Balancing the raw meat diet... (weight, kidney, safe, throw)

[=^..^=]

The reason I mention that is because without an additive in some kind of liquid or powered form, it's not possible for me to do living where I am. I have no access to organ meat other than liver - and not always liver other than from chickens. Sometimes the stores even lack chicken liver. I can't order organ meat from any of our stores. They can't get it for me. They don't sell chicken necks here either. I see ingredients we have no access to on the Raw Forums. The Aisian stores have an assortment of sea foods but not organs from mammals. There is no Hispanic community near us anymore. So I would need to use muscle meat but have no grinder (another expense as we would have to buy one) and read that this is a real mess to deal with. That it's not safe to buy meat already ground due to bacterial contamination. This is confusing to us because the natural prey of cats is not sterile. Then there's the issue of how and where to store it in the raw state. The freezer in our fridge is out of the question as we would need to make at least 7 to 10 lbs a week. So the issue of pressure canning comes in. Since it takes 90 minutes to pressure can any kind of meat, it would be cooked to death like what comes in the cans (think Pate). I just don't believe 3 of our 4 cats will eat something like that.

If anyone here is now feeding raw to their cats, how are you balancing their diet? Where are you getting organ meat from and what are you using when chicken necks are not available? What supplement are you adding per lb of food - if any? Have you ever had any problems with ground bone?

I don't understand the change in what the stores here carry. Only a few short years ago I was getting sweetbreads, liver from both calves and chickens, kidneys from calves and pigs but now - nothing but chicken liver. It just seems odd that all of a sudden there was no more call for these meats.

[bob&willy]

I am in California and have the same issue. I can get free range organic chicken parts no livers or hearts. For now i am buying Rad Cat at Pet Food Express. It is way to expensive for me but it brought my cat, Bob, back to health in a short time. I hope to start making their food as soon as I gather up all the supplements and find out the exact amounts for each batch. I am going through about 2 1/2 large Rad Cats a week at $19.00 each. I am hoping if I can find everything to make it I can cut the cost in half. My two cats are changed pets. One is losing weight the other regaining. They both love this food. I can't get it to them fast enough. They like it ice cold even. I am now buying the whole organic chickens for us and give the cats the hearts and livers once a week. I tried the neck but they don't know how to chew the bones. Bob just chewed a bit then swallowed. I will give them only organic chickens and turkey. I want to stay away from gmo feed the growers give the chickens and turkeys, for us and our pets. It is getting harder to do.
I plan on using the meat grinder attachment for my Kitchen aid mixer to grind thigh meat and add the supplements. I want to make my own calcium carbonate from egg shells too. Wish I could find a source for dried egg yolk. I am looking.
Good luck with your raw food. It is so worth the effort, cheaper than vet bills that is for sure.

[=^..^=]

Originally Posted by bob&willy

I am in California and have the same issue. I can get free range organic chicken parts no livers or hearts. For now i am buying Rad Cat at Pet Food Express. It is way to expensive for me but it brought my cat, Bob, back to health in a short time. I hope to start making their food as soon as I gather up all the supplements and find out the exact amounts for each batch. I am going through about 2 1/2 large Rad Cats a week at $19.00 each.

At $13 lb (before S&H charges) I couldn't afford it anyway. I go through about a lb of food a day for the 4 cats, sometimes more.

I am hoping if I can find everything to make it I can cut the cost in half. My two cats are changed pets. One is losing weight the other regaining. They both love this food. I can't get it to them fast enough. They like it ice cold even. I am now buying the whole organic chickens for us and give the cats the hearts and livers once a week. I tried the neck but they don't know how to chew the bones. Bob just chewed a bit then swallowed. I will give them only organic chickens and turkey. I want to stay away from gmo feed the growers give the chickens and turkeys, for us and our pets. It is getting harder to do.

It looks like a very good food all things considered. I would like to know where all the organ meat and other internal organs are going that we used to see in the stores here. Coldcuts? Is it being shipped overseas? Millions of animals are slaughtered in this country every week for food... each has a liver and 2 kidneys, a heart etc. Where is it all going?

I plan on using the meat grinder attachment for my Kitchen aid mixer to grind thigh meat and add the supplements. I want to make my own calcium carbonate from egg shells too. Wish I could find a source for dried egg yolk. I am looking.
Good luck with your raw food. It is so worth the effort, cheaper than vet bills that is for sure.

Not when it cost $390.00 a month to order it plus whatever the shipping is for frozen food. How much supplement are you adding per lb and where are you getting it from?

