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Old 01-01-2012, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Buxton, England
7,032 posts, read 8,375,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catsmom21 View Post
I guess you don't read in cat forums very often. Cats go missing every day. Cats come home maimed or poisoned, are found dead, or not found at all, every day. And not just in the USA. Many many more people in the UK are finally beginning to realize that cats are safer and healthier inside. Just as many cat haters over there as their are in the USA. Just as many cars, dogs, other predators, sick people who enjoy torturing cats.

Your cats have been lucky so far. I hope they continue to be.
Many cats kept indoors get bored, restless, obese etc.... I believe they need to be outdoors quite often; ours enjoy being outside and hunting things, and we live in a very safe neighbourhood, and this isn't the only one these cats have lived in. Maybe they have been lucky, but nothing is going to change, they will continue to have the freedom of the outdoors, as they are much better off that way in my experience.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:07 AM
 
5,876 posts, read 11,745,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weatherfan2 View Post
Many cats kept indoors get bored, restless, obese etc.... I believe they need to be outdoors quite often; ours enjoy being outside and hunting things, and we live in a very safe neighbourhood, and this isn't the only one these cats have lived in. Maybe they have been lucky, but nothing is going to change, they will continue to have the freedom of the outdoors, as they are much better off that way in my experience.
Tired old argument. My cats are neither bored or obese. Nor are millions of others.

They are happy, fit, and mentally and physically active right into their late late senior years. I spend the time and effort to keep them that way. Every day.

They don't get fleas, ticks or other parasites, communicable diseases, hit by cars, stolen by dog fighting rings, poisoned, mutilated or tortured by cat haters or eat toxic plants or rodents that have been poisoned.

I know a household that is way back off the road, bordering woods. Their two cats go out. One is morbidly obese and always has been. Going outside has not kept her slim and fit. At 15 she can barely walk she is so fat, and her fur is full of mats and burdock. The other comes home beaten up regularly. Then one time they went away for three days and when they came home found that one half dead on the porch. Seems he was hit by a car. That was six months ago but they are still complaining about the vet bill to have the cat's hip removed (it couldn't be saved) So now the cat is lame. But he still goes out.

They always have fleas, because the humans "forget" to apply the flea preventative. They always have parasites, for the same reason. They lead miserable lives, compared to my safe happy cats.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Buxton, England
7,032 posts, read 8,375,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catsmom21 View Post
Tired old argument. My cats are neither bored or obese. Nor are millions of others.
I really don't care you know, because I have two 14 year old cats who have always enjoyed a largely outdoor existence safely and healthily, and will continue to, I don't have to justify it to you or anybody else; I know OUR cats would be restless and bored kept inside, and I know many others would too. Horror stories of other people's cats getting maimed by cars etc.. won't stop me letting ours outside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catsmom21 View Post
They don't get fleas, ticks or other parasites, communicable diseases, hit by cars, stolen by dog fighting rings, poisoned, mutilated or tortured by cat haters or eat toxic plants or rodents that have been poisoned.
None of this has happened to our cats or any of the other neighbourhood cats who have outside access around here either. A kid could be knocked down by a car, does that mean he should never be allowed outside to play? Most kids are more stupid than my cats when it comes to things like that believe it or not.

It is not natural for these animals to be kept indoors in my opinion so I don't care what you do with your pets, but I'll do with mine what I believe is natural and what they enjoy and that is to be allowed outside.

Last edited by Weatherfan2; 01-01-2012 at 09:22 AM..
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:41 AM
 
5,876 posts, read 11,745,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weatherfan2 View Post
I really don't care you know, because I have two 14 year old cats who have always enjoyed a largely outdoor existence safely and healthily, and will continue to, I don't have to justify it to you or anybody else; I know OUR cats would be restless and bored kept inside, and I know many others would too. Horror stories of other people's cats getting maimed by cars etc.. won't stop me letting ours outside.



None of this has happened to our cats or any of the other neighbourhood cats who have outside access around here either. A kid could be knocked down by a car, does that mean he should never be allowed outside to play? Most kids are more stupid than my cats when it comes to things like that believe it or not.

It is not natural for these animals to be kept indoors in my opinion so I don't care what you do with your pets, but I'll do with mine what I believe is natural and what they enjoy and that is to be allowed outside.
Yes, of course you "don't have to" justify your choices to anyone. And you are entitled to your opinion.

And I will continue to advocate for cats being kept indoors for their safety, health and happiness. I'm only quoting you specifically because you are the one posting.

I am targeting everyone who reads, in the hopes of sparing some cats and their humans heartache, suffering and tragedy.

Not only by way of cars, predators, sickos, etc, but by way of people like the OP, an irate neighbor who, perhaps normally harmless, will cause a cat to disappear because he is annoyed by the cat.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh area
9,918 posts, read 19,683,339 times
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Alright, I was going to avoid adding to this thread because from what I could tell it started as general ranting in some other forum and then was moved here because of the title alone.

But I can't watch a US/UK inside/outside cat argument keep going. From what I've been able to ascertain over the years, the situations are different. While I would generally argue to US folk that they should keep their cats inside (some would still disagree with me), I would not argue that to UK folk. I don't know the stats, but I get the distinct impression the dangers to them outside are fewer there than here.

I could be wrong on that count. But I know from experience that it's useless for you two to keep arguing back and forth from different sides of the pond.

I woud hope we could stay away from generalize arguments about what is "natural", though. I think what is natural for my particular cat who has never been outside in her 15 1/2 year life (yes, starting from birth) is for her to be inside. She does not attempt to go outside or show any longing for the outside. But, what is natural for cats who have been going outside for 14 years is for them to have access to the outside, I'll grant you that.

