Vaccinations and the immune system (blood, antibiotics, dog, main)

[emilybh]

Originally Posted by goyguy

The key is finding an ethical vet not focused on profit, which was not my experience with the VOA franchise I took Weasie to for too long but happily is the case now. Seeing a big display of pet foods in the lobby of the office should be the first indication that this is not where you want to be taking your beast.
Weasie was subjected to a laundry list of "necessary" vaccinations in the VOA franchise days. Her current vet told me straight up that she was safely innoculated for life against everything but rabies. For that she's given a mild booster shot every three years. Seeing as how she's approaching her nineteenth birthday as an indoor-outdoor cat, the dubiously essential injections from earlier times couldn't have been all that damaging.

They may not even be focused on profit. They just don't think outside the box and don't have the time to read the medical journals that document the dangers of the vaccines ---and they just act like robots. But I KNOW for a fact that it was indeed the veterinary "care" and the unhealthful Veterinary recommended diet that caused the conditions that my cat developed and his premature death. I had him since he was 8 weeks old so it couldn't have been anything else.

Needless to say, for my 16 year old Norwegian Forest Cat that I have had for 13 years, for most of those he was under the care of a Holistic vet who AGREED with me about foregoing the vaccinations and also AGREED with me about continuing with his raw food diet. Unfortunately I didn't adopt him until he had already developed FUS. What he lived through during his first three years may have enduring negative effects on his health but I am using all the natural care I can to help him combat them and help him live a long high quality life.

[=^..^=]

Originally Posted by Phoenix lady

We had a vet who recommended against vaccinating our one cat because she had different disease processes and felt it would challenge her immune system too much, along with her age. It's individual. I don't think vaccines are without risk, but sometimes without vaccines is full of risks. Depends on situation. Nothing in life is black and white.

A sick or elderly cat is a whole different ballgame. I'm talking about healthy cats. If the ill or elderly cat had received her vaccinations before age or illness set in, she would be protected already so it would be a non-issue. And no, I don't believe in yearly boosters. From what I've read online and heard through the cat grapevine, the shots last much longer than only a year. My vet agreed.

There is nothing that is without risk. A cat can be hit by a car if you let her/him outside. They can poison themselves in their own homes by getting hold of something toxic accidentally left around. LIFE itself is a risk.

[=^..^=]

Originally Posted by luvmycat

For cats who go outside at all, vaccinations are a must IMO...unfortunately, not all the vaccs out there are as effective as we'd like them to be, so an outdoor cat can still catch a disease even if it has been vaccinated for it...

Unfortunately, this is true. Not all of the vaccines produce 100% immunity. My main concern are those diseases that survive in the environment after a sick cat passes, defecates or urinates or dies somewhere nearby. Pan' is the worst I can think of. Even cats that never left their apartments would come down with this one. How? Did their owners bring it on their shoes? Pet a cat in the street or a friend's sick cat? Sometimes the owners were clueless as to how the cat was infected.

(and in the case of rabies, it depends where an animal is bitten, if it's on the head there's a good chance they'll catch this fatal disease anyway, the best way to protect against rabies is to keep your cats indoors unless they are supervised in an enclosed outdoor area)
...but some protection is better than no protection for a cat who is out there being exposed to everything, so regardless of how effective or not effective it might be, I'd say get it done if your kitty goes outside!

Thank you. I hope those with outside-inside cats heed your advice. But remember, the original post was about vaccines DESTROYING the immune system. This simply does not happen or all NYers my age would already be dead. I'm quite alive at 66.

[=^..^=]

Originally Posted by emilybh

I'll just say this. You will NEVER read a book by a Homeopathic Veterinarian or Naturopathic Veterinarian that will encourage giving pets vaccinations to improve health.

Who on earth ever claimed vaccinations IMPROVE heath? That's not what they're for. They're to give protection against disease and premature death, not to improve health.

The only reason... and to me it isn't good enough ...would be to have a healthy cat get a rabies vaccination (and to take Homeopathic Thuja before and after to try to mitigate any damaging side effects) to comply with state laws which are the result of nothing more than the Veterinary Assns colluding with the government to force people to take their pets in to see the vet regularly AND pay money for shots.

That's absurd! Rabies exists in the USA and it's found in the small animals cats prey on. Would these Homeopathic Veterinarians or Naturopathic Veterinarians rather we return to the days when people died from being bitten by their own pets gone mad with rabies? Was it common? No. But if it's your child or loved one... then it's a horror show. Do they even know what the "furious" form does to cats and dogs? Being an indoor only cat doesn't give lifetime protection against rabies. Mice, bats or small rats can manage to sneak into the cleanest homes. And no charms, lotions, herbs or potions from one of these Homeopathic Veterinarians or Naturopathic Veterinarians will prevent rabies or cure it once the animal or it's owner is infected.

