If you are feeding Purina / Ralston ANYTHING... (feline, puking, food)

[Gummifuzz]

Originally Posted by AnonChick

However, when you're done feeding your cat all that wonderful nutritious raw diet with taurine added and no artificial anything....your cat STILL might come down with an illness and die a miserable, painful, long death. And then who are you going to blame?

An excellent thought. Myself I suppose - but I wouldn't feel too bad about it because I did the best I knew how for them.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by latetotheparty

every single time i read through these food or diet threads, i just have to wonder how the cats we had when i was growing up in the 60's, 70's and 80's lived well into their mid to late teens... and one to age 21 .... while fed a diet of tender vittles and other such food now deemed crap.....

i'm not saying there are NOT better quality and lesser quality foods.... this is just an honest question that occurs to me with some regularity......

Genes, bloodlines, etc. Some cats inherit a better predisposition to live longer than others. That would be my guess.

Obviously feeding xyz food (better, raw, homemade, whatever) isn't a guarantee of anything, nor does feeding the worst stuff guarantee they'll live a shortened life ending in disease or whatever. No different than humans, really. And yet we try to make some effort with food thinking it might have some effect, so it's reasonable to think we could make some effort to have our pets eat something more appropriate. I think that is what is at the heart of going towards different foods. What drives it to food made at home is the possibility of problems with the large-scale commercial production. Although, if one does not choose the meat carefully, one would still have that potential from the homemade food because human meat is processed also on a very large scale with potential for serious problems.

A lot of pet food marketing is psychological appealing to the human with less (sometimes much less) regard to how it actually helps the pet. There are a lot of possible issues with commercial food. Thus far, I personally have not stopped feeding it though.

[latetotheparty]

Originally Posted by AnonChick

The argument against it is:

Yes, they all lived to be 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 years old, but they were unhappy the WHOLE TIME! Even though they were active, even though their yearly checkups showed no problems with their bloodwork, coat, eyes, teeth...

Even though they loved to play and chased feathers on strings, even though they showed absolutely no sign whatsoever of any trauma, injury, or infirmity...

they were -obviously- unhappy, and miserable, and in pain, their entire lives, all because they were fed stuff that has been fed to cats for decades. All of them.

/sarcasm

Honestly though, cats, who are known to have weak livers, will do -better- on a non-grain diet, than on a grain diet. They will do -better- on a higher quality food, than a lower quality food. They will do -better- on wet food, than on dry food + reliance on a low thirst drive to drink water.

However, when you're done feeding your cat all that wonderful nutritious raw diet with taurine added and no artificial anything....your cat STILL might come down with an illness and die a miserable, painful, long death. And then who are you going to blame?

i actually did go through something similar just last summer...... Please pray for Max

i adopted Charlie and Max as kittens when I bought my house in November, 2004. At 3 months old, Max came to me with an icky tummy and for his entire life had an icky tummy.... constant diarrhea, frequent vomiting.... i spent HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS of dollars at vets offices on him and the best we could come up with was kitty IBD.... he ate only the high quality, grain-free canned food, i tried different brands, different proteins, different anything else i could thnk of....

but in spite of all that, he was a pretty happy fella for most of his life and one of the most loving and affectionate kitties i have had the pleasure of having in my life.... until one morning he woke up in terrible terrible pain with bloody diarrhea..... i got him to his vet's office as soon as the vet could meet us there and the diagnosis this time was gastrointestinal lymphoma.... and that his little body was already shutting down.... we helped him to the bridge right then.... he went to sleep with his head resting in my hand and my voice in his ear.....

his vet said that he was probably born with the intestinal disorder(s) and the fact that he lived the nearly 7 years that he did was a testament to my care of and for him.....

like people, some kitties are just not as healthy as others....

[HOF4256]

Originally Posted by latetotheparty

every single time i read through these food or diet threads, i just have to wonder how the cats had when i was growing up in the 60's, 70's and 80's lived well into their mid to late teens... and one to age 21 .... while fed a diet of tender vittles and other such food now deemed crap.....

i'm not saying there are NOT better quality and lesser quality foods.... this is just an honest question that occurs to me with some regularity......

Same here (bolded).
And our dogs ate Alpo, some would only eat Mighty Dog. They lived well into their late teens, never had to see our Vet.

Our cat ate the same canned food all her life -- she was well over 20.

It wasn't until the '90s that our younger dogs began to suffer the same ailments; needed many vet visits, and died much, much younger while the Senior dogs we'd had since the '80s went on their own, natural terms in 94 & 95. They NEVER had to see the Vet and those two refused to eat anything but people food and canned, while the younger 4 gobbled their kibble.

Logical explanation - It's no secret anymore that sources of ingredients then, compared to now, are like night and day. Anyone who is naive enough to believe that the same ingredients are being used today as since those days is really in a fog....(one only has to look at what they're doing to HUMAN food for a clue -- google "Pink Slime" for starters...)

[catsmom21]

Originally Posted by HOF4256

Same here (bolded).
And our dogs ate Alpo, some would only eat Mighty Dog. They lived well into their late teens, never had to see our Vet.

Our cat ate the same canned food all her life -- she was well over 20.

