it happened very suddenly, and otherwise their health conditions are manageable. They are mentally very competent.
Indeed, when you deal with them, you are generally impressed by how ALIVE they are. They are not simply hollow creatures waiting to die.
They've been with me (bed-ridden, and needing adult briefs changed) for 4 years. (well - 3.5 right now).
They seem to like their life. They don't complain about their lack of mobility (I, in my 30s, would go insane if I couldn't get out of bed ... but maybe the world looks different when you're 85). They enjoy seeing the seasons out their windows, the birds - the flowers. They follow their sports teams (go Detroit Tigers!! go Detroit Lions!! go Red Wings!). They watch PBS specials, and love Antiques Roadshow.
My mother writes her friends and sometimes calls. She and dad remember the 1950's and 60's and their adventures at the University.
But they can not get out of bed on their own, and require a hoyer lift. So - food had to be made for them (yes, they can feed themselves once food is brought), they have to be cleaned up in bed (and thus wear disposable briefs), they get bedbaths.
Who am I to say that their lives have no meaning? Who are you?
I realize you're not talking about my parents, except to say that in their situation - you would prefer to die quickly as you feel that life would be horrible and unlivable.
They don't. So, we do the best we can to keep them happy and relatively healthy.
They both have living wills. They both do not want "heroic measures" if there is no meaningful chance for this same level of quality of life.
That means if a first heart attack happens (they've never had any heart attacks) - yes - we perform CPR. If, they find out they have stage 4 cancer - we do nothing and let it take its course (pain medicine of course).
At the doctor's office, they just asked my dad when his last colonoscopy was. He's never had one. He and I both said "yeah - we're not going to do that". They marked him down as refused. He's 85, and bed bound. While he's happy - if they find colon cancer (he has absolutely no symptoms, no concerns) - he'd refuse chemo/surgery. So why even bother finding out?
Sometimes you become dependent very unexpectedly, but you still enjoy life.
I hope for you that doesn't happen. That you are the small minority who lives healthfully, independently, right up until the day you drop.
But - please - realize that everyone feels differently, and that your way is not the way for others, and that sometimes you make it sound like you feel it should be.
Wayland Woman, that's a really thought-provoking post. You caused me to think how each sibling has his/her strengths. My sister is excellent at keeping her cool, so I have her e-mail and do phoning where I know I might totally lose my cool thinking they're not putting my parents first or not being extra-careful about them. (It's good to keep good relations with doctors, etc.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman
Eyewrist, I agree with many of the things you're saying. Just because you put a parent in a nursing home that doesn't mean you can just walk away and not look back. My husband's mother was in one for many years and we HAD to go twice a week---one time to iron out problems like lost teeth, shoes and clothing and to confer with the aids caring for her, and one time to attempt a quality visit. Her roommate had no one to look out for her and we could see different in how she was treated without a 'squeaky wheel' in her life to act as her advocate.
Another thing that I haven't seen mentioned in connection with putting a parent in a nursing home is money. Lots of families don't want to see their inheritance eaten up paying for a nursing home and will start home care thinking it will only be a year or two. So they get locked into a cycle that is hard to break out of as time passes. My brother and I made the decision to share care my dad at his home because we wanted to keep from having to sell a cottage on a lake (his home) that had been in the family for several generations. If we had putting him in a nursing home we either would have had to come up with the cash to private pay the nursing home bills or to sell the cottage because you can't have assets and expect the state or Medicare to cover the costs. They won't. We ended up sharing-caring Dad for five years and it was tough but, for us, it was well worth the effort. We both felt strongly about keeping Dad where he wanted to be and about keeping the cottage in the family. My spouse was very supportive of me spending so much time at my dad's but my brother's spouse wasn't so much. Lots of variables goes into caring for an elderly parent, no matter how you handle it.
As for how to get adult siblings to help, my suggestion is to do a lot of homework on all the options available to the family to care for a parent including costs, etc., for each choice and how each option impacts the siblings in terms of time and money. Then call a family meeting of the siblings (minus their spouses for the first go-around) and lay it all out. You need to know what each person is willing and able to do or not do. As a woman and the youngest sibling in the beginning I had to remind my brother that I was not an only child and whatever we we'd have to share what had to be done. When it was all over, my brother and I had grown closed and had learned to respect each other and to related as adults...not the same "pecking order" we had as children.
I hope it all goes according to your plan. But - realistically, very few people live a "long healthy life" and then drop dead.