It is ALL about the money (just as it is with humans) and NOT about the health of the animal. If you think about it, vets don't make money if your pets are healthy .So they have to dream up ways to get people to bring their pets in on a regular basis.

I'm sorry, but this is the typical claim you'll find on most Homeopathic and Naturopathic websites and yet these vets will take your money just as fast as any vet out there. Oh wait, do you mean they treat rabies and Pan' and other diseases for free? The last I heard they charge as much as regular vets if not more. Vaccines are profitable for vets, there's no doubt about it, but if that bothers you, you can buy all but the rabies vaccine at almost any co-op for less than half of what vets charge, and give it yourself.

The less my cat sees the vet the healthier he is. In fact the last time I brought my cat in because he kept shaking his head and scratching it, I paid $60 and the vet said he was "fine" and it turned out as I figured out later after it got worse he had ear mites. I took it upon myself to treat him with natural remedies recommended in two books I have and finally got rid of them.

And I'm sure you reported this vet for incompetency. If not, then it's you own fault the bad ones stay in business. Only a blind vet would miss ear mites. A simple cure... mineral oil mixed with iodine gets them every time. It'll also get hot spots on dogs, and ringworm. Where did I get this home remedy from? A veterinarian I worked with in the 1970s. Don't try and give them all bad rep because you happened to go to a bad or blind one.

If you look up the ingredients in vaccines for a human or an animal you'd be disgusted at the ingredients which include things like Formaldehyde and other poisons -- HARDLY anything that could remotely be considered healthful. I highly recommend people check out the World Assn for Vaccine Education if you want to learn what is in vaccines.
WAVE - World Association for Vaccine Education

I saw nothing there about vaccines DESTROYING the immune system which is what this thread is about. What is the alternative to vaccines? Shall we go back to the days of people and animals dying in large numbers from diseases that can be prevented? When I was a child in the late 1940s I well remember the other kids crippled by polio. This was before the vaccine that saved the rest of us from a horrible fate. I got both measles and chicken pox. A few kids in my borough died. A small number considering the number of kids who caught it.... but what if it were my brother or your child or parent? Vaccines have their problems but it's better than dying or left disabled or bedridden with a breathing apparatus to keep us alive like those unfortunates. For some reason Homeopaths and Naturopaths never discuss those days before vaccines came on the market. Ever wonder why?

[=^..^=]

Originally Posted by catsmom21

I know someone who had a rabid raccoon in her back yard this week. And I have a friend in a southern state where rabies is rampant. Rabies is alive and well in the wildlife here where I live, too. Leave my cats unprotected? Not a chance.

I take my cats to the vet for well checks every six months.

Why are people so against vets making a living?

And yet they don't mind handing their money over to a Homeopathic Veterinarian or a Naturopathic Veterinarian. It makes no sense since these vets don't treat animals for free nor can they save the pet's life once infected. All the supplements, concoctions and organic foods on earth wont prevent these viruses from invading a healthy animal. That's what makes the difference between more or less harmless organisms the body destroys every day, and those that are deadly with a high kill rate.

When one considers the considerable outflow of cash all vet's have in owning and running a clinic, I can honestly see why they may push vaccines more than is really necessary or why they sell pet foods for extra income. And take into account what they learn at the University about vaccines and pet foods.

They're usually still paying off their educations and for all the expensive equipment they need such as x-ray machines and anesthesia machines and safe SS cages in racks just to get off the ground. Even older vets have to upgrade their equipment. Add to that utilities, salaries, taxes, insurance.....

This may be politically incorrect to say, but I think a lot of people just don't want to spend their money on their cats. That, or they can't afford a regular vet due to limited income or owning too many cats. Can you imagine taking 10 or 15 or 20 or more cats to the vet for shots and check-ups?

[=^..^=]

Originally Posted by emilybh

I'm not against them making a living as long as they are helping and not hurting the patient. Most of the drugs and treatments cause more problems than they alleviate (and certainly conventional vets know precious little about what a healthful diet ought to consist of).

Can you provide sites listing the drugs that cause more problems then they alleviate? This is a serious claim you're making.

The forte of vets is in acute care. They can fix the injury or stabilize the animal but when it comes to restoring their robust health, that just isn't their strength (just as it isn't the strength of a conventional medical doctor). They simply weren't trained in prevention and wellness in school.