I actually agree with what catsmom said in her posts, as I often do. It's just that it's an argument we make for the US that doesn't entirely translate to the UK.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:59 AM
 
2,873 posts, read 4,539,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weatherfan2 View Post
Maybe it's just where I live but my cats have lived able to roam free outside like that all their 14 years and nobody has any problem with them crapping in their gardens because we trained them where they do that from a young age as responsible cat owners.

The fact they are up to 14 yrs old and not ever been injured or attacked by anything (we live near a road too) shows that it isn't dangerous at all; this phenomenon of cats mostly being confined indoors seem to be an American thing, here in the UK I don't know of anyone who keeps their cats 100% indoors (unless in an apartment), they are generally regarded more of an outdoor animal.

As a cat owner of 14 yrs I have to say it's ridiculous for anyone to say that letting them have the run of the outdoors is dangerous... give me a break.

Nothing you said here addresses my questions. Why do cats 'need' to run free, but dogs don't?
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:46 PM
 
697 posts, read 2,388,552 times
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I'm sure many dogs would like to roam free but they cannot because they could attack someone and transmit disease. Dog owners are prohibited from doing this by law. I won't say it couldn't happen but it's probably rare for a cat to attack anyone, therefore the laws have been lax on the need to keep them indoors. So it has been left up to the owners' discretion.

If we start to see a sudden surge of attacking cats things would change in a hurry! lol
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Buxton, England
7,032 posts, read 8,375,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat View Post
Nothing you said here addresses my questions. Why do cats 'need' to run free, but dogs don't?
No, your question actually said "why should you be allowed to let your cats roam free".

It's extremely obvious to those who think. My cats go outside without causing any menace or problems to anybody else or their property, because we are responsible cat owners. I already stated as much, so I did infact address your question, and you ignored it.

As for dogs, because of a dogs much more dependent nature, without their owner by their side like when on a walk, most dogs won't want to go out on their own. Their dependence on people means they are always trying to get in people's way. Dogs let to roam free off the lead here in this country always come running after people or menacing the population at large, and unlike cats who kill rodents, dogs let free often worry sheep and cattle, and even kill them, hurting the farming industry. Cats allowed outside, are not responsible for any of this nonsense, generally.
If dogs do get to roam on their own they are far more likely to attack people, especially children, than cats, and be an intrusive menace.
Dogs are much more dependent on humans for their needs than cats, who are far more responsibly behaved when independently roaming.

Last edited by Weatherfan2; 01-01-2012 at 07:12 PM..
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:17 PM
 
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Funny subject. It depends on where you are. In our area cats roam pretty much freely. Nobody picks up after their dog either. With horses around how would you notice. Our dog. Who is mostly tightly constrained for practical reasons...is periodically allowed loose to chase the neighbors cats back to their yard. Our Maine Coon does that duty in the back yard...but the dog loves the chase in the front.

Between my mother and I we have gone through roughly 35 cats over 70 years. Most were outdoor only. Mine where mostly indoor but allowed out. Except we had a feral who lived on our back patio for 15 years. Out of that set we lost two I think whose fate is unknown. We had two to die badly...an automoblie accident and a dog I suspect.

All the rest went to the Rainbow Bridge by the normal route...old age or illness that needed the help of a vet.

Cats are actually pretty good at surviving. If they get enough experience growing up.

I suppose the indoor cat that escapes is in much more trouble. Particular if without a full set of armament. But outside cats do OK.

Got one here beating at my leg. Just annoying me. Would love to go out now into the evening dark. But we don't allow that because he would stay out past our bed time.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:16 PM
 
2,873 posts, read 4,539,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weatherfan2 View Post
No, your question actually said "why should you be allowed to let your cats roam free".

It's extremely obvious to those who think. My cats go outside without causing any menace or problems to anybody else or their property, because we are responsible cat owners. I already stated as much, so I did infact address your question, and you ignored it.

As for dogs, because of a dogs much more dependent nature, without their owner by their side like when on a walk, most dogs won't want to go out on their own. Their dependence on people means they are always trying to get in people's way. Dogs let to roam free off the lead here in this country always come running after people or menacing the population at large, and unlike cats who kill rodents, dogs let free often worry sheep and cattle, and even kill them, hurting the farming industry. Cats allowed outside, are not responsible for any of this nonsense, generally.
If dogs do get to roam on their own they are far more likely to attack people, especially children, than cats, and be an intrusive menace.
Dogs are much more dependent on humans for their needs than cats, who are far more responsibly behaved when independently roaming.
You do realize I'm not the OP and thus not responsible for the subject line, right?

In the past, dogs quite commonly roamed free. They are not more dependent, and most dogs would roam quite happily without their owner. It's actually quite fascinating reading books written in the 1800s/early 1900s that feature dogs- there is never a leash spoken of and no fences.

The real difference is that dogs are more visible. And yes, the damage they cause may be greater.

But you're still not answering the real question. The question isn't why can't dogs roam free. The question is why do cats NEED to roam free for mental or physical health, and dogs don't. The answer- neither of them NEEDS to.

Your (general your) cat crapping in my garden is just as much a nuisance as a dog crapping in the street. And you cannot possibly say your cats don't do this- being that you've chosen not to be responsible for them for a portion of the day, you have absolutely no way of verifying their behavior. And outdoor cats are destructive to wildlife and do spread disease, just as loose dogs do. Not to mention the trauma inflicted when I end up running your poor pet over.

So loose dogs cause waste and so do loose cats. Both can spread disease. Both are dangerous to wildlife. Both can cause various interferences with other people's lives, whether it be hitting them in a car, being attacked, destruction of property, etc.

What's the difference again?

If the big worry is dogs attacking, why not allow all dogs under a certain weight to roam at large? Or, let's just rephrase the question- why are dog owners expected to be responsible and in control of their pets, but cat owners are not?
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