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Patricat wrote: Have you tried Rescue Remedy? this is supposedly also good for terror
situations.
yeah, I tried that last year when I brought her and William home from my office. Didn't do a thing, and they wouldn't drink the water. I probably didn't do it for a month - since I noticed the water level wasn't changing particularly. I can see about doing this for a while. Hopefully it will kick in sooner than 3 weeks...
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=^..^= wrote:I has to be horrible for her to live in constant fear and dread of being attacked. Wouldn't it be for you?
absolutely! that's why we moved her into the back room. It had gotten so bad that even *I* couldn't pick her up without her doing the 4-paws of death grip and she was trying to drink water form the cup DH was watering the plant with (one of her safe places, and where she ate was behind this big plant). She's much more back to normal, no problem picking her up - I do all the time. and she gets along fine with the other 3 boys (who also get along fine with Canute).
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you may want to think about re-homing her where she will be the only cat. Where she can live in peace and comfort instead of fear and dread
Yeah, I know: but re-homing just isn't on the table. She is not living in constant fear and dread now, mostly just a lot of boredom. That's why I go back there as much as I can, I let the other 3 in and out constantly when I'm home.. but she doesn't have a lot of floor space in there (it's a store room), there is a window though she doesn't look out it much. She just doesn't like transitions and Canute exploits it. He doesn't bully anyone else, she just acts like a mouse. And that's not going to change anywhere else, it took her a while - though not this long- to relax at my office with William. I knew moving her was going to be the hardest, but that doesn't mean I'm going to kick her out. I just hope this works!
absolutely! that's why we moved her into the back room. It had gotten so bad that even *I* couldn't pick her up without her doing the 4-paws of death grip and she was trying to drink water form the cup DH was watering the plant with (one of her safe places, and where she ate was behind this big plant). She's much more back to normal, no problem picking her up - I do all the time. and she gets along fine with the other 3 boys (who also get along fine with Canute). Yeah, I know: but re-homing just isn't on the table. She is not living in constant fear and dread now, mostly just a lot of boredom. That's why I go back there as much as I can, I let the other 3 in and out constantly when I'm home.. but she doesn't have a lot of floor space in there (it's a store room), there is a window though she doesn't look out it much. She just doesn't like transitions and Canute exploits it. He doesn't bully anyone else, she just acts like a mouse. And that's not going to change anywhere else, it took her a while - though not this long- to relax at my office with William. I knew moving her was going to be the hardest, but that doesn't mean I'm going to kick her out. I just hope this works!
Do you think you are perhaps focusing on the wrong cat?
Two things came to mind reading your replies. You mentioned that you reward her when Canute is around, but that he only comes back rarely. So perhaps part of the issue is that the reintroduction is actually too slow. If she's only rarely being rewarded, she won't retain the association that Canute = good things.
I would start taking him in with her daily for short periods. Just a minute or two at first, then gradually increasing it a minute or so each day. With plenty of rewards for them both. If she reacts badly (and seems very scared), I would start off with Canute in a carrier. But again I would be doing it everyday or even several times a day for short periods.
I would also work on modifying Canute's behavior. Watch his body language very closely, and at the first sign of any trouble I would swoop in and carry him off. Then I would leave him by himself for a time. You want the message to be that torturing her results in Canute losing all attention. If she isn't afraid of loud noises, I would shake a penny can or spray him with water when he starts as well.
I know of a family who took in an abused 8 y.o. kitty....she was extremely fearful of the humans and also the 3 other cats that shared the home...they gave her one of the rooms as her own, with her food and litter box, they would visit often but never try to force her to come to them...would just sit and chat with her. the other cats were barred from this room.
It took them a whole year to gain her confidence...to where she would come and sit on a knee when they visited....than she began to venture a few feet out of her safe spot but would run back at the sign of an intruder..this became a little further every day/week/month...yup took almost 2 years before she was confident enough to stray completely out of her safety zone and become a part of the family of people and cats without fear...
This takes an enormous amount of patience on your part, to gain her trust but it is possible -)
yeah, I know. I'm skeptical as well on homeopathic stuff., but she doesn't know much either way
I've had her separated for about 3 months now! well, separated from Canute - the others do go back all the time for visiting. On rare occasions Canute comes in and I use the opportunity to give Hannah bits of dried salmon (and Canute for behaving well and not attacking her). But it isn't making any difference. She wants out of the back room, Canute will still beat her up given a chance, and so she doesn't trust him and hides. and the more she acts like a mouse, the more Canute treats her like one - even on 10mg of prozac!
I've got to do something to build up Hannah's confidence. I can't let her go back to running for her life from safe spot to safe spot being too terrified to even drink water. That's why I'm trying the flower essences. I mean, 3 months: how much slower re-introducing can I do?!
You say she's good with the other cats, just not with Carnute. That doesn't sound like a confidence problem at all. It sounds more like - she just plain doesn't LIKE Carnute, and Carnute just plain doesn't LIKE Hannah. Some animals just don't like each other. There's nothing you can do to change it. But they -might- be feeding off of -your- anxiety about it. Maybe when you learn to relax and accept that the two don't like each other, they'll learn to relax and be more tolerant of each others' presence.
