Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I've read more bad than good about those emery boards. Including safety issues. But let us know how it goes if you try one.
Wait...isn't the emery board just a cardboard scratcher? That's what it looks like...what safety issues do you mean? My cats love their cardboard scratcher.
I am the author of that 'article'. This is what I did, for my unsocialized cat, who sent me to the ER with bites twice, in the early days of me trying to get her to allow me to touch her paws.
It doesn't have to be in your lap. It can be however you want it to be. The point is, it is something you do every single day. You can't expect immediate progress. It may take years. But you have years with him. You know there is no such thing as a quick fix, when working with cats. I know you know that. You need to take it one day at a time.
I would have to see if my husband will go along with this every day. He's usually the one to get injured since he's not an experienced cat handler. It's frustrating as he just can't get the knack of scruffing Zeb' and doing the leg-tail hold and laying him on is side. This was the way to protect the vet and yourself as I learned in the Animal Hosp long ago. It's the safest way but takes two hands.
Quote:
Decide, first, how you are going to position him for nail trimmings. Whether it is on your lap or in the holding position (with you on your knees feet crossed behind you, him sitting between your knees facing out), up on a table, set in a cardboard box, whatever. Try different ways, and see which one he hates the least.
I can only use the table since we both have arthritis. Sitting on the floor is out. He fights and struggles so much I'm afraid my husband is going to hurt him by trying to restrain him.
Quote:
Then you start the training. Just start as slow as he needs. If at first, all you can do is pick him up and put him on the table, then release him, or kneel with him for a moment, then release him, or whatever, do that. Do that every day. Gradually, over time, and it may take days weeks or months, he will come to accept this thing you do, and then you can hold him a little longer. Eventually you will hold him long enough to touch a paw. It may take more weeks, just touching a paw, before you get to the point where you can actually hold the paw, then express the claws.
What do we do in the meantime? In the months it may take before he submits? OTOH he may get even worse from the forced handing. My husband got a serious deep scratch the other night just trying to just get him on the table.
Quote:
Doesn't like treats? Well he eats, doesn't he? So he likes something. Using something you can smear on his mouth that he can lick off, is best, but if you need to just use his canned food, use that. Try butter, yogurt, mayonaise, cream cheese, even vegetable or olive oil. Smear a bit, one by one on his mouth (not all at once, of course, try one one day, try another another day) and see how he reacts. Does he lick his chops, then look around for more? Have a little more ready, just in case. You'll find out what he likes, this way. You only need a small bit, less than half a pea sized, for the start and the finish of the training, at this point.
All he likes is kibble. He eats the canned food because he's forced to. But he wont eat anything handed to him. It has to be in one of the bowls. I can try some of these things but have no idea how to get safely to his mouth when he's in panic mode and struggling to escape. I saw the damage BoiKatt did to my husband's hand and Boykatt wasn't even in that mode. An angry fighting cat can so some serious damage.
Quote:
Like I said, it took my girl three years to allow me to even snip one claw. I didn't hold her in my lap in those days either. I started with her in the holding position. Then, when I took her to the groomer, I draped her over my arm, and she seemed to like that better, so I started setting her up on the table and draping her over my forearm. It took a few more years after the first snip before she allowed me to hold her in my lap.
That's a totally different cat if you restrained her yourself without scruffing and doing the tail-leg hold. What other holding position restrains a struggling kicking scratching screaming almost hysterical cat that uses one hand while you touch her paw with the other hand? Instead of getting more used to claw-clipping, he's gotten worse over time. I know my cat. As soon as we start this every day, and he hates being picked up to start with, he will no longer be around. He has hiding spots all over the house and most can't be blocked off. And he's hard to catch. We go through the "catch Zeb" every time we go camping or traveling. And he knows. We can't fool him. We're not young anymore and chasing a cat and trying to drag it out from under a bed or the desk or sofa or recliner.... well, let's just say it's bad news.
Quote:
You don't have anything to lose, to try it this way. The key is consistency, and positive reinforcement. Just do it every day. At first, just put him how you want him then release him. If you do it often enough he will begin to learn, in time that nothing bad is happening. And if he'll accept something yummy, there is positive reinforcement too.
