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I feed my cat the regular Wellness Chicken, Chicken & Herring, Turkey, and Turkey & Salmon since they are the only flavors that are grain-free that I feel are appropriate (the Beef and Beef & Salmon recipes are also grain-free, but she doesn't like them and I don't think my 9 lb kitty will be hunting a 500 lb hefer anytime soon!). I also feed her both the CORE chicken and fish flavors. All these go in rotation. I also give her the CORE Fish & Fowl kibble as free feed, and it's the only kibble that I would contemplate letting her eat... even though she just nibbles on it now that she's primarily on wet food.
I am planning to switch her to raw eventually, but she's resisted my efforts so far. I may have to lightly cook her meats and put them through the grinder. I definitely think that poultry, rabbit, and a little fish are the best choices... things that a cat her size would normally have a chance at catching and eating in the wild. Don't think she'd be hunting lamb or beef.
My only dilema is dairy... she is a cheese maniac, and when we get our goats I'll have a lot of whey and fresh cheese that are good protein but you hear such conflicting reports about dairy and cats. This wouldn't be sodium-filled cheese from the store, but natural homemade cheese and yogurt with no weird crap in it.
I'll probably still keep a bag or two of the CORE kibble around for her, but once we start raising our own livestock, I think it'll be cheaper to feed her homemade. I think the Wellness brands are a great improvement over almost any other cat food, but they hit the wallet a little hard.
I agree. Yet, I do feed my cats lamb, first as a trial, then when I saw how much they liked it, on a regular basis. Lamb must mimic an animal a wild animal eats. Why do I say this? My wild barn cat who now comes into my home freely, loves the lamb, and she eats ONLY meats comparable to what she hunts. The only exception to that rule is the Weruva BBQ Red Eye Salmon, which she absolutely loves.
Again, as said in a previous post of mine, I think variety in a cat's diet is very important, too. Wild cats eat a variety of different critters and birds, and since all cats' metabolisms are the same, I have adopted the wild cats' eating patterns to my cats.
And yes, Wellness Core is expensive. There is no way of getting around that. In my little corner of the world, my thoughts go something like this.......IF such and such is so important to my cats, how can I consistently buy that certain food? Mind over matter. Where there is will there is a way. I somehow always buy my cats the best foods, and nothing less. I have seen my cats in conditions that would make a grown man cry. Those images are never gone from my memory, so I do everything in my power to make sure my precious 4-footed angels stay healthy.
I agree that cats need the absolute best foods you can provide them... and I won't give her crap canned food to save money, but will give her fresh homemade food from our own livestock that provides a balanced and varied diet of animal proteins. Heck, I'd chuck mice in a blender for her if that's what she wanted I do give her treats that contain some of the larger animals since she likes a little bit of lamb, pork (loves ham & bacon!!), moose, and goat for a little variety but nothing routine.
After caring for my beloved Odin (RIP) through diabetes and CRF, and having his sweet sister, Celine (RIP) suffer a massive stroke due to improper diet (prescribed food no less!), I will never again feed my cats junky commercial pet food. Charlie only has one fang left because her teeth were so messed up from here previous owner feeding her crap... and that's part of the reason I think whole and raw is a little hard on her so I don't mind grinding or blending her food.
You can get away with feeding a dog a little less high quality food since they're omnivores (a *little* less - not complete garbage!), but kitties are carnivores pure and simple so they need good animal proteins, including organs skin fat and bone, to have balanced nutrition. It doesn't have to be "human" edible food to be good for the kitty, but it has to be high quality and comparable.
I agree that cats need the absolute best foods you can provide them... and I won't give her crap canned food to save money, but will give her fresh homemade food from our own livestock that provides a balanced and varied diet of animal proteins. Heck, I'd chuck mice in a blender for her if that's what she wanted I do give her treats that contain some of the larger animals since she likes a little bit of lamb, pork (loves ham & bacon!!), moose, and goat for a little variety but nothing routine.
After caring for my beloved Odin (RIP) through diabetes and CRF, and having his sweet sister, Celine (RIP) suffer a massive stroke due to improper diet (prescribed food no less!), I will never again feed my cats junky commercial pet food. Charlie only has one fang left because her teeth were so messed up from here previous owner feeding her crap... and that's part of the reason I think whole and raw is a little hard on her so I don't mind grinding or blending her food.
You can get away with feeding a dog a little less high quality food since they're omnivores (a *little* less - not complete garbage!), but kitties are carnivores pure and simple so they need good animal proteins, including organs skin fat and bone, to have balanced nutrition. It doesn't have to be "human" edible food to be good for the kitty, but it has to be high quality and comparable.
Due to the fact that you are a moderator, I was going to DM you. But, then I got to thinking, and said, "Self, (lol) that's just plain silly. This person is just like me, and loves her cats".
