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Old 07-15-2010, 08:11 AM
 
541 posts, read 1,335,127 times
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I have a cat (aprox 2 years old).The other days i went shopping with husby.I let him five minutes alone,he comes back with a sweet tiger kitten (he decided suddenly to adopt him from somebody,who was in front of teh store trying to give his kittens to adoption).The kitten must be 7,8 weeks old,very active and courageous.So we brought him home and the reaction was unbelievable.The little cat chased the old cat away.They are both outdoors,only evening sleep in the garage.Fact is the little one,took everything away from the big one,he does not even allow him in the garage any more,he thinks all the yard is his.He chased the big one so bad,that the big one almost fell into the pool.He is afraid of this little kitten,although he is soo big and strong.The old cat is very courageous,fighted with racoons,other cats,but this little one just confuses him,too aggresive for him.It is so funny,the little one is little but very courageous ,very strong on position and very agressive,only when big cat shows up.Will they ever get friends??Or is too big gap between them?I love my old cat and i feel sorry to see,how he is chased away,he is not even allowed any more to sleep in the garage,the little one chase him immediatelly away,when he tries to come in.His favourite places are taken from the little one,the old one is so afraid that he jumps the fence to teh neighborh and comes back only when the little one is not around.I have no experience with 2 cats.Maybe you have some advice.Thanks.Sorry for my english,i am european.
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Old 07-15-2010, 09:23 AM
 
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I think the kitten is too young to be outdoors. I don't think any cat should be outside unless strictly supervised and kept on your property. I can't see them getting along at all in this kind of environment. My only advice is to make them both indoor kitties where you can slowly introduce the kitten to the older cat.
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Old 07-15-2010, 04:55 PM
 
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i am european and i think different about it...my old cat loves the outdoor,i would never put him in jail,closed in one house...we have a fence all around the property because we have a pool (required hier in california) and kitten can not spring over the fence so he remains on the property and consider it his teritory..but older cat can spring over the fence and he really enjoys his freedom...he knows all the neighborhood and i would never force him to be an indoor animal...none of the cats..all the cats in my neighborhood are outdoor animals,we live in a very nice area...and i consider cats have a great orientation sense and i am totaly against keeping animals indoors..it is like a jail,a forced one...my old cat developed so beautiful after he went outside..we lived in napa valley on a beautiful property,nature,with own creek..i would have never kept him in the house..in europe most of the animals are outdoors and they love it..they know,where the house is,their neiighborhood and so on...we moved to southcalifornia,my older cat adjusted with no problems,he loves the neighborhood hier...cats are very smart,have great orientation and as long as you live in a safe,beautiful neighborhood i do not see any reason,why to keep them in jail...and my opinion,if you do not live in a safe neighborhood,do not take a pet,just to held him in jail,i do not agree with that..i saw big poor dogs in small appartements,this is so horrible....animals love their freedom,they have great instincts and they are not supposed to live in jail,just to entertain us...

kitten knows all the property in the meantime,the problem is ,he wants it only for himself...he is very teritorial..he must learn to share...
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:18 PM
 
Location: I'm not lost, I'm exploring!
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I'm guessing you let your kitten run loose unsupervised outside before having it tested by a vet, or fixed/neutered/spayed, as well? So it can start populating your beautiful country with more unwanted kittens.

Some people think it's cruel to keep a cat contained inside the house.
Some people let their toddlers play alone in the street.

I don't know where you are from in Europe, but there were steep fines and penalties up to and including quartatine/confiscation in the 4 countries I lived in overseas, if your animals were caught outdoors and unsupervised, whether it be a rat, sheep, cow, horse, dog, cat, parrot, etc.

Life expectancy for indoor cats = 12-18 years of age. Many may live to be in their early 20s. The oldest reported cat was 28 years old at the time of death.

Life expectancy for outdoor cats = generally live to be around four to five years of age.


Even if you rule out other animals from attacking them, or being far enough away from heavy traffic - they can chase, catch, and digest pesticides, or an infected bird or rodent that can have them dead in less than 24 hours - on top of spreading it to your other resident cat, as well.