Ya know, I took my vets advice when we got him as a kitten. She said to pick him up every day, pet him for a moment or two, and put him down again. She assured me it would work. I did that. And soon he avoided me like the plague unless I was in bed reading. He "meat loafed" on my stomach from day one. Soon I was unable to touch him at all outside the bedroom as he learned to avoid being picked up. Now, he lets me pet him with one hand only. As soon as he sees the second hand approach him, he vanishes. We can't pick him up with one hand. He's too large and heavy. I cringe to think we'll have to chase him all over the house every day and have to go through the fighting with him when caught. I'll be needing sedation..... ... honestly. I don't know if I can deal with the chasing him and dragging him out and the fighting he puts up. We're not talking about a cat we can just walk over too and pick up.
When being forcibly restrained and fighting us to escape, I doubt he'll even notice anything wiped on his lips. I can try butter but I don't think he'll connect it to being picked up when he calms down whether he likes butter or not. I've had many cats over my lifetime including the ones I fostered in the past. I've never had one like this before. If we were rich (believe me, we budget to live our retirement dreams of camping and snow-birding) I would try and find one of those cat behaviorists, but from what I understand, they're as expensive as a psychiatrist for people/children.
Wait...isn't the emery board just a cardboard scratcher? That's what it looks like...what safety issues do you mean? My cats love their cardboard scratcher.
Zeb only uses the wall to wall carpeting and the carpeting on his favorite cat-tree. His claws grow abnormally fast. He can't keep them to a normal length himself. The emery board scratchers have sand glued to them. None of my cats would use the one I had, so I gave it to a friend who does some rescue work. Phaedra will use the plain cardboard ones and the rope type scratchers. Zephyr will not. She uses the carpeted cat trees only. Each cat his their own preference.
have youtried a dremmel type tool instead of ail clippers at any point...still got the same issue if its a general "dont touch my paws" issue....but ive found some "fast crowers" als have overly sensitive nails and the shere pressure of clippers actually hurts them hence the foot shyness...these cats often improve with the use of a dremmel as theres no "pinching" pressure thats associated with the regula scissor/guilatein styles...
My husband has a dremmel tool. I can tell you now, if he panics at the sight of a nail clipper, what do you think he'd do at the sight and sound of the humming dremmel tool? And that's besides his fighting being held or restrained? It may well be his nails are overly sensitive. But he doesn't react like there is pain when they're clipped. I don't understand why this cat make such a big deal of the whole thing.
Quote:
otherwise in thinking given his temperment it might be worth getting a "mild" powdered sedative andslipping it into his meal once a month and doing his claws while hes half high...
id also be sure to firmly wrap him in a towel when scruffing so you can acess one paw at a time but help keep the other weapons nuder wraps for saftey.
We already tried the towel thing and it made him more hysterical. We used his own favorite blanket thinking it may help... it didn't. Trust me on this, we have tried everything we can think of over the few years we've had him. What I need here is someone who can safely restrain him while I trim his claws, or someone with excellent vision and steady hands to clip while I restrain him. I have neither.
Quote:
some cats NEVER become accustomed to it unfortunatly, i still wouldnt declaw...but a sedative may be your best option .
I dread that since he eats little canned food and they all switch bowls. Each seems to think the food in the the other bowl is better. Getting the correct dose into him would be difficult. Pilling him would have to be a real nightmare without an experienced person to scruff him. I pray he never gets sick. I'll say it again... I've had a lot of cats go through my life, none were anything like this cat.
When we're snow-birding the cats love to go outside to the Gander Mountain screen room set up as a cat heaven since the RV is so much smaller than our home. The girls lift their little paws to be picked up and carried out to it. Zeb refuses to be picked up but longs to go out there also. It took two months to show him he can go into his carrier and be carried out to it. He finally learned to get into the carrier as soon as we held it to the RV door. We'd close the carrier and move him to the screen room. Then he had to be taught to reverse of that in the evening. When it was time to come in the RV, he'd cry by the door of the screen room but refuse to be picked up.... we had to chase him all over, catch him and put him in the carrier and carry him back to the RV that way. It took him 2 months for him to learn this!!!
