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Old 01-08-2012, 06:24 PM
 
2,873 posts, read 4,495,621 times
Reputation: 4261

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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
As I said he never eats anything that did not come out of a bag.

And I doubt very much they are seriously damaged. Aside from psychological trauma I can't see him doing much damage. The one time I saw him do the act he simply jumped out the window, grabbed the bird with his front paws mostly and fell down landing on his hind legs. Then grabbed the bird with his mouth and brought it in. I inspected the bird pretty carefully and saw no damage. Stuck him up on a tree branch and he was instantly winging over the wall.

I will tell you though that was one pissed off little bird.

Birds are exceptionally frail creatures. It is entirely possible for a bird to die of stress. They can appear fine and die shortly thereafter from shock. They also possess hollow bones, and a cat can easily seriously wound a bird without outright biting it. Just because a bird managed to fly does not mean it was not injured.

Cats also carry a bacteria called Pasterella multocida in their saliva. If the bird sustained even a very small puncture that was invisible under the feathers, it will likely be dead without twenty-four hours. Pasterella multocida is incredibly toxic to birds - which is why pet birds should never come into contact with pet cats. Those cute videos you sometimes see online with a parakeet or love bird climbing all over the long-suffering pet cat? Recipe for disaster.

So yeah, even if a cat doesn't chew on the bird, there's a better than average chance the bird didn't survive the encounter.

To be clear- if you were my neighbor, I wouldn't care if your cat sang love songs to the birds all day and planted flowers. I still don't want YOUR pet in MY yard- anymore than you would want me to come over and install a fish tank in your house, I'm sure, or let my dog loose on your property. Again, your responsibility, not mine.

Also, in the past I had a cat with misdirected aggression. With misdirected aggression, seeing a strange cat walking through the lawn can cause the indoor cat to fly into an aggressive rage. It is one of the most dangerous forms of aggression- I've seen cats misdirect toward humans and put them in the hospital. So there's yet another reason why I don't want someone else's pet walking across my property- not that I really need any reasons other than the yard is my property and the cat is yours.
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:35 PM
 
5,861 posts, read 11,585,241 times
Reputation: 7905
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
As I said he never eats anything that did not come out of a bag.

And I doubt very much they are seriously damaged. Aside from psychological trauma I can't see him doing much damage. The one time I saw him do the act he simply jumped out the window, grabbed the bird with his front paws mostly and fell down landing on his hind legs. Then grabbed the bird with his mouth and brought it in. I inspected the bird pretty carefully and saw no damage. Stuck him up on a tree branch and he was instantly winging over the wall.

I will tell you though that was one pissed off little bird.
I think you don't know very much about birds. See the below post, it explains in better detail what I was trying to convey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat View Post
Birds are exceptionally frail creatures. It is entirely possible for a bird to die of stress. They can appear fine and die shortly thereafter from shock. They also possess hollow bones, and a cat can easily seriously wound a bird without outright biting it. Just because a bird managed to fly does not mean it was not injured.

Cats also carry a bacteria called Pasterella multocida in their saliva. If the bird sustained even a very small puncture that was invisible under the feathers, it will likely be dead without twenty-four hours. Pasterella multocida is incredibly toxic to birds - which is why pet birds should never come into contact with pet cats. Those cute videos you sometimes see online with a parakeet or love bird climbing all over the long-suffering pet cat? Recipe for disaster.

So yeah, even if a cat doesn't chew on the bird, there's a better than average chance the bird didn't survive the encounter.

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Old 01-08-2012, 08:16 PM
 
387 posts, read 268,936 times
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Pass the grain of salt.

Got any real literature. Not bird lover buzz but real vet or wild life specialist stuff?

I am very much of the opinion that cat predation is not a significant factor in the bird population.

I have no direct knowledge of the propensity of birds to die of minor physical stress...but if they do the killer in this house is the windows. We get at least two dozen window strikes every year. We don't often see them...but we see the imprint they leave on the window.

And the three or four that end up indoors when the french doors are open must be suspect as well...

So I guess I don't see any reason to worry about cats if birds are actually that fragile.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:28 PM
 
5,861 posts, read 11,585,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Pass the grain of salt.

Got any real literature. Not bird lover buzz but real vet or wild life specialist stuff?

I am very much of the opinion that cat predation is not a significant factor in the bird population.

I have no direct knowledge of the propensity of birds to die of minor physical stress...but if they do the killer in this house is the windows. We get at least two dozen window strikes every year. We don't often see them...but we see the imprint they leave on the window.

And the three or four that end up indoors when the french doors are open must be suspect as well...

