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Old 04-22-2013, 04:49 AM
 
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I thought this was interesting.

Cat Food And Diet In The Treatment Of Feline Kidney Failure - felinegood.co.uk
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh area
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With a cat diagnosed with this recently, it's all fresh in my mind. The keys seem to be (I've done a lot of reading on this recently again, in addition to having looked at it in the past):

CAT MUST EAT. It is critical not to underestimate this part. The CKD cat will be less interested in eating and many are actually dying of a kind of slow starvation because they're just not getting enough intake. Amber has had some experience over the last week with eating prompted by me spooning food at her (she licks it off the spoon). I plan to continue supplementing that way indefinitely trying to get her intake at around 300 calories or so. In the link this is basically covered by palatability but knowing your cat is getting enough food is extremely important over the short and long term.

After that, restricted phosphorous would be good. Increased potassium would probably be good. Lower protein is debatable.

The only commercial foods that get seriously low in phosphorous are most of the "prescription" renal diets. Some of them aren't even that low. Apparently they get an exemption though for these special formulations, as otherwise any canned food sold in the US is not allowed to be less than 0.5% phosphorous on dry-matter basis.

Non-prescription foods that are fairly low include Hi-Tor Neo which is supposed to be somewhat formulated for this (although phosphorous is in the 0.7x% range) and there are a few others I've found. Castor and Pollux's Organix line has a couple varieties that are in the 0.6x% range while still being calorie-dense, which is of course the other consideration. I've been looking at foods where a 5.5oz can has something approaching or north of 200 calories. In just starting to get her to eat, I ignored the phosphorous stuff, but it turns out she wouldn't get interested in them anyway. What got her eating again was baby food, which is also fairly calorie-dense and lowish in phosphorous. The highest cal of the Gerber 2nds which have just meat and water (make sure no onion! a few other kinds have it) was chicken, at 100 calories in the little jar. Although ham was actually the bigger hit surprisingly. Ham and turkey have 80 calories per jar, beef has 70.

Right now I'm using some Hill's A/D to get her off the baby food. This is 1.0% phosphorous, so I'll be trying to shift her away from it. But it's nice and mushy. If that remains the big problem I will puree something else if I have to. So strange to have her go from preferring dry kibble and chunky wet foods to this.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:46 AM
 
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I was thinking of you when I posted it, and almost put it in your thread. Acidosis is another issue to be hyper aware of. It seems to be missed quite often, or not considered often enough.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:14 PM
 
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Best part about Hi-Tor Neo? My other cats absolutely hate it. They try to cover it like a fresh litter box deposit!

But it leaves a whole bowl for my kidney boy, and he is back to a very healthy weight.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:05 AM
 
Location: In a cat house! ;)
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With all due respect, found that website to contain a LOT of misinformation... from what I have seen first hand and learned here:

Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition :: healthy cat diet, making cat food, litter box, cat food, cat nutrition, cat urinary tract health
Make sure you read the info about RX "food" also.

More Info
http://feline-nutrition.org/nutritio...gredient-label
http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/k...in-older-cats/
http://www.felineoutreach.org/Education/Kidney.html

Last edited by Lola4; 04-23-2013 at 02:17 AM..
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg42 View Post
The only commercial foods that get seriously low in phosphorous are most of the "prescription" renal diets. Some of them aren't even that low. Apparently they get an exemption though for these special formulations, as otherwise any canned food sold in the US is not allowed to be less than 0.5% phosphorous on dry-matter basis.
To clarify this which I posted yesterday, it must be over 0.5% phosphorous on dry matter basis to be certified "complete" by the AAFCO. It is possible to have lower numbers and sell the food, but AAFCO (for whatever they're worth, not always that much) would only consider it "supplemental" feeding or whatever. Indeed it says this on the cans of A/D.
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola4 View Post
With all due respect, found that website to contain a LOT of misinformation... from what I have seen first hand and learned here:

Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition :: healthy cat diet, making cat food, litter box, cat food, cat nutrition, cat urinary tract health
Make sure you read the info about RX "food" also.

More Info
Reading a Pet Food Ingredient Label
Kidney Disease in Cats | Little Big Cat
Feline Outreach - Education - Kidney Disease

I had just never seen the rational behind the special kidney diets spelled out before.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leanansidhex View Post
I had just never seen the rational behind the special kidney diets spelled out before.
At the initial link at least she only harps on k/d dry. I'm not considering feeding that. I read the ingredients of a can today and have online before, and I almost bought a can at Petsmart where they now have it all out on a shelf, but they don't let you buy them without a special card. They do let you buy the Royal Canin ones so I bought one to see. It intrigued me that it has pork, heh; ham has been the favorite baby food. (I also found a pork food from Simply Nourish I think it is, so strange to see.)

At this point the cat eats wet food (even if it's mostly baby food) and shows no interest in her old dry, so there's no reason to look to go back to dry. I don't know what it's going to be like in the coming days and weeks.

The first priority though is eating at all, though. Then we can worry about phosphorous and such. I defer more to the exhaustive page about issues with kidney disease than the cited food site though. Reminders like the Little Big Cat page are good, e.g. it's hard to get low phosphorous without protein also being low, feeding other items may negate the effect, etc. For all I know anything with those sort of ideal foods is weeks or months in the future anyway, if ever.

So what's a good supplement if this cat is eating only baby food?
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh area
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I never thought the food would be harder than the sub-q fluids. Amber purred right through the treatment today....

I seriously do need to know how to supplement the baby food, if anyone has a source who decides to read back again. It's been almost a week with little else eaten, and that's already too long. Need taurine I know but not sure what else.
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Old 04-26-2013, 05:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg42 View Post
I never thought the food would be harder than the sub-q fluids. Amber purred right through the treatment today....

I seriously do need to know how to supplement the baby food, if anyone has a source who decides to read back again. It's been almost a week with little else eaten, and that's already too long. Need taurine I know but not sure what else.
Buy the stinkiest canned food you can find. Mush it up... heat it up to bring out the "aroma"...just thinking about it gags me.

When Elsa and Daisy were in their teens with CRF - the original "Sheba" cat food was available. Dear Lord.. it stunk.. but I got them to eat it. There's a new Sheba on the market now.. don't know if it stinks as bad..........

My vet's number one MUST - get the cat to eat!!!!!!!

I got them to eat..... eventually and kept it up with sub q's, phos binder, tagamet, etc. Neither one died of CRF but other ailments. Daisy was 17-1/2 and Elsa was 20.

Forgot to add: to start.... just float a bit of the babyfood over the top of the mushed cat food to get her to accept the bowl.

Last edited by ocngypz; 04-26-2013 at 05:34 PM..
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