I empathize with stress you're going through (Meeko) How about trying those emery board cat scratchers. AS SEEN ON TV !!!! They sell them at the Petco near me, so I assume they would have them nation wide.
They're just cardboard with sand glued to them. None my cats would use it. I gave it away after a few months. The stress is getting to me. Every month we go through this with no sigh of improvement. In fact it's getting worse these past few months. But it must be done as he's caught his claws in carpeting and on his cat-tree. Thank God we were home to free him. He could not get himself loose and was crying. They can rip out a claw the vet said, and bleed to death. So it's something we must do. If they didn't grow abnormally long and curved we would leave him be because he doesn't do any damage to the house. And he doesn't purposely scratch us, it just happens when we're trying to restrain him.
Quote:
I've been thinking about trying this since I Have to keep Meekos claws trimmed, and now with Olivia, who has claws like talons that catch on everything she scratches (to show her unhappiness over whatever is not up to standards at any given moment, which also changes hourly) I'm gonna try two or five, placed all over the house.
I have to take both of them to get their nails trimmed every 3 1/2 weeks, so even if this doesn't work 100% it will probably allow me to defer their nail trims another week or so.
They may not use them. My cats didn't use the one I had, maybe because the sand irritated their toe pads. And for it to wear down their claws, the cats would have to be using them for hours at a time. Start with one and see if it works for your cats.
Buyer beware on the emery cat...I was just looking at them (I guess they have two inserts, one with sand and one with cardboard) and it looks like the business has scammed a lot of people. Stuff like not sending the product out or overcharging in the ordering process and refusing to cancel the order. If you want to try it, buy it in a store.
I did actually buy one once (with the cardboard) and had to return it immediately because it had a very strong unpleasant plastic order.
To OP...maybe a chunk of tree branch nailed to a sturdy platform? Hard wood is great for wearing down nails. Some cats go nuts for it, some aren't interested, but it's cheap to try
I would have to see if my husband will go along with this every day. He's usually the one to get injured since he's not an experienced cat handler. It's frustrating as he just can't get the knack of scruffing Zeb' and doing the leg-tail hold and laying him on is side. This was the way to protect the vet and yourself as I learned in the Animal Hosp long ago. It's the safest way but takes two hands.
I can only use the table since we both have arthritis. Sitting on the floor is out. He fights and struggles so much I'm afraid my husband is going to hurt him by trying to restrain him.
What do we do in the meantime? In the months it may take before he submits? OTOH he may get even worse from the forced handing. My husband got a serious deep scratch the other night just trying to just get him on the table.
All he likes is kibble. He eats the canned food because he's forced to. But he wont eat anything handed to him. It has to be in one of the bowls. I can try some of these things but have no idea how to get safely to his mouth when he's in panic mode and struggling to escape. I saw the damage BoiKatt did to my husband's hand and Boykatt wasn't even in that mode. An angry fighting cat can so some serious damage.
That's a totally different cat if you restrained her yourself without scruffing and doing the tail-leg hold. What other holding position restrains a struggling kicking scratching screaming almost hysterical cat that uses one hand while you touch her paw with the other hand? Instead of getting more used to claw-clipping, he's gotten worse over time. I know my cat. As soon as we start this every day, and he hates being picked up to start with, he will no longer be around. He has hiding spots all over the house and most can't be blocked off. And he's hard to catch. We go through the "catch Zeb" every time we go camping or traveling. And he knows. We can't fool him. We're not young anymore and chasing a cat and trying to drag it out from under a bed or the desk or sofa or recliner.... well, let's just say it's bad news.
Ya know, I took my vets advice when we got him as a kitten. She said to pick him up every day, pet him for a moment or two, and put him down again. She assured me it would work. I did that. And soon he avoided me like the plague unless I was in bed reading. He "meat loafed" on my stomach from day one. Soon I was unable to touch him at all outside the bedroom as he learned to avoid being picked up. Now, he lets me pet him with one hand only. As soon as he sees the second hand approach him, he vanishes. We can't pick him up with one hand. He's too large and heavy. I cringe to think we'll have to chase him all over the house every day and have to go through the fighting with him when caught. I'll be needing sedation..... ... honestly. I don't know if I can deal with the chasing him and dragging him out and the fighting he puts up. We're not talking about a cat we can just walk over too and pick up.