You're painting them all the same color and with the same brush. But I agree that too many recommend the dry kibble but that's what they learned in school. Others do research and learn on their own.
By then it was too late. I too had been bringing him religiously TO THE VET for those NASTY shots every six months. [/quote]

What shot was given every 6 months?

Probably he had Cardiomyopathy which Maine Coons are susceptible to ESPECIALLY IF VACCINATED TOO MUCH or at all. Darn it!

How often did you have him vaccinated?

So I decided to take him VOWING NEVER AGAIN to blindly follow a vet's advice about diet, prevention and wellness and with the help of my Naturopath and a mostly raw food diet keep this cat healthy. Knock on wood, he seems a lot younger than his 16 years (which my first cat should have lived to be and could have if I had only known about natural medicine and health back in those days).

I don't mean to sound unkind, but you could have done some research yourself when you got the first cat. Never blindly follow anyone's advice until you do some research yourself. And I agree, a raw diet, if you scientifically balance it, would be best for cats and dogs both.

So now you know where I'm coming from.I think vaccinations do more harm than good. To prevent my cat from coming in contact with a racoon that might be contagious with something, I simply would not let my cat go near the wild animal. He is mostly indoors or being watched if he is outdoors and he is trained to come when called. He plays with or maybe will eat a gecko, and that is about it.

And one day he may catch and eat or bite into a mouse or bat infected with rabies. Mostly indoors? That means he's exposed to all the diseases that exist in the cats in your area. Those that can live in the environment for awhile. He was probably vaccinated before you got him since he was a adult.

Any sort of AIDS or HIV condition is very treatable with a number of natural medicines and hardly prevented by vaccinations.

If this were true no one would die of AIDS, and they still are.

Think about it. How did the Indians survive when they got sick? They didn't have vaccinations or western medicine. They had what nature provided - natural medicine---which works if people would just give it a chance and go to someone, like a trained Naturopath who really knows about it.[/quote]The Naturopath forgot to tell you that many died when they got sick. The medicine man swinging beads and feathers over them, chanting and rattling his rattle along with some deer stew for dinner did not cure all of them. And he forgot to tell you that the American Indian did not suffer from the diseases the Europeans brought with them. Thousands of Indians died of pox, syphilis and other diseases they had no immunity against. This also goes for the Eskimo. These Indians were healthy because they ate good diets, drank pure water, got a lot of fresh air and exercise, were not exposed to European diseases, did not live in crowded polluted cities and were not exposed to all the toxic crap we are today.

[=^..^=]

Originally Posted by luvmycat

I don't do anything yearly except bloodwork and chemistry for the older pets...they've all had their sets of vaccinations during kitten & puppy-hood, and that's all that is needed IMO. It's definitely not that I don't want vets to get paid very well for what they do, it's that I genuinely don't believe it's in my animals' best interest to be shlepped to the vet every year just so they can be injected with chemicals they don't really need. People will disagree, and that's fine .

Snipped.

I agree with you 100%. I believe our animals are being over vaccinated. All my cats will get from now on is the one required by law - the rabies vaccine. That will be every three years. I'll drag it out longer if I can, but we travel and some states, campgrounds and RV Resorts have other laws concerning pets.

[Garden of Eden]

Emilybh, I want to personally thank you for carrying the Torch of Truth, writing here strongly and loudly about the dangers of vaccinations. I (((HUG))) you and send angels your way to protect you from those who will fight you.



I am doing my fighting these days no longer here, but in my vet's office, and she is listening. I have provided her with much information as well, and the result, not one word was said about vaccinating my Whispers who is FIV+, who by the way, has had zero vaccinations. So, progress is unfolding and I wanted to pass this along to those of you who need encouraging to keep telling the truth regarding vaccines.

This thank you post is regarding vaccinations, and nothing else that has been mentioned.

Emily, I think people are mistaking your words regarding FIV (not HIV). I have two FIV+ cats who I do treat holistically to keep as healthy as possible, but for the disease itself, no it is not treatable. There is no cure. I believe you know this, but your words kind of said something else.

Peace.

[catsmom21]

Originally Posted by emilybh

Any sort of AIDS or HIV condition is very treatable with a number of natural medicines and hardly prevented by vaccinations. Isn't it common knowledge that in years when they run out of the flu vaccine there are fewer incidents of the flu but when there is plenty to go around there are also more cases of the flu?

.

This is a very dangerous and inaccurate statement. Feline AIDS is NOT "treatable" nor is it curable. It is a fatal disease. Many cats live long lives in spite of the FIV, with special care, keepng them inside, keeping stress at a minimum, eliminating exposure to other cats who may have been outside (unknown germs). The illnesses an FIV+ cat may get because of the compromised immune system are treatable. The AIDS is not.