<sigh> Canute doesn't like her because she acts like a mouse - so he treats her like one. He's kinda turned it into a game - but it's not one she wants to play. I merged the cats a year ago July.. at first I tried to let them sort things out and figure out how to co-exist. I knew she had some safe spots (although Canute would lie there and watch beside one of them - just like watching a mouse hole - unfortunately one of the others was a window seat that many of the other cats, esp Canute liked and she wasn't sharing) and trusted they would come to some sort of arrangement. Went on for quite a while before I decided that she was getting worse and I had to step in to save her. Every time I think he's finally calmed down and I try to let them spend some supervised time together... he jumps her. That's why she doesn't trust him - she's had lots of reasons not to. Believe me, with all the stress I have going on in my life (husband has stage IV cancer, I'm closing my businesses in 4 months and we move out of state in 7 months), if I could just let them not like each other.. I would! It got too bad for that.
She's always been somewhat of a scaredy cat. She was originally rescued from a drug-house that was extremely abusive to the cats in residence (I won't go into the heinous things they did - although we don't know they did any thing to her specifically), so it takes her a little while to get used to new situations. She did fine, eventually at my office -but she was getting too anxious watching me pack up everything. And since I might have to close my office with 2 weeks notice at any time, they had to come home. Occasionally something odd happens and she hides from Henry and/or from Magnus, but not often, and she lets Magnus lick her head. But she wont' cross a threshhold to come out of her room, and she gets very nervous that Canute might be around. So she hides and moves like a mouse (outside of her room). She'll fight him if she has to, but she'd much prefer to run away and hide. and yes, a sudden noise like a shake-can will send her running (and if any others are around, esp Magnus, they'll run too).
Canute doesn't care about water - he's a Wegie with a very thick coat. and he's very fast. I do usually only let him in for a couple of minutes. But if he starts moving towards her, I have to take him out. He doesn't like that he's not allowed time in that room but the other boys are, so he already feels left out. A couple of times today I held her in the doorway so she could see him at the end of the hall, and see that he didn't care about her-as he washed his leg.
Actually, when I'm giving the salmon, I give teeny bits of it to both of them - her for not bolting and coping with him there, and him for being calm and not jumping her.
I could try putting him in a carrier, but not many times a day - he's difficult to get in there. Although... there is a very large carrier in the room, I could put him in there and close the door to it. letting him be in the room and she has to deal with him in there - but he can't get to her. Do you think that would work??
Okj, I"m trying something Parallel kinda suggested - using a carrier. I have a med-sized dog carrier that lives in that room. It's big enough for 2 cats, even for a shelf if I ever made one. Canute is not easy to get into his regular carrier, but this is quite large, so it's easy. So, I"ve put him in there, facing the end of the room Hannah spends most time in, he can see the door through the side holes. He can see that she's not hiding, she's not scared and hiding with him in the cage! wow, will this work?? they can see, smell & are forced to be in proximity - safely!!!! huh. we'll see. Interesting idea. I can probably do this a bit in the morning before work - when all the other boys like to go in after breakfast - and in the evening (if I'm home).
update: wow! it's nearly 1/2 hour later, and they are both fine in there. She's still not hiding, for a while she came a little closer. He's not acting out or banging on the door. Actually, I was going to bring him back out a while ago, but he doesn't feel like leaving the carrier! so.. if he's happy in there, and she's ok.... I'll let them stay. They're facing each other, pretty much. The door to the room is open, so the other cats can come and go if they want - I know she won't. fascinating (mind you, I also gave her a dose of flower essence when I brought him in.. just in case it does help)
Last edited by GotBackHome; 05-20-2012 at 06:38 PM..
I have a friend with a big maine coon (mix) kitty who was going into sudden rages and ripping her apart. She keeps feliway going at all times, and that does help as he is worse if she lets it run out. I kept urging her to try the Rescue Remedy She was reluctant because someone told her once that it would make him 'dopey'. She also said he is picky and she was afraid he wouldn't drink his water if she put smething in it. I kept nagging about it assuring her he would not be dopey, and that she doesn't have to put it in his water, she can rub it on his face (along the lips/jaw) and ears (the bald spots and the upper part of the ear) and finally she got some, and she is thrilled with the results.
She doesn't feed it to him or put it in his water. She rubs it on his face and ears. She started with using it daily. Then she dropped it to every other day. He was still okay. She went to skipping two days. Still good. She went to skipping three days...he attacked her. So back to every two days.
Of course, nothing works for every cat. I would want to try as many things as possible too, were I in your situation.
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Originally Posted by WannaComeHome
Okj, I"m trying something Parallel kinda suggested - using a carrier. I have a med-sized dog carrier that lives in that room. It's big enough for 2 cats, even for a shelf if I ever made one. Canute is not easy to get into his regular carrier, but this is quite large, so it's easy. So, I"ve put him in there, facing the end of the room Hannah spends most time in, he can see the door through the side holes. He can see that she's not hiding, she's not scared and hiding with him in the cage! wow, will this work?? they can see, smell & are forced to be in proximity - safely!!!! huh. we'll see. Interesting idea. I can probably do this a bit in the morning before work - when all the other boys like to go in after breakfast - and in the evening (if I'm home).
update: wow! it's nearly 1/2 hour later, and they are both fine in there. She's still not hiding, for a while she came a little closer. He's not acting out or banging on the door. Actually, I was going to bring him back out a while ago, but he doesn't feel like leaving the carrier! so.. if he's happy in there, and she's ok.... I'll let them stay. They're facing each other, pretty much. The door to the room is open, so the other cats can come and go if they want - I know she won't. fascinating (mind you, I also gave her a dose of flower essence when I brought him in.. just in case it does help)
Is there something scared Hannah? When did you find her different from herself?
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