When being forcibly restrained and fighting us to escape, I doubt he'll even notice anything wiped on his lips. I can try butter but I don't think he'll connect it to being picked up when he calms down whether he likes butter or not. I've had many cats over my lifetime including the ones I fostered in the past. I've never had one like this before. If we were rich (believe me, we budget to live our retirement dreams of camping and snow-birding) I would try and find one of those cat behaviorists, but from what I understand, they're as expensive as a psychiatrist for people/children.
I didn't 'restrain' her. I simply picked her up, struggling and swearing and trying to bite, put her on the table, then let her go. The next step, in a few weeks was, pick her up draped her over my arm, then release her and so on.
I've never been able to master the scruff technique.
Yes I can tell you are about at your wits end. I've been reading your posts a long time and never have I heard you so stressed, or rejecting of every suggestion like this.
Clearly Zebulon is one of those exceptions. You may have to work out an arrangement with your vet and bring him in once a month, have the vet give him a whiff of sevoflurane gas and then snip those claws. Sevo is safe and quick.
I realize getting him into the carrier once a month will be the challenge, if you resort to this. But, like you say, for his own safety, these claws have to be clipped. As he gets older hopefully they won't grow as quickly.
And in the mean time you could continue with the Paw Work, if at all feasible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParallelJJCat
Buyer beware on the emery cat...I was just looking at them (I guess they have two inserts, one with sand and one with cardboard) and it looks like the business has scammed a lot of people. Stuff like not sending the product out or overcharging in the ordering process and refusing to cancel the order. If you want to try it, buy it in a store.
I did actually buy one once (with the cardboard) and had to return it immediately because it had a very strong unpleasant plastic order.
To OP...maybe a chunk of tree branch nailed to a sturdy platform? Hard wood is great for wearing down nails. Some cats go nuts for it, some aren't interested, but it's cheap to try
Yes, the on line ordering is a scam, like all these "as seen on TV" products. The main safely issue I read about was claws getting caught in the cardboard cells, because of the sprayed on sandpaper.
I was thinking about wood too, if they can get Zebulon to use it. Good idea.
To OP...maybe a chunk of tree branch nailed to a sturdy platform? Hard wood is great for wearing down nails. Some cats go nuts for it, some aren't interested, but it's cheap to try
He has a 5' vertical tree trunk in the outdoor enclosure. I've never seen any of them use it.
I've never been able to master the scruff technique.
Some people just can't get the hang of scruffing. Done correctly, the cat isn't harmed at all but is immobilized.
Quote:
Yes I can tell you are about at your wits end. I've been reading your posts a long time and never have I heard you so stressed, or rejecting of every suggestion like this.
Indeed I am since I've spoken to all the cat people I know, Googled, talked to the vet.... and nothing anyone suggested worked. De-clawing is out of the question so this has to be resolved somehow without Zeb or my husband getting hurt. We're going to try the paw thing every day and see if that makes a difference. We love this little guy and the thought of him ripping out a claw and bleeding to death is too horrible to contemplate.
Quote:
And in the mean time you could continue with the Paw Work, if at all feasible.
We plan to. There's nothing to lose..........
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Soon I was unable to touch him at all outside the bedroom as he learned to avoid being picked up. Now, he lets me pet him with one hand only. As soon as he sees the second hand approach him, he vanishes. We can't pick him up with one hand. He's too large and heavy. I cringe to think we'll have to chase him all over the house every day and have to go through the fighting with him when caught. I'll be needing sedation..... 
... honestly. I don't know if I can deal with the chasing him and dragging him out and the fighting he puts up. We're not talking about a cat we can just walk over too and pick up.
Getting the correct dose into him would be difficult. Pilling him would have to be a real nightmare without an experienced person to scruff him. I pray he never gets sick. I'll say it again... I've had a lot of cats go through my life, none were anything like this cat. 
So it's something we must do. If they didn't grow abnormally long and curved we would leave him be because he doesn't do any damage to the house. And he doesn't purposely scratch us, it just happens when we're trying to restrain him. 