[Three Wolves In Snow]

Originally Posted by =^..^=

The reason I mention that is because without an additive in some kind of liquid or powered form, it's not possible for me to do living where I am. I have no access to organ meat other than liver - and not always liver other than from chickens. Sometimes the stores even lack chicken liver. I can't order organ meat from any of our stores. They can't get it for me. They don't sell chicken necks here either. I see ingredients we have no access to on the Raw Forums. The Aisian stores have an assortment of sea foods but not organs from mammals. There is no Hispanic community near us anymore. So I would need to use muscle meat but have no grinder (another expense as we would have to buy one) and read that this is a real mess to deal with. That it's not safe to buy meat already ground due to bacterial contamination. This is confusing to us because the natural prey of cats is not sterile. Then there's the issue of how and where to store it in the raw state. The freezer in our fridge is out of the question as we would need to make at least 7 to 10 lbs a week. So the issue of pressure canning comes in. Since it takes 90 minutes to pressure can any kind of meat, it would be cooked to death like what comes in the cans (think Pate). I just don't believe 3 of our 4 cats will eat something like that.

If anyone here is now feeding raw to their cats, how are you balancing their diet? Where are you getting organ meat from and what are you using when chicken necks are not available? What supplement are you adding per lb of food - if any? Have you ever had any problems with ground bone?

I don't understand the change in what the stores here carry. Only a few short years ago I was getting sweetbreads, liver from both calves and chickens, kidneys from calves and pigs but now - nothing but chicken liver. It just seems odd that all of a sudden there was no more call for these meats.

I have been feeding them raw for three years now. I learned, quickly, to invest in a separate freezer. It didn't cost much, and before I moved here, it was out in my yard, covered with a tarp that was secured by bunji cords. It worked well. Now I have room to have it in the house. It's a chest freezer, it's not big, but it will hold well over 150 pounds of meat.

When I lived in Miami, I was very lucky. Those Latinos eat a lot of weird stuff, but that worked out very well for my pets. They got all the crazy stuff I would never eat, that was totally beneficial to them. And, because it was so common, it wasn't overpriced.

I moved up here and while I can still find some things, it's not anywhere near what I used to be able to get. So what I did was find a farm. I got lucky because a vet tech told me about a farm that sold meat for dog food. Yah, it's ground up, but it's never been through all that processing that the meat we eat, has gone through. Also, they sell beef hearts, beef liver, and kidney, CHEAP, so I get some of that, as well.

The rest is chicken liver, and I am able to get gizzards sometimes that will have chicken hearts in there, along with the rest of the stuff. That's about all I can find, besides their regular meat that they get.

Still, it's pretty good. I throw an egg at them, every so often, and let them eat the whole thing, shell and all. The only thing I have to add is to the dog's food, and that's non shelled sesame seeds, or flax, just to get them some fats that they may not be getting. Other than that, the farm and the chicken livers I get do a pretty good job keeping them up on their nutrients.

Have you looked around for a farm? People don't always talk about them. I told another person who lived in my state her whole life, in my area, about the farm I go to. I've been here two years, she's been here several years and didn't even know. I just got lucky that the vet tech was so open with me. Ask around. Look up farms, and see if there are any that will sell meat for pets to the public.

What about co-ops? Any of those in your area? Sometimes, even if one drops off an hour or so away, you can hook up with someone else and share the driving.

If nothing else, Tiki Cat has cat food, (and dog food), that has NO garbage in it. I don't know if I'm allowed to link here, but look them up. Find their site, not a site that sells it, find their site. It will give you the ingredients in their food. All raw.

[=^..^=]

Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow

I have been feeding them raw for three years now. I learned, quickly, to invest in a separate freezer. It didn't cost much, and before I moved here, it was out in my yard, covered with a tarp that was secured by bunji cords. It worked well. Now I have room to have it in the house. It's a chest freezer, it's not big, but it will hold well over 150 pounds of meat.

I haven't looked at freezers. I can probably fit a small one in the garage. I first have to know I can find out what "supplement" I need to add per lb of raw meat. It can take awhile for cats to develop obvious nutritional deficiencies but they will on raw meat alone.

When I lived in Miami, I was very lucky. Those Latinos eat a lot of weird stuff, but that worked out very well for my pets. They got all the crazy stuff I would never eat, that was totally beneficial to them. And, because it was so common, it wasn't overpriced.