So - most people will require care for a time - be it a few months, or several years.
While you may not wish to continue to live if you lose control of your bodily functions, many others might.
When you write in that way it sounds as though you are suggesting that your way of doing things (i.e. I will not burden my children, I would rather die than have my daughter change my adult brief) is the CORRECT way of doing things.
and thus the rest of us, and our parents, have somehow made the wrong choice.
Now - clearly you are just expressing your own personal preference, and you are certainly entitled to it. But the way you say it - (and tempers get very sensitive on this board, as these are very emotional topics) seems to suggest judgment for others who choose differently.
As for me - I CHOSE to take my parents in. While they are bed-ridden, and yes - using adult briefs (because they can't get up to use the commode) - it happened very suddenly, and otherwise their health conditions are manageable. They are mentally very competent.
Indeed, when you deal with them, you are generally impressed by how ALIVE they are. They are not simply hollow creatures waiting to die.
They've been with me (bed-ridden, and needing adult briefs changed) for 4 years. (well - 3.5 right now).
They seem to like their life. They don't complain about their lack of mobility (I, in my 30s, would go insane if I couldn't get out of bed ... but maybe the world looks different when you're 85). They enjoy seeing the seasons out their windows, the birds - the flowers. They follow their sports teams (go Detroit Tigers!! go Detroit Lions!! go Red Wings!). They watch PBS specials, and love Antiques Roadshow.
My mother writes her friends and sometimes calls. She and dad remember the 1950's and 60's and their adventures at the University.
But they can not get out of bed on their own, and require a hoyer lift. So - food had to be made for them (yes, they can feed themselves once food is brought), they have to be cleaned up in bed (and thus wear disposable briefs), they get bedbaths.
Who am I to say that their lives have no meaning? Who are you?
I realize you're not talking about my parents, except to say that in their situation - you would prefer to die quickly as you feel that life would be horrible and unlivable.
They don't. So, we do the best we can to keep them happy and relatively healthy.
They both have living wills. They both do not want "heroic measures" if there is no meaningful chance for this same level of quality of life.
That means if a first heart attack happens (they've never had any heart attacks) - yes - we perform CPR. If, they find out they have stage 4 cancer - we do nothing and let it take its course (pain medicine of course).
At the doctor's office, they just asked my dad when his last colonoscopy was. He's never had one. He and I both said "yeah - we're not going to do that". They marked him down as refused. He's 85, and bed bound. While he's happy - if they find colon cancer (he has absolutely no symptoms, no concerns) - he'd refuse chemo/surgery. So why even bother finding out?
Sometimes you become dependent very unexpectedly, but you still enjoy life.
I hope for you that doesn't happen. That you are the small minority who lives healthfully, independently, right up until the day you drop.
But - please - realize that everyone feels differently, and that your way is not the way for others, and that sometimes you make it sound like you feel it should be.
best to you.
I know that we have wandered far off-topic so I'll be brief.
Yes, all my comments are based on my own experiences as a caregiver in various capacities for my father, an aunt and uncle and now my mother. I do realize that I may become frail and incapacitated and based on what I've seen, I'd rather die than live that way for long. I agree that others clearly feel differently.
I admire people who provide hands-on care for their parents. Due to my circumstances it is not something I am able to do for my mother, but I have found what I believe to be an excellent placement for her and visit regularly. Others may find that decision appalling, but frankly, I don't care what others think about the decisions I've made. Nor do I judge others for decisions they've made.
I don't WANT to go to a nursing home, but I'd prefer to do that than burden my daughter with my care. If it means I'm uncomfortable and die sooner rather than later, I'm ok with that. Again, others feel differently and that's their business.
You're right, Briolat. As that saying goes, "We plan and God laughs." For all our planning, things seldom turn out the way we want them to, particularly with regard to our own health, independence, and longevity.
As far as I know, I don't think anyone wants to end up in a nursing home, or feeling not being independent, or relying on others, or using Depends, or being fed, or feeling lonely, having no balance, feeling ill, or any of that. I've yet to meet one person that wants any of that. Nobody is signing up on that list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Briolat21
Marlow -
I hope it all goes according to your plan. But - realistically, very few people live a "long healthy life" and then drop dead.
So - most people will require care for a time - be it a few months, or several years.
While you may not wish to continue to live if you lose control of your bodily functions, many others might.
When you write in that way it sounds as though you are suggesting that your way of doing things (i.e. I will not burden my children, I would rather die than have my daughter change my adult brief) is the CORRECT way of doing things.
and thus the rest of us, and our parents, have somehow made the wrong choice.