I realize this isn't the time or place for a rant on outdoor versus indoor - I've had cats before that were outdoor. I don't anymore. We have one resident cat, who is ancient, and set in her ways, my mother's cat. She goes outside to sit on the porch sometimes. She's too old to do much of anything else except enjoy little pieces of what she used to - and that's it. She comes back inside after a few minutes. All my other kitties were raised not to go outside on their own. It's not safe. No matter where you live.

Keeping large dogs in tiny aparments is a tragedy, yes.
Seeing teeny kittens run rampant outdoors unsupervised is as well, imo.
She was safer in the box in the front of the store.

Good luck.
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Old 07-15-2010, 09:15 PM
 
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You may have a different view of cats being outdoor pets, but the facts are that outdoor cats have much shorter life spans and are susceptible to a whole host of diseases. Whether or not the return to your home is not the issue. Whether or not they are SAFE is the issue. Even with a fence, cats can and will find a way out of your yard whether that be climbing/jumping over or squeezing through a gap (my strays fit through the SMALLED holes in our fence!)

There is a huge difference between a home, and a jail. Houses are not jails. Houses, unless they are tiny, are spacious and provide ample space for a cat or two or three to roam around, run around, jump and climb, and stay safe.

I find it hard to believe the kitten will be strongly bonded to you before it finds its way out of your yard never to return. Just because you decide "you are my cat now" doesn't mean it got the message. Just because you feed it, doesn't mean there isn't someone in the neighborhood that will feed it something it likes better.

~Katy
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Old 07-15-2010, 10:21 PM
 
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Regardless of the indoor/outdoor issue...

What you are allowing to take place is just grossly unfair to your older cat. I have to admit I got quite cross reading your post.... there's nothing remotely funny in an animal being turfed out of its home, the size of the one doing the turfing notwithstanding.

Your older cat has given you years of love and companionship. And you repay this with allowing what you describe to take place? No, sorry - NO excuse. None.

Your older cat is wandering around confused and miserable and you ALLOW the kitten to continue to push the older cat around up to and including to take away where it's used to sleeping?!

If you are not going to take action and this all ends very badly (which it will) you will have no one to blame but yourself.

I'd say words fail me, but it would be a lie. I have long strings of words I'd like to use now but undoubtedly they'd (rightfully) be deleted.
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Old 07-16-2010, 07:07 AM
 
Location: California
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FiveHorses has stated it best.
As far, as the indoor/outdoor debate...couldn't agree more with the previous posters.
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Old 07-16-2010, 08:18 PM
 
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my older car (around 2) is fixed,has his own vet since he was some weeks old,goes to salon on regulary base and is an excellent shape.The kitten is too young to be fixed,my vet knows about him and will see him and he will enjoy first class care...the little one will get the same care like the big one..tomorrow we go to saloon,with both,they enjoy excellent care...nails cut,hair done and so on..

my opinion is,i do not interfare into the nature,i do not force animals,they will find a way to become friends..and today morning i saw them very close to each other,withouht being agressive any more...they will at the end accept each other...it takes some time,but i let nature his own way..i do not force things..the big cat must find his way..cats in closed spaces become very teritorial..vet adviced to let the kitten as much as possible outside,close to big cat,doctor totally supports the outdoor in MY SITUATION!!!!!!with my living conditions

this life expectations mentioned above are not generally valide..most of the cats in europe in my neighborhood are outside and they live many years and do not get sick...in northcalifornia cats were all outdoor in my neighborhhod (was a private,green,rich neighborhood)..if you live in a beautiful environment,is nothing to worry about..my old cat is absolutely beautiful and in great shape..life expectations depends on the conditions u have to offer too...you can not generalize..