So, I decided to write here what I would have written in my DM. I hope that there are some here who can benefit from my words, as well as MissingAll4Seasons.
RE: Bacon, pork and ham. I have no proof, just my intuition, and it says no. They are high in fat, high in nitrates (unless you process them yourself), and high in salt. Not good for a feline diet. In fact, when I make my own raw diet, there is a very precise amount of salt according to the recipe, and I do not deter from that what so ever. Sodium chloride (salt) eaten in high quantities retains fluids in the body, and that is not something you want for any cat. You want their kidneys functioning at 100% all the time.
All meats given to cats should be given raw, except for pork. Never give raw pork due to the parasites it may contain.
Charlie who only has one fang left, can eat raw. Feline's Pride, a commercial raw diet, is very smooth, and can be eaten by a cat with no teeth. My raw is bit a chunkier, but, with a good meat grinder, you can make the consistency as smooth as you want to.
In case you haven't read this already, here is an excellent website that I highly recommend reading. It is a stepping stone, an educational source.
The most important factor, is to observe your cats, and see how they are responding to what you are feeding them. How do their coats look? Are their whiskers thick and long? Are they active? Are they sleeping deeply? Do they act happy?
I truly commend you for what you are doing, for you are definitely on the right track. In my opinion, there is always room for improvement, and education is an ongoing process.
I by no means have any intentions as coming off as a know-it-all. I am just passing information along to you, that I have either learned the hard way, learned from good internet sites, or just know from my "intuition".
Last edited by Garden of Eden; 10-04-2010 at 10:09 AM..
You can always argue with a moderator when they're posting as a normal person, this doesn't violate the TOS No worries.
I do agree with you that most processed meats (including ham, bacon, sausage and a lot of lunchmeats) are typically very high in fat, salt and nitrates and should not be part of your cat's regular diet. I reserve a nibble of these things as a rare treat only because she absolutely loves them. Even a cat in the wild would occasionally pilfer something that wasn't entirely healthy for them. But I do also get these items from a local organic farm who processes them himself with much lower amounts of sodium and nitrates than commercial versions.
Charlie won't eat the raw, no matter how smooth or chunky I grind it. I discussed this with Dr. Lisa Pierson (catinfo.org) when we were customizing a raw food recipe for Odin with his CRF & Diabetes. She said that *lightly* cooking the meats is fine if it makes the food more palatable, just add in the vitamin/mineral supps afterwards to minimize heat degradation. Egg whites added for low phosphorous protein (important with kidney disease) should always be cooked unless you know for certain that the eggs are fresh and the flock does not have an infection level of salmonella.
Trichinosis, caused by parasitic worms, can be a risk with consuming any raw or undercooked meats particularly domestic pork and wild game (and includes domestic and wild rabbit and duck). According to the CDC, freezing pork (or chicken or beef) for 20 days at or below 5F will kill the egg cysts, so you don't necessarily have to completely cook it if it's been frozen first. Freezing doesn't always work consistently with wild game meats, although it does seem to be successful with domestic rabbit and duck meat that has been infected. Which is good, because these are meats that commonly recommended for kitty raw diets, and even a light cooking for palatability wouldn't kill the worms.
I absolutely love Anne's work on catnutrition.org, and gave a copy of her handout, along with a copy of Dr. Hodgins book Your Cat, to my previous and current vets. Good information is always a blessing.
Thank you, for this information. I was unaware of what freezing meat is able to do. We are all learning, and in sharing what we do know with each other, it is a wonderful way to increase our knowledge base.
The biggest problem with too much fish and cats, particularly raw fish, is that it can unbalance their vitamins and cause deficiencies or overloads. Fish is etremely good for kitty in the proper balance, prepared the right way. Too much cod liver oil, or too much raw oily red fish (like tuna or salmon) can lead to Vitamin A, E and D overloads since these are very high in those fat soluble vitamins. Cooking does diminish these vitamins slightly, but it's better to practice moderation and feed raw instead since these and other vitamins are too important to destroy by cooking.
Also, many fish are high in thiaminase, which destroys thiamine (B1) and could lead to deficiency (Beri Beri) if kitty eats them raw... for those fish, eating them cooked is fine, since it destroys the thiaminase. Here's a list of the thiaminase occurence in most fish (fin and shell).
Freezing fish for the same period and temperature as pork will kill any tape worms.
And all this cooked vs raw, fresh vs frozen, leads to another interesting point... canning vs. freezing. You can get a lot of high quality pet food meats at reasonable cost by buying in bulk and saving it for later, but meat is perishable so you have to store it somehow. This is an extremely important concern if you're someone (like me) who doesn't live on the grid or have a refrigerator, and only has a tiny solar-powered DC chest freezer (although I can freeze stuff in the shed just fine in all winter LOL).