Now - clearly you are just expressing your own personal preference, and you are certainly entitled to it. But the way you say it - (and tempers get very sensitive on this board, as these are very emotional topics) seems to suggest judgment for others who choose differently.
As for me - I CHOSE to take my parents in. While they are bed-ridden, and yes - using adult briefs (because they can't get up to use the commode) - it happened very suddenly, and otherwise their health conditions are manageable. They are mentally very competent.
Indeed, when you deal with them, you are generally impressed by how ALIVE they are. They are not simply hollow creatures waiting to die.
They've been with me (bed-ridden, and needing adult briefs changed) for 4 years. (well - 3.5 right now).
They seem to like their life. They don't complain about their lack of mobility (I, in my 30s, would go insane if I couldn't get out of bed ... but maybe the world looks different when you're 85). They enjoy seeing the seasons out their windows, the birds - the flowers. They follow their sports teams (go Detroit Tigers!! go Detroit Lions!! go Red Wings!). They watch PBS specials, and love Antiques Roadshow.
My mother writes her friends and sometimes calls. She and dad remember the 1950's and 60's and their adventures at the University.
But they can not get out of bed on their own, and require a hoyer lift. So - food had to be made for them (yes, they can feed themselves once food is brought), they have to be cleaned up in bed (and thus wear disposable briefs), they get bedbaths.
Who am I to say that their lives have no meaning? Who are you?
I realize you're not talking about my parents, except to say that in their situation - you would prefer to die quickly as you feel that life would be horrible and unlivable.
They don't. So, we do the best we can to keep them happy and relatively healthy.
They both have living wills. They both do not want "heroic measures" if there is no meaningful chance for this same level of quality of life.
That means if a first heart attack happens (they've never had any heart attacks) - yes - we perform CPR. If, they find out they have stage 4 cancer - we do nothing and let it take its course (pain medicine of course).
At the doctor's office, they just asked my dad when his last colonoscopy was. He's never had one. He and I both said "yeah - we're not going to do that". They marked him down as refused. He's 85, and bed bound. While he's happy - if they find colon cancer (he has absolutely no symptoms, no concerns) - he'd refuse chemo/surgery. So why even bother finding out?
Sometimes you become dependent very unexpectedly, but you still enjoy life.
I hope for you that doesn't happen. That you are the small minority who lives healthfully, independently, right up until the day you drop.
But - please - realize that everyone feels differently, and that your way is not the way for others, and that sometimes you make it sound like you feel it should be.
Location: Went around the corner & now I'm lost!!!!
1,544 posts, read 3,599,250 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlow
I have spent plenty of time in nursing homes. My aunt and uncle were both in one not that long ago and I visited frequently. They vary in quality. I researched all the NH's in the area before they went and found the highest rated one in our community. Every time I saw them they appeared to be well cared for.
But here is my point: By the time I'm ready for nursing home level care, I'll be ready to die anyway. I do not want my life prolonged until I can't walk on my own, am using diapers and eating pureed mush for years. Death is preferable to that kind of existence. AND, I don't want my daughter to have to spend years of her life changing my diaper. The fact that I took care of her as an infant doesn't mean that she owes me years of doing the same thing. Hopefully she'll be taking care of her own family at that point, or enjoying life as a healthy and prosperous adult.
Like most people, I hope to live a long, happy life and then drop dead. If that doesn't happen, I don't intend to burden anyone with my care. My daughter is a sweet, loving girl and I imagine she'll be a sweet, loving adult. She may very well make an effort to care for me in some way if/when I need it. But I will not ask or expect her to compromise her own life so that I can vegetate in a hospital bed in her house and have her come home from work and spoon feed me and change my Depend.
I am not talking about visiting, I am talking about working there; those are totally two different things. If the nursing home knew you were coming or knew your days you were coming,, they got them ready before you stepped through the door. That's why I tell anyone who puts a family member in a NH to do "drive bys" which means change your time schedule when you come to visit as often as possible. And dropping dead? LOL, the NH will try to keep you alive as long as possible even with a DNR directive to make $$ off of you. I been the medical field for over 25 years and have run across only ONE nursing home that was of quality and that was because the adminstrator cared about the patient at that nursing home. But the owner of the nursing home tell the adminstrator what to do and they must do it or lose their job. But usually the give them "incentive bonus pay" for finding ways to save money that usually affect the residents of the home and the underpaid aides.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
