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Old 01-03-2014, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Ohio
14,313 posts, read 12,569,286 times
Reputation: 19017

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And this is why I avoid pet diet discussions on this board. ^^^

There are millions and millions and millions of dogs and cats that live long, healthy lives eating regular commercial pet food.

If I had never owned a pet before and read things like this......I would be so overwhelmed that I would never get a pet at all.

One thing is for sure.....if people couldn't rely on commercial pet foods to feed their pets.....there would be a lot more dogs and cats being put down because they couldn't find a home with owners who had the time and money to prepare home made diets or buy hard to find, expensive foods.

I have friends with multiple dogs and cats.....and if they had to feed designer foods or home made diets.....most of their pets wouldn't have a home at all.

One of my friends has ten dogs and sixteen cats, all rescues....and if he had to follow these kinds of feeding guidelines, most of them would have died on the streets where he found them.

Myself, and most everyone I know, have always fed Purina, except for the rare times when a prescription diet is required, and we all have healthy, happy pets that don't keel over dead at young ages.

Vets don't know what they are doing/can't trust them, special/home made diets required......keep it up guys.....you are going a great job of scaring people away from pet ownership.

And with that.....I am DONE.
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Old 01-03-2014, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh area
9,918 posts, read 19,683,339 times
Reputation: 5072
I do think we have to try to find a balance between scaring people away (although I hardly think this little corner of the internet scares too many people away from giving a home to a pet) and being blindly accepting of what large pet food manufacturers tell us about pet food. Pet food is not that heavily regulated, and we see what kinds of problems arise even in the human food supply these days. This is not some conspiracy crackpot stuff. It is just the reality of our industrial food supply.

In terms of vets, much of what many vets know about pet food comes only from the pet food companies themselves. Understanding that to me is not the same as not trusting my vet but acknowledging that there can be weakness in some areas of vets' knowledge. I found my vet to be an excellent resource and very understanding during Amber's illness last year. He sees only cats so he understands specifically about cats, plus we never have to deal with dogs at the office. He spent generous time on the phone with me when necessary. (I did not have to pay for the phone time, which may have totaled a couple hours by the end.) He purposely keeps the prices of most things as low as he can. I trust him and we're going to take the new cats there (tomorrow in fact). But I think he might have a little bit of weakness in the nutrition area. He seemed open to most things though and in earlier less ill visits with Amber he never made a big deal of what she was eating.

The best thing, as always, is not to take anything said here on this forum as gospel but to go and explore on your own. Come to your own conclusions after reading a lot of material, not simply from disbelief or rejection of certain attitudes displayed in here and other fourms. And, also, for me anyway, I might look at what is ideal but then I temper that a bit with what is most feasible in a given situation that gets as close as it's going to get. For example, I currently feed commercial canned food. Might I go to a homemade diet? I don't know, not sure I can keep up with it. But I see it out there as something I might try that might be beneficial. Cost also has to be a consideration for most of us. I'm kind of ignoring it myself at the moment but realizing that now I'm going to have TWO cats and just how much the food is going to cost. At my current rate and current food it'll cost $1200/year aka $100/month! That might be okay for the moment but could be a problem someday.

I personally don't think we should discourage people from taking in a cat even if all they can feed is food that to some of us looks inappropriate. But I also don't think we should ignore the aspect of what would be more ideal to feed the cat. I do think the way in which this is stated here in this forum is sometimes too over the top.
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Colorado
9,734 posts, read 6,269,187 times
Reputation: 17549
I definitely don't think someone should choose not to get a pet because all they can afford to feed is kibble, even if I stand my ground and declare it to be inferior to wet food.

(And the whole "millions of animals live long lives eating it" argument, to me, reminds me of how many seniors I've known who smoked their whole lives and never got lung cancer. I still don't recommend it.)