Any conventional steam/pressure canning is going to cook the meat, but it's perfectly safe to can meat in a steam/pressure canner as long as you follow the instructions. The meat will most definitely get to a high enough temperature to kill any parasites and other nasties. However, it's best to can only the meat, not the prepared pet food, and add back in the all the supps in the recipe before feeding since heat and storage does destroy or degrade some nutrients. Properly canned meats can, in theory, last indefinitely although it is best to eat them within the year for highest quality. This essentially results in a canned cat food base like the high-end brands -- you know the ones that are all meat, but have the warning on the label that this is not a balanced food intended for full-time feeding.
ETA: If you can meat with the bones still in them, you should either fine grind them (before or after canning) or remove the bones before feeding since the bones will be cooked... only raw bones are safe for cats & dogs to eat whole.
If you have the freezer space to store your homemade pet foods, freezing does not degrade the nutrient content in most foods significantly, and most raw pet food recipes can be frozen in a sealed container for up to a year... although if you're using egg whites in your recipe for phosphorus reasons, you may want to add those in after thawing, since they get a rubbery texture when frozen and thawed and your pet may not like them.
You can also dry slices/slabs of many meats into a "jerky" and they will last up to 3 months in a sealed container kept in a cool, dark, dry area. You can either rehydrate them prior to feeding, either whole or ground, with the additional supps; or you can break them into bit sizes for ultra-healthy treats. Dried chicken strips soaked overnight in a little salmon oil is a favorite with my critters, as is dried salmon strips!
Last edited by MissingAll4Seasons; 10-04-2010 at 01:15 PM..
Reason: note about bones in canned meats
Great info! See what I mean when I say there is always room for improvement and that I will be learning to the day I die??? LOL So much we can do for our beloved angels, yet, we all have to know what is safe, what is not, and how to feed in variety but in moderation. Hmmmmmm....another brain at times would come in handy. LOL LOL LOL
RE: fish......My opinion.....NEVER feed raw. No exceptions to that rule. And your post explains what my "gut feeling" knew. Thank you!
In reading this thread, I have come to realize one of the major things wrong with my Bella, whom I rescued, it will be 2 years this coming 13th of October, had been eating far too much fish. The previous owner only fed her Blue Buffalo Grilled Tuna, the only brand and flavor Bella would eat. So, I continued, not realizing too much fish is not good.
Her fur was very sparse and weak, with absolutely no shine to it, even though she was eating fish. She was miserable, but take into consideration she was abused and filthy, so her state of mind was not only because of too much fish. I switched her diet to my raw, BUT the only way Ms. Finicky will eat it is with about one-half tsp. of Weruva Red Eye Salmon mixed in with it. I tried, I honestly tried to eliminate the fish, BUT she will not eat. Grrrrrrr.........
Today her fur is thick and luxurious and very clean and white. I don't know if it is because of her breed or because she is not 100% healthy yet, but she is a shedder. Her eyes are clear and healthy, and her attitude is "I am royalty, so treat me as thus!" LOL
Do you think the amount of fish I am giving to her twice daily is too much? She is getting approximately 1 teaspoon of salmon per day.
Last edited by Garden of Eden; 10-04-2010 at 03:14 PM..
I think that amount of salmon is fine. I'm not a vet, but most homemade recipes call for that much salmon or cod liver oil daily so the actual meat should be fine. Salmon is one of the fish that is fine to feed raw or cooked, thiaminase is not a factor there, and none of those symptoms sound like too much A/D/E. As long as her fur is shiny and isn't coming out in huge clumps, the shedding may just be her breed or possibly hyperthyroid (but I'm sure you had the vet check for that already )
Charlie gets picky with her food as well, and I can normally tempt her to eat something new with a little bit of salmon, tuna, salmon oil, or yogurt. She *really* loves cheese, but I try not to give her too much of that until I start making my own; but cheese is still the only way I can sneak her pills.
Very good discussion & points you have going here. I'm almost sorry to jumpin. lol
But I have a big concern, now that I bought a case of Wellness Core canned chicken. I see that some are reporting that their cat got urine crystals, etc. from canned Core. Does anyone have any info re: this?
If so, I'd switch back to the bit cheaper regular Wellness canned Chicken but am not sure what to do. She ate the 1st can last night but is not too keen yet on the 2nd can of Core. I'm wondering if she really does not like it & notices a big change? It has more protein, less fat (my selling point) in this canned Core but not sure she cares.
Thanks again all.
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I do give her treats that contain some of the larger animals since she likes a little bit of lamb, pork (loves ham & bacon!!), moose, and goat for a little variety but nothing routine.