kakers your answer i totally disagree...my old cat is tottaly bound to me because i gave him freedom,he wanted out,enjoy the creek,the nature..cats find ways to come out and so it should be..they should jump,experience,discover...i consider it jail to keep an animal inside your house all the time,not to give him the chance to experience,to go out...my old cat is the best proof,that outdoor animals in a safe environment develo best..he is a beauty of cat,absolutely healthy,get his shoots on time...
but once again..my outdoor might be different then yours...my first house was in napa valley,beautiful nature,own creek,a dream...hier in south california,the same conditions..beautiful exotical landscape..my cat enjoys sleeping under teh shadow of palmtrees different sizes,near the huge fountain (he sleep there listen to the waterfall),pool ..we live like in paradise and the neighborhood is high class,teh best conditions...green and beautiful...and very safe...all teh cats are outdoor and nothing happens to any...it would be cruel not allow them to enjoy such a beautiful yard,garden and beautiful environment..for nothing in the world..all the cats in the neighborhood enjoy excellent care,good situated famillies...so all depends on the conditions you offer..your concerns are not valid for my neighborhood and my vet ,a profesional has the same opinion like me...

kakers ..never to return..no,they have excellent orientation and we moved form north to south...he learnt fast his new home and environment...they are much smarter then you imagine...but like i said,if i lived in a bad environment and i would be afraid to let my kitty out,then i woudl not get a kitty..hier nothing,but nothing can happen to him in such neighborhood..my old one is around 2 years old and never soemthing happened and absolut FREE..i love freedom and liberty...and my cats deserve to be free...

Last edited by Buburuza13; 07-16-2010 at 08:32 PM..
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Old 07-16-2010, 08:38 PM
 
Location: I'm not lost, I'm exploring!
3,401 posts, read 13,342,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buburuza13 View Post
my opinion is,i do not interfare into the nature,i do not force animals.
You know you can't really back out of interfering with nature, when by nature, cats were domesticated by man? And in essence, you're trying to "feralize" what humans have spent centuries evolving and breeding out the wild characteristic traits in common household pets? One of humanities greatest balancing acts is constantly trying not to interfere with wild life, and preserve it - and counter that with being responsible for the domesticated livlihood it has created within the millions of homeless and mistreated animals in the world.

Time for an analogy That would be like me pitching a fit over the production of printer paper, buying a case, and shredding the entire reams, and sprinkling it in my backyard. By nature, it is meant to return to nature... everyone else is just going to stop and scratch their head and worry. You're not releasing the paper back to it's proper and "natural" state in the backyard with the rest of the trees growing wild to live out its happy free floaty paper life - ...you're just making a mess. And advocating it, nonetheless!

Your high-class beautiful community may play against you as far as harboring an outdoor cat goes. This popped up in response to a recent proposal to allow outdoor cats to be acceptable to hunt as legal game, if they are outdoors, they are wildlife. That's nature, right? If they are kept indoors, they are pets.

And this is not a generalization. This is the Fish and Wildlife Council. They've been around making silly laws since 1945.
"Jeannette Vreeland, acting chair of the Fish and Game Council, asked if outdoor cats could be added to the list of animals that could be hunted, according to council meeting minutes. This week she defended the resolution. “When a cat is left to roam outside the house it becomes a character who kills birds and small mammals — rabbits, chipmunks, and is a distress to the community at large, having no handler.” she said on Thursday. “It’s really not a natural, native animal. They are exotic and not meant to be outdoors.” In summary, it's a state by state procession, but progressively, if you own a cat, it will be indoors. If it is outdoors, there are people out there fighting for the right to have it either a) removed to a rehabilitation center for wildlife, or b) a protected game reserve.

Last edited by Marylandkitten; 07-16-2010 at 09:06 PM..
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Old 07-16-2010, 09:36 PM
 
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Your older cat deserves to be comfortable in the home he's known for eight years and with the humans he trusted. Your cat will probably disappear permantly if this kitten stays. Some cats just don't take to a new addition.

My suggestion is to find a new home for the kitten. Pronto.

As for outdoor/indoor: I'm sorry you're getting kind of beat up on that issue. All the cats I've had were allowed to go outside, and they've done fine. Howevever; they are inside most of the time. I've had success with having healthy, long lived cats. They are well cared for, pampered, and loved as much as I can love anything. It's a personal decision, but I don't believe that any pet should be left outside all the time. At least your cat has/had the garage.
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