When the economy was good and we had a large Mexican community here, I could find all kinds of organ meat. Now the only organ meat I can find is liver. The rest is all muscle meat such as poultry gizzards and hearts.

I moved up here and while I can still find some things, it's not anywhere near what I used to be able to get. So what I did was find a farm. I got lucky because a vet tech told me about a farm that sold meat for dog food. Yah, it's ground up, but it's never been through all that processing that the meat we eat, has gone through. Also, they sell beef hearts, beef liver, and kidney, CHEAP, so I get some of that, as well.

Nothing like that here and there is no one I can ask. No one slaughters here anymore. It's turning from an agrarian area to all subdivisions. Those who raise cattle here sell to dealers who sell them for slaughter. There was a small private slaughterhouse that sold to the public but it closed a few years ago.

The rest is chicken liver, and I am able to get gizzards sometimes that will have chicken hearts in there, along with the rest of the stuff. That's about all I can find, besides their regular meat that they get.

Still, it's pretty good. I throw an egg at them, every so often, and let them eat the whole thing, shell and all. The only thing I have to add is to the dog's food, and that's non shelled sesame seeds, or flax, just to get them some fats that they may not be getting. Other than that, the farm and the chicken livers I get do a pretty good job keeping them up on their nutrients.

Are your cats also hunting for themselves or are they indoor-only cats? So the only calcium they get is "every so often" when you toss an egg at them? That doesn't sound like a balanced diet to me.

Have you looked around for a farm?

See above. I need to know what supplement is needed per lb of raw meat to balance it. Meat and an occasional egg is not a balanced diet for cats. Farms here don't slaughter.

People don't always talk about them.

Then how would anyone know? Who would I ask? Where would I ask? And even if I could come across the rare farmer still slaughtering, he wouldn't know about supplements and feeding cats. We also have laws here about selling raw meat to the public. I've living here since 1979 and never heard of any farmer selling raw meat to the public or their neighbors.

I told another person who lived in my state her whole life, in my area, about the farm I go to. I've been here two years, she's been here several years and didn't even know. I just got lucky that the vet tech was so open with me. Ask around. Look up farms, and see if there are any that will sell meat for pets to the public.

Look up farms? They don't have names here. There is no way to "look them up."

What about co-ops? Any of those in your area? Sometimes, even if one drops off an hour or so away, you can hook up with someone else and share the driving.

Co-ops here don't sell meat and as I said, we have laws here concerning selling raw meat to people. So I doubt if anyone is doing it the word would get around to strangers.

If nothing else, Tiki Cat has cat food, (and dog food), that has NO garbage in it. I don't know if I'm allowed to link here, but look them up. Find their site, not a site that sells it, find their site. It will give you the ingredients in their food. All raw.

I was hoping someone here was feeding raw and using one supplement per lb of raw mixed meats. My cats can't go out and hunt to supplement a plain meat diet that is unbalanced. I don't have a grinder to grind meat w/bone so would have to cut it in strips or small chunks. That would leave out the bone though and so be very unbalanced where calcium is concerned. They will not eat raw chicken wings and necks as shown on some of the raw websites. A taurine deficiency could and would be deadly for cats. So the supplement would have to contain taurine.

[Three Wolves In Snow]

Originally Posted by =^..^=

I haven't looked at freezers. I can probably fit a small one in the garage. I first have to know I can find out what "supplement" I need to add per lb of raw meat. It can take awhile for cats to develop obvious nutritional deficiencies but they will on raw meat alone.

If you don't have the space in your own freezer, this is an option, which is why I mentioned it.

Are your cats also hunting for themselves or are they indoor-only cats? So the only calcium they get is "every so often" when you toss an egg at them? That doesn't sound like a balanced diet to me.

Well, you should probably not take things so literally, then. I've been doing this for three years, I know what I'm doing. You know, they get calcium from bones, too. You did know that, right?

See above. I need to know what supplement is needed per lb of raw meat to balance it. Meat and an occasional egg is not a balanced diet for cats. Farms here don't slaughter.

Again, until you know their exact feeding, don't take things literally and tell me that what I am doing is wrong.

Then how would anyone know? Who would I ask? Where would I ask? And even if I could come across the rare farmer still slaughtering, he wouldn't know about supplements and feeding cats. We also have laws here about selling raw meat to the public. I've living here since 1979 and never heard of any farmer selling raw meat to the public or their neighbors.