So I guess I don't see any reason to worry about cats if birds are actually that fragile.
Really, was just trying to point out to you that your belief that the birds your cat brings to you are "fine" after you release them, is most likely untrue.

Don't have any opinion really on outdoor cats and song bird predation.

My opinion is that cats should be kept inside for their OWN safety and health, above and beyond any other reason. And irate neighbors threatening to trap and dump cats at the pound (or worse) comes under my definition of a cat's health and safety concern.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:40 PM
 
6,307 posts, read 7,064,146 times
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There is a beautiful long haired orange kitty that belongs to one of my neighbors, that I see everyday when I walk by their place on the way to work. It saddens me deeply to see how this cat has deteriorated over the past couple of months. I can't say for sure if it's because it's let outside, but I can't imagine that it's doing the cat any good.

I have a cat who has never been outside when he's not been in a carrier or in my car, though I grew up with "indoor/outdoor" cats. Before my parents moved, they had a cat who was indoor/outdoor who lived to the age of about 14 or so. In the proper circumstances, I can understand that people let their cats outside, but IMO, there are a lot of times when it's simply a case of "he/she can take care of him/herself". There are so many threats to the cat outside...cars, other animals, psychos who get a thrill torturing the little creatures...the list goes on and on.

With that being said, I would be SO leery of capturing the cat and taking it to the pound because it peed on my porch. Who knows if this kitty has a kid at home who truly loves it and would be devastated if it disappeared? Perhaps a chat with the neighbor would be in order, or a polite note?
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:47 PM
 
2,873 posts, read 4,495,621 times
Reputation: 4261
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Pass the grain of salt.

Got any real literature. Not bird lover buzz but real vet or wild life specialist stuff?

I am very much of the opinion that cat predation is not a significant factor in the bird population.

I have no direct knowledge of the propensity of birds to die of minor physical stress...but if they do the killer in this house is the windows. We get at least two dozen window strikes every year. We don't often see them...but we see the imprint they leave on the window.

And the three or four that end up indoors when the french doors are open must be suspect as well...

So I guess I don't see any reason to worry about cats if birds are actually that fragile.

Here's an abstract from pubmed. [Pasteurella multocida infections in b... [Tijdschr Diergeneeskd. 1980] - PubMed - NCBI

"Infection with Pasteurella multocida caused by bites has been known for several decades. Cats are an important factor in Pasteurella multocida infection. Considerable numbers of victims are 'rescued' from the mouths of cats and submitted to bird reception centres for treatment. A number of bird shelters sent birds in this condition to the present authors for closer examination. The majority of birds caught by cats die. The mortality rates in shelters were reported to be 30, 90, 99 and one hundred per cent. Of the birds rescued alive from the mouths of cats, approximately 40 per cent died from the direct effects of the bites, and approximately 60 per cent died from Pasteurella multocida infection."

This is all very well-known information- I have no idea why you think I'm making it up. Just google pasterella multocida in birds.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:53 PM
 
Location: home...finally, home .
8,168 posts, read 17,911,263 times
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With that being said, I would be SO leery of capturing the cat and taking it to the pound because it peed on my porch. Who knows if this kitty has a kid at home who truly loves it and would be devastated if it disappeared? Perhaps a chat with the neighbor would be in order, or a polite note?
s
That is both kinder and more sensible. Thanks.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:56 PM
 
387 posts, read 268,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishigas73 View Post
There is a beautiful long haired orange kitty that belongs to one of my neighbors, that I see everyday when I walk by their place on the way to work. It saddens me deeply to see how this cat has deteriorated over the past couple of months. I can't say for sure if it's because it's let outside, but I can't imagine that it's doing the cat any good.

I have a cat who has never been outside when he's not been in a carrier or in my car, though I grew up with "indoor/outdoor" cats. Before my parents moved, they had a cat who was indoor/outdoor who lived to the age of about 14 or so. In the proper circumstances, I can understand that people let their cats outside, but IMO, there are a lot of times when it's simply a case of "he/she can take care of him/herself". There are so many threats to the cat outside...cars, other animals, psychos who get a thrill torturing the little creatures...the list goes on and on.

With that being said, I would be SO leery of capturing the cat and taking it to the pound because it peed on my porch. Who knows if this kitty has a kid at home who truly loves it and would be devastated if it disappeared? Perhaps a chat with the neighbor would be in order, or a polite note?
I had a feral on my back patio for 14 years. When she passed she was likely 17 or 18. Aside from during her decline she was always a spiffy and neat cat. Took ten years before my wife was able to touch her.

When a cat starts looking bad it is likely illness.