I also know pet owners whose animals developed illnesses that would have been so costly to treat on an ongoing basis that they had a pet put down, because the alternative was to let the animal die suffering of some sickness. Would I ever yell at anyone forced to make that choice? NO.

I tell people I know that they should feed their cats the best that they can afford. But if they're paying outrageous prices for supposedly healthy "premium" dry kibble, I'm gonna try to insist that they read catinfo.org so they can learn why they shouldn't do that.

The whole "this is why I avoid these threads" retort in response to a PILE of studies from credible sources...sounds a lot like "I insist on thinking I'm right and don't want to see any intelligent arguments otherwise." Sorry, but people who believe in canned/raw feeding and a conflict of interest in the veterinary/pet food relationship do so because we've seen enough credible evidence and testimony to believe it. It isn't because...ALIENS.

And again, vets aren't the only professionals who don't always know what's up. I was given Depo Provera shots for years for birth control, they caused me to have SEVERE personality changes which nearly destroyed my marriage among other things...and I have yet to find a single MD who will admit that injected hormone shots are capable of that. It's simply not in the brochure.

Yet they give the same substance under a different name to sex offenders to suppress their libido. True fact. My docs won't admit that either. They've "uh...never heard about that..." The shots were administered in the doctor's office, purchased from the doc, requiring payment for the visit every 3 months.

Also, in Canada and the UK, there have been successful class action suits against the makers of this drug for various long term detrimental side effects...which no doc I've talked to has ever heard of, either.

All of that is fairly off-topic in a way, but the point I'm trying to illustrate, highlight, and underscore, is that sometimes you have to be your own best advocate for your health and your animals' health, even in the face of this attitude that "I have a degree, you have the internet, silence peasant!" I've been to college. Getting through college doesn't mean you know everything, and biology and pharmacology, not to mention nutrition, are INCREDIBLY complex topics. Good luck finding a doc, or a vet, that knows everything you'd like them to about your health or an animal's...now you find one who is willing to work with you as a team, then you've got a winner.
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:43 AM
 
566 posts, read 832,048 times
Reputation: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsmom21 View Post
"RX" pet food manufacturers offering incentives to vets if they sell more of their foods. Now you know.


Is This Ethical?
Not ethical to me.

Look around the office - the note pads with the drug names, pens, calendars...etc. Just like all the rest of the medical professions. It's a BUSINESS! There is a BOTTOM line to consider.

Go into your supermarket and look what is at your EYE level! Some of the worst processed "foods" that have ingredient lists that sound like bug spray. Why are they THERE? Product PLACEMENT. The big butt corporations PAY for that spot.
Want the better stuff? Look at the bottom shelves. Look for the organic. The items that are GMO free. That is what you should eat.

Every time I had a concern about my pets, my vet had a diet. I feed mine raw--NOTHING from China - I even trace some ingredients back to that place and reject. No grain, raw. I supplement with coconut oil, probiotics from goat yogurt, and some homeopathy for allergies. I don't trust the items sold from BIG corporations that have A HUGE AD bill to pay. No thanks. It might take five years before the negative effects begin to show in your dog - but in my opinion too many dogs are way overweight, diabetic, or dying from cancer. I say it's the choice of food.

Does your vet INSIST that your pet get 5 or more vaccs? WHY? My pets are never outside unless to go to the bathroom and they are ON A LEASH. No supermarkets. NO dog parks. I run with them alone.

No rabid squirrels ready to bite them. I don't allow them to drink puddles. They are healthy.

IT IS BUSINESS. That is all. And there are incentives to those that "push" the junk. Whether the pet needs it or not. Dr. needs a new BMW!!
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:25 AM
 
380 posts, read 535,355 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post

But if they're paying outrageous prices for supposedly healthy "premium" dry kibble, I'm gonna try to insist that they read catinfo.org so they can learn why they shouldn't do that.
BINGO!!