There's this fascinating new invention called the internet. No, people don't talk about it, but you can look up farms on the internet. Just type in farms. Seriously. Get your location, type in farms, slaughter houses...c'mon, you're smarter than this. You call every single one of them. Even if fifty in a row tell you that they don't sell for pets, you keep calling.

Look up farms? They don't have names here. There is no way to "look them up."

See above.

Co-ops here don't sell meat and as I said, we have laws here concerning selling raw meat to people. So I doubt if anyone is doing it the word would get around to strangers.

What part of the country do you live in? I have found it to be very rare that a raw feeding co-op wouldn't come at least within a couple of hours of where someone lives, despite where they live. It's possible, but have you really tried looking?

I was hoping someone here was feeding raw and using one supplement per lb of raw mixed meats. My cats can't go out and hunt to supplement a plain meat diet that is unbalanced. I don't have a grinder to grind meat w/bone so would have to cut it in strips or small chunks. That would leave out the bone though and so be very unbalanced where calcium is concerned. They will not eat raw chicken wings and necks as shown on some of the raw websites. A taurine deficiency could and would be deadly for cats. So the supplement would have to contain taurine.

If you feed them right, you don't need supplements. You really need to read this:

What About Cats?

If that link gets deleted, it's rawfed dot com slash myth slash cats dot html

It should answer your taurine questions. Why would you have to grind the bone? That doesn't even make sense. The point of raw is to have them break that down themselves. How long have you been feeding raw? What did you start with if not bone in chicken? The first two weeks of raw are supposed to be bone in chicken. If your cats won't eat bone in chicken, then what did you give them when they started?

You don't have to just feed them raw wings and necks, my cats get the whole fricken chicken leg to gnaw on. If we have a thigh, I cut it in half, and give half of a thigh to each cat. They eat the meat and take turns chomping on the bones. Where did you get your information about raw feeding cats, I'm curious.

[Three Wolves In Snow]

Here, a 30 second Google search came up with these results for co-ops:

groups (dot) yahoo (dot) com/neo/groups/tntripe/info - green tripe in Murfreesboro, TN, plus sharing of knowledge about other raw products in Tennessee.


groups (dot) yahoo (dot) com/neo/groups/Kansas_City_BARF/info - for people living in Kansas City Missouri or Kansas City Kansas and ALL surrounding areas, including, but not limited to, all areas of Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, and Oklahoma.

groups(dot)yahoo(dot)com/neo/groups/Natural_Raw_Diet/info

middle Tennessee area (Nashville, Clarksville, Bowling Green, Cookeville, etc.)

groups (dot) yahoo (dot) com slash neo slash groups slash MDTN underscore BARF slash info

facebook (dot)com/EastTennesseeRawFeeders

Slaughter houses in TN:

https:
//ag (dot)tennessee(dot)edu(slash)cpa(slash)Information %20sheets(slash)CPA%20171(dot)pdf

[=^..^=]

Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow

Here, a 30 second Google search came up with these results for co-ops:

..........

Thank you but I was unable to find any place selling raw organ meat anywhere near where I live. One of those pages couldn't be found and there was no info on somehow forcing cats to consume raw chicken with the bone in. I guess you missed some of this thread. Let me add that we can't afford to spend $10 or more a day feeding the four cats buying from specialty feed stores. That's way out of our budget.

[=^..^=]

[quote=Three Wolves In Snow;32003691] Well, you should probably not take things so literally, then. I've been doing this for three years, I know what I'm doing. You know, they get calcium from bones, too. You did know that, right?...

Why be so rude? I always take what people post literally since I can't read minds. You said raw meat and occasional eggs and that's what I took you to mean. Maybe you should have been more specific. I repeat as you seem to have missed the fact that I cannot get our cats to get bone-in chicken. After several weeks of having to look for disgusting chicken parts, which is very unsanitary to say the least, all over my house, we gave up on trying to convince them to eat it. I repeat, despite there still being farms here, no one slaughters and sells the raw meat to the public. The specialty feed stores that existed here charged prices few of us can afford. That's why I wanted to try chopped or cut up meat with a supplement to balance it. A supplement that contained calcium and the other nutrients cats need. Feed companies always add turine since cats seem to need more than is supplied by non-organ meat.

[eevee188]

Where in Middle TN do you live? I live in Williamson County, we have a huge Hispanic population. I can't think of anywhere that doesn't except for the really rural, 98% white areas. Try Craigslist for farms that sell meat animals. Some will butcher it for you for free or a small fee. That's quasi-legal, but if you tell them it's for cat food you should be fine.