My big cat however is a Maine Coon. Even with constant attention he starts matting up after 90 days. And I would think in the wild they would be really ugly - one continuos knot.
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:51 AM
 
3,252 posts, read 6,011,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nancy thereader View Post
With that being said, I would be SO leery of capturing the cat and taking it to the pound because it peed on my porch. Who knows if this kitty has a kid at home who truly loves it and would be devastated if it disappeared? Perhaps a chat with the neighbor would be in order, or a polite note?
s
That is both kinder and more sensible. Thanks.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

As I said in a previous post;
1). First offense, notify the neighbor
2). Second offense, notify the neighbor
3). Third offense, off to the humane society.

The issue tends to be with the (lack of responsibility/respect) of the owner, not the cat.

So if there is a kid at home that truly loves the cat, if should be explained to him/her that "mommy and daddy did not be responsible or show any respect for the neighbors with the little kitty, and that is why it is gone".
Geez.

Peeing on the porch is one thing. Killing the wild birds I attract (I go through $50 of bird seed a month), is another. I understand it is in a cat's nature to kill things, but that will NOT be allowed on my property (which I paid a pretty penny for, and can set the rules here) , and you cat is NOT welcome on my property. (Unless I can come on your property and start killing things with a 12 gauge, and have you be fine with it.)
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:10 PM
 
2,401 posts, read 3,776,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
You have many types of critters on your land, like it or not. They were there before you and will be there after you and some will just pass through now and again. It's nature and you can't fight it. Why would you even want to? That's sort of the point of having acres of land is it not? If not, go live in a highrise.

I've had both indoor only and outside cats. I'd keep them in if the area was dangerous to them but my suburban neighborhood is full of fun cats that don't harm anything. Occasional cat poo it not a disaster people.
Well, living in the rural area where there are many critters on my land (you are right) and yes, I agree that they are here before me. It is nature... and you are right also... BUT

As to "fighting it" it is not so much as fighting it.
It is more like having the "right" to do what the owner of the property wants.
Like... eg. hunting & killing the critter for a tasty squirrel fried rice or a warm rabbit stew... or a nice wild turkey for thanks giving.

You see... actually living in the rural one have also have to accept territorial rights of the critter before you & your pet cat.. be it the danger of the wild bear, owls, eagles etc...

You as the pet owner have also have to respect the territorial rights of that land owner... even when brought up to court, it is still indisputably the land owners rights against a trespasser.

If you "loved you pet so much" as to allow you pet in harms way into "unknown" (hospitable/inhospitable) surrounding... then you don't really actually care for you pet but love the laziness it provides you to not have to pick up one more kitty poo & the selfishness of not sacrificing your own furniture but allow your cat to kill someone else's property (like outdoor wicker set, like digging out someone else's potted plants).

If your cat can hunt those someone else's critters on someone else's land... what makes you think that landowner cannot legally hunt your cat and called it a crossfire mistake when they are hunting critters on their land???

After all, it is very natural too that there is that chance that these free-roaming cats do get into man-made dangers like being caught in hunter's traps, getting hurt by run-away bullets, getting even run over by Off-road vehicles etc.

And how caring is a pet owner when knowing these hostile conditions will allow their pets into a "hostile" neighbour's yard???

If I know that my cat will get injury from a hostile neighbour / neighbourhood, there is a hell NOWAY I would allow my kitty outside even if she begs me to death. I'd built a cattery outside first before letting her run lose KNOWING the "possible" guaranteed danger.

It is not about "errr... its only a kitty poo" or even about that "wicker set" argument. Nor even about the "freedom" of your pet.

Seriously it is about that "pet owner" if he/she is consciously putting that pet (that pet who does not know the hostile condition) in harms way for what??? Just to prove the point that it is only kitty "poo"???

I am not nay saying a no to outdoor's kitty also...

IF you have that big of a land that is bigger than your kitty's wander lust, if you can control the environment where your kitty wanders (have fences, know there is no hunting on your grounds or dangerous equipment), if your neighbour hood is "friendly" to kitties (small roads where there is not much cars etc.) filled with neighbours who would love your kitty as much as you should do can cat sit & such (then you are very very lucky) etc... by all means go for letting kitty wander to their hearts content.

If you loved that cat as would your own child... you'd baby proof that cat's environment won't you???

Keep your beloved pet in a "controlled" environment that can be controlled by you.
You are the pet owner and pet ownership means responsibility for that pet who cannot read those many man-made signs like you do... like if wandered out to highway 66 = certain death at how ever many high % rate for cats or "keep out" & "danger" signs that will state high voltage or gun range.

It is really about how much do you really really love your kitty.
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