Most people do not realise (because nobody who *Should be* will inform them) that there are MUCH more healthy AND economically-friendly diet options available to them than the carbohydrate/corn-laden "Pre$cription" food$$. The Ingredient labels say it all. For one, just look at the ingredient panels for logical explanation of why the animals are forced to the WATER bowl much more frequently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post

Good luck finding a doc, or a vet, that knows everything you'd like them to about your health or an animal's...now you find one who is willing to work with you as a team, then you've got a winner.
We were blessed with such a Veterinary professional for many years and there was no need or thought to ever second guess anything. Our pets didn't start dropping like flies, until after moving away. He most certainly never tried insisting that our (falcutative or obligate) carnivores "needed" to be eating carbohydrate-laden cereal! He studied long before Colgate got its paws on what was once a decent small company with good intentions....

Last edited by Pamina333; 01-03-2014 at 11:33 AM..
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Old 01-03-2014, 12:48 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 88,958,716 times
Reputation: 30256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
And with that.....I am DONE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
The whole "this is why I avoid these threads" retort in response to a PILE of studies from credible sources...sounds a lot like "I insist on thinking I'm right and don't want to see any intelligent arguments otherwise." Sorry, but people who believe in canned/raw feeding and a conflict of interest in the veterinary/pet food relationship do so because we've seen enough credible evidence and testimony to believe it. It isn't because...ALIENS.
Annie is being stubborn. She accused us of conspiracy theories. When faced with proof, she went off on a tangent about Purina---which isn't even a prescription diet she was originally defending---and ran away. BUT you're trying to make this a canned/raw debate. Let's try to stick to the topic of prescription/non-prescription food. This thread is about vets making unnecessary money at the expense of gullible pet owners when there are more affordable healthy diets for special needs that don't require a prescription.
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Old 01-03-2014, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Colorado
9,734 posts, read 6,269,187 times
Reputation: 17549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
Annie is being stubborn. She accused us of conspiracy theories. When faced with proof, she went off on a tangent about Purina---which isn't even a prescription diet she was originally defending---and ran away. BUT you're trying to make this a canned/raw debate. Let's try to stick to the topic of prescription/non-prescription food. This thread is about vets making unnecessary money at the expense of gullible pet owners when there are more affordable healthy diets for special needs that don't require a prescription.
True enough, and good call.
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:13 PM
 
7,022 posts, read 5,772,668 times
Reputation: 6963
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsmom21 View Post
"RX" pet food manufacturers offering incentives to vets if they sell more of their foods. Now you know.


Is This Ethical?
This has been going on for years with Iams and Royal Canin. Veterinarians are bombarded with pet food incentives and propaganda the moment they enter Vet school. The food you see being promoted in your veterinarian's office has nothing to do with how much healthier it is for your pet, but how much in kickbacks the Vet office is getting for promoting and selling it to their customers.
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:30 PM
 
5,876 posts, read 11,745,747 times
Reputation: 7976
Quote:
Originally Posted by renault View Post
This has been going on for years with Iams and Royal Canin. Veterinarians are bombarded with pet food incentives and propaganda the moment they enter Vet school. The food you see being promoted in your veterinarian's office has nothing to do with how much healthier it is for your pet, but how much in kickbacks the Vet office is getting for promoting and selling it to their customers.
Yes, I do know. I want other people to know, too.
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:41 PM
 
Location: In a cat house! ;)
1,632 posts, read 4,225,622 times
Reputation: 1960
The words from a vet that IS educated in feline nutrition:

Snip:

Quote:
Sadly, many of my colleagues do, indeed, recommend products made by Hill’s (and Purina) and this is a testament to the fact that most veterinarians are not well-versed in proper feline nutrition and simply defer to companies like Hill’s and Purina whose marketing budgets are huge. These large budgets include substantial sums of money dedicated to sponsoring - including very heavy advertising - our professional meetings and infiltrating veterinary schools to get students ‘married’ to their products.
Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition :: healthy cat diet, making cat food, litter box, cat food, cat nutrition, cat urinary tract health
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