It wasn't until the '90s that our younger dogs began to suffer the same ailments; needed many vet visits, and died much, much younger while the Senior dogs we'd had since the '80s went on their own, natural terms in 94 & 95. They NEVER had to see the Vet and those two refused to eat anything but people food and canned, while the younger 4 gobbled their kibble.

Logical explanation - It's no secret anymore that sources of ingredients then, compared to now, are like night and day. Anyone who is naive enough to believe that the same ingredients are being used today as since those days is really in a fog....(one only has to look at what they're doing to HUMAN food for a clue -- google "Pink Slime" for starters...)

My thoughts, exactly. PFI has found more and more ways to make a profit as the years go on, and not to our pets' benefits.

As I have stated, in this thread and many other times, as I gradually improved my cats' diets, I was truly amazed at the differences I began to see. I thought my cats were thriving, and then I went to canned food only, in 1985. That was an eye opener, but boy, they REALLY started to thrive once I stopped feeding them foods full of dyes, artificial junk, and so on. And when I eliminated the grains..and then the fruits and vegetables....amazing.

And also, people have ...faulty memories..... when they remember how long childhood family pets lived. I did it myself. I remember my childhood cats living until they were "at least twenty". In actual fact, they died within 2 months of each other, when I was 24. Which means THEY were not quite 15, since I was ten when we adopted them as kittens.

When I was a kid they ate Puss-n-Boots canned food in the big cans, because it was cheap and we were poor, and, when Meow Mix started the kibble craze, we gave them that too. <shudder> I don't know what my mother was feeding them, as they aged, I didn't take them from their home when I grew up and left home, But I can remember digging the cold Puss-n-Boots out of the green can from the fridge and sprinkling Meow Mix on top to encourage them to eat it. They both died of kidney failure, like I said, within 2 months of each other. That was in 1984 long before such things as home sub q treatments. But I really had to think about it, because in my memory, I thought they were 20 years old.

[latetotheparty]

i have very clear memories of how long these and other pets lived.... i am not mistaken....

[subject2change]

The dog I grew up with lived to 16 on Gainesburgers. But until HOF brought it up, I never stopped to think that these foods might have been somewhat better quality in the old days. Cost-cutting has done a number on prepared foods for humans (high fructose corn syrup anyone?). I wouldn't doubt they use cheaper ingredients in mainstream pets foods, even though people worry more about their pets health than they did decades ago. Of course, who has a forty year old bag to compare the ingredients.

[MissNM]

Originally Posted by latetotheparty

like people, some kitties are just not as healthy as others....

Some 100 year old humans credit their long life to whiskey, red meat, and cigarettes!

I recommend we take care of ourselves and our pets as best we can, don't live in fear of the what-ifs, and live every day to the fullest. I'd rather live a shorter joyous life than lock myself away from all the potential threats of the world.

[HOF4256]

Originally Posted by subject2change

... I never stopped to think that these foods might have been somewhat better quality in the old days. Cost-cutting has done a number on prepared foods for humans (high fructose corn syrup anyone?). I wouldn't doubt they use cheaper ingredients in mainstream pets foods, even though people worry more about their pets health than they did decades ago. Of course, who has a forty year old bag to compare the ingredients.

Good point. Check this out -- this sums things up, IMO.

"Ten years ago, the rejected fat, sinew, bloody effluvia, and occasional bits of meat cut from carcasses in the slaughterhouse were a low-value waste product called 'trimmings' that were sold primarily as pet food. No more. Now, Beef Products Inc. of South Dakota transforms trimmings into something they call 'boneless lean beef.' In huge factories, the company liquefies the trimmings and uses a spinning centrifuge to separate the sinews and fats from the meat, leaving a mash that has been described as 'pink slime,' which is then frozen into small squares and sold as a low-cost additive to hamburger."

TLC Cooking "Pink Slime and Ammonia: Two Main Ingredients in Some Ground Beef"

Originally Posted by MissNM

...

I recommend we take care of ourselves and our pets as best we can, don't live in fear of the what-ifs, and live every day to the fullest. I'd rather live a shorter joyous life than lock myself away from all the potential threats of the world.

Being informed and paranoid, 2 entirely different things, IMO.

Pet food should be no different than purchasing any other product. ALL mainstream, most recognised and heaviest-advertised products, we are finding, are slipping in quality. Should we keep just patronizing these brands-businesses because they choose to "thrive" on their names and advertising power alone? ("Made in China" )

If several co-workers tell us that a restaurant has horrible food, and 3 got sick after eating there, are we going to choose another restaurant, or continue to defend that one because we have been conditioned to like the "name" of it for many years -- despite how low their standards have slipped?

Proof is right on the ingredient labels. Can't see how there can even be a debate when carnivores are the subject at hand….

[=^..^=]

Originally Posted by HOF4256

Logical explanation - It's no secret anymore that sources of ingredients then, compared to now, are like night and day. Anyone who is naive enough to believe that the same ingredients are being used today as since those days is really in a fog....(one only has to look at what they're doing to HUMAN food for a clue -- google "Pink Slime" for starters...)

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!! You got that right kiddo.