I agree that the FIV vaccine is not worth giving to any cat, especially because once given, any cat will test positive for FIV even if s/he is not.

I see someone else has already addressed your other sweeping generalizations so I'll keep my peace.

[luvmycat]

For the purposes of making this as simple as I can, I will highlight any quotes from the link I'm providing here in blue and they will also be italicized .

Dogs' and cats' immune systems mature fully at six months. If modified live-virus vaccine is giver after six months of age, it produces immunity, which is good for the life of the pet. If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the antibodies from the first vaccine neutralise the antigens of the second vaccine and there is little or no effect. The litre is no "boosted", nor are more memory cells induced.
Not only are annual boosters unnecessary, but they subject the pet to potential risks such as allergic reactions and immune-mediated haemolytic anaemia.

Science of Vaccine Damage

This is a link to the results of a study conducted at Purdue University School of Veterinary Medicine... though it was conducted on dogs, there is also information in here about cats and humans and general reactions of the immune system and effects on organ function after vaccines have been administered.

There are some pretty convincing arguments in this study that vaccinations DO affect the immune system...if we look at the number of cats who die from cancer that develops at vaccination sites, we can clearly see this...weakened immune systems can't fight off cancer, and they can't repair organ damage.

At around the same time, the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) Vaccine-Associated Feline Sarcoma Task Force initiated several studies to find out why 160,000 cats each year in the USA develop terminal cancer at their vaccine injection sites.(3)

Regardless of whether or not we acknowledge the immune system as the key player in the prevention of the sprouting and spreading of cancer/disease and the protection of organs & organ systems, we can't ignore numbers like this...here's another interesting tidbit...

The fact that cats can get vaccine-induced cancer has been acknowledged by veterinary bodies around the world, and even the British Government acknowledged it through its Working Group charged with the task of looking into canine and feline vaccines(4) following pressure from Canine Health Concern. What do you imagine was the advice of the AVMA Task Force, veterinary bodies and governments? "Carry on vaccinating until
we find out why vaccines are killing cats, and which cats are most likely to die."

Those of us who understand and integrate holistic preventative maintenance into our animals' regime also understand that the immune system is the KEY to vibrant health and protection for our furry companions and that the root of the physical side of holistic healing lies in the boosting of the immune system...feed it what it needs and keep anything and everything that could harm it as far away as possible. It's not about buying a zillion "potions", it's about maintaining wellness through the most natural and non-invasive means possible...mainly through diet! My primary vet is holistic/traditional, and he has the best prices around for just about everything...he doesn't sell any pet food, but he always gives new clients a printout in which he talks about the importance of diet in maintaining health, and actually states that IF we feed our furry friends appropriately, we should NOT have to visit his clinic very much at all...this is clearly not a vet who's trying to make a buck at any animal's expense. I found him when a dear cat of mine was dying from liver failure a few years ago...I had never spent a dime in his clinic, yet he took the time to talk to me for almost 30 minutes, offering advice that unfortunately came too late to save my little man. The damage was too far-gone by the time he showed any symptoms, he had been completely over-medicated, and the prednisone the old vet prescribed him for inflammation/arthritis killed whatever liver function he still had left...I later discovered that animals in liver failure can not convert prednisone efficiently and the undue stress in trying to convert it into prednisilone (sp?!) will cause the organ to fail completely. Add to that the denemarin, the clavamox, the appetite stimulant, the anti-nausea stuff, and the cortisone shots...he didn't have a chance . I'm not saying he could have been saved either way...if it was too late, it was too late...but I AM saying that even if it had not been too late, this overabundance of meds could have (and most likely would have) killed him. I apologize for getting slightly OT, but this is an attempt to show through my own experience that just because a vet tells you vaccinations aren't going to harm your pet, devastating things can, and do, happen as a direct result of them. It's scary enough to do it the first time, not knowing if they'll have some kind of lethal reaction or not...but to risk this every single year??? It is insane IMO...it's playing with fire!

It's easy to blame the owner and say "You should know everything about cats before you get one", but this is rarely the reality. Most people depend on their vets to know what's best for their animals...they assume the schooling they received was complete and that they wouldn't make a mistake or put their loved ones at risk. It took this experience to push me into learning as much as possible about nutrition and medicine...I even worked as a vet tech for the distinct purpose of leaning about the conventional side of things as I was also learning about the holistic side on my own, if for no other reason than to know when more aggressive approaches are necessary, as sometimes they are. In the end, I chose natural over conventional as my general rule-of-thumb...and I have a houseful of happy, healthy animals that let me know I chose the right path .