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Old 12-09-2014, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Mayacama Mtns in CA
14,520 posts, read 8,727,668 times
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Umpire1955 wrote:
Quote:
Glad I did anyway. Thanks to the nice people for the holistic vet info...
Not all of us here on this forum go to holistic vets; I could not afford one. My vet seems to be kind and knowledgable EXCEPT she's had the usual non-training except coming from pet food reps concerning feline nutrition. I'm guessing she received her DVM about 15-20 years ago. I'm still looking for a way to get her interested in better knowledge of feline nutrition.

Dr Lisa Pierson has written that feeding 'even' Friskies, or other brands of wet food is better than any kind of dry, even the premium stuff. Though it's important to watch the ingredient list, as some brands are better than others. Friskies paté is what I regularly use.

Since Friskies is in my budget, it's what Fiona gets and is all I feed her. She's doing very well for the old girl that she is!
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Old 12-09-2014, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Black Hammock Island
4,620 posts, read 14,913,558 times
Reputation: 4620
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsmom21 View Post
Raw chunks of meat and bone does. Dry does not. It's an interesting theory and I can see how it might seem to make sense. But kibble isn't anything like bone or chunks of meat, and cats do not have the correct kind of jaws or teeth to get even that kind of benefit from kibble. Kibble is not exercising a cat's jaw in any beneficial way.
Eating kibble is, I agree, not the same as eating raw and bone. But kibble does have "benefit" in that it does require pressure that canned does not - certainly, and I do agree with you, that there are much better choices especially since kibble is too small whereas bones are not.

Like you, I have very little time in a day, and in a perfect world I'd cook my own meals from scratch, but many times I have to rely on take-out or frozen meals otherwise it would be bowls of cereal or a quick sandwich every night. Homecooking and preparing raw may be easy, but both are time-consuming (Martha Anne described the raw prep process and we all know the time necessary to scratch-cook a meal for ourselves). When someone just does not have the time, other choices have to be made, and for me opening a can of good cat food and occasionally pouring out a small dish of dry, and stopping by a local restaurant (and I don't mean the drive-through at McDonalds) are the best I can do.

The other issue with raw and bone is that whenever I've given my cats anything besides their "normal" food, they'll take it elsewhere to consume it. As it is, the cats will take large chunks of food and drop it outside their plates and finish eating it from the floor. (Using plates rather than bowls has reduced that action.) Call it a selfish preference, but I'd rather not have grease and goo on a carpet. Same with my dog - give him a biscuit or a bone and he'll take it away from the throng for consuming it in private. So all these kinds of things are given to them out on the screen patio so that I can hose down the cement.

Quote:
If you saw a cat eat meat and bone, you'd see what I mean. I'll hunt up a video of my girl enjoying a wing. It's nothing like eating kibble.
Indeed, I have seen raw and bones consumed, and watching such an activity clearly shows best how a cat eats. They cannot chew and grind up food in their mouths because their teeth do not line up like ours. They can only chomp things into chunks and swallow the chunks whole (which is why upchuck shortly after a meal contains food that looks exactly as it did on a plate).

Quote:
I would suggest adding a probiotic to the cat's diet. This will take care of the diarrhea while her body adjusts to getting decent nutrition again.
This is the kind of time when I really wish I knew Callie's history. She did belong to someone at some point, and whether they abandonned her or she got lost, who knows. But she's still in the processing of "losing" her wildness. It's taken since May for her to realize that when it rains all she has to do is come off the patio and not seek a dry spot out there somewhere. I have no idea what she was eating prior to her rescue and whether there were others who set out bowls of food or if she had to hunt moles and mice. The vet has not found any physical cause for her issues with canned, so it is up to me to find a way to transition her to good food.

Quote:
They aren't, really, fine on dry, ever. They seem fine, but low level chronic dehydration takes it's toll all the same. They feel so much better when properly hydrated and not walking around with an indigestible load of dough in their guts all the time. Remember that cats hide illness and certainly you wouldn't notice any minor discomfort. But it's there.
Would I survive well on a diet of McDonald's? No, of course not. But an occasional Big Mac meal isn't going to kill me -- just like an occasional bowl of dry isn't going to kill my cats. It's all about being knowledgeable. As I've said, I am a proponent of wet food and 95% of my cats' diet (except for Callie at the moment) is canned.

P.S. What I really like about his forum is that it's possible to disagree with other members and have a good conversation and debate without anyone bashing another. This cannot be said for other forums at all!
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Old 12-09-2014, 07:40 AM
 
2,280 posts, read 4,480,458 times
Reputation: 1851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macrina View Post
Umpire1955 wrote:

Not all of us here on this forum go to holistic vets; I could not afford one. My vet seems to be kind and knowledgable EXCEPT she's had the usual non-training except coming from pet food reps concerning feline nutrition. I'm guessing she received her DVM about 15-20 years ago. I'm still looking for a way to get her interested in better knowledge of feline nutrition.

Dr Lisa Pierson has written that feeding 'even' Friskies, or other brands of wet food is better than any kind of dry, even the premium stuff. Though it's important to watch the ingredient list, as some brands are better than others. Friskies paté is what I regularly use.

Since Friskies is in my budget, it's what Fiona gets and is all I feed her. She's doing very well for the old girl that she is!

Glad you pointed out that Friskies is better than dry of any brand. I fed Friskies, Natural Balance and Weruva when I did only canned. Why not, however, feed minced raw chicken or pork on the side of the plate? There are many benefits to doing that even if you feed mostly canned and all you have to do is take a chicken leg or boneless, unenhanced pork piece, etc. and mince it into fine pieces and lay at the side of a plate holding canned.
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Old 12-09-2014, 07:58 AM
 
2,280 posts, read 4,480,458 times
Reputation: 1851
[QUOTE=mawipafl;37572334
Like you, I have very little time in a day, and in a perfect world I'd cook my own meals from scratch, but many times I have to rely on take-out or frozen meals otherwise it would be bowls of cereal or a quick sandwich every night. Homecooking and preparing raw may be easy, but both are time-consuming (Martha Anne described the raw prep process and we all know the time necessary to scratch-cook a meal for ourselves). When someone just does not have the time, other choices have to be made, and for me opening a can of good cat food and occasionally pouring out a small dish of dry, and stopping by a local restaurant (and I don't mean the drive-through at McDonalds) are the best I can do.

The other issue with raw and bone is that whenever I've given my cats anything besides their "normal" food, they'll take it elsewhere to consume it. As it is, the cats will take large chunks of food and drop it outside their plates and finish eating it from the floor. (Using plates rather than bowls has reduced that action.) Call it a selfish preference, but I'd rather not have grease and goo on a carpet. Same with my dog - give him a biscuit or a bone and he'll take it away from the throng for consuming it in private. So all these kinds of things are given to them out on the screen patio so that I can hose down the cement.>>

May I give you my response since I am a 100% raw feeder who once fed mostly canned but also some dry?I was a person who worked a full time job plus a part time one on top of that, so I know what you mean about having little free time. Because I don't work now I was able to learn how to feed raw, but now if I worked full time and was single I would be able to feed all raw, no problem, because I know how to do it and integrate it into my own home cooking. Some people feel that they don't have that extra time or energy and I respect them for what they say because I hate it when someone tells me what time or energy I have! I feel that each of us knows what we can or cannot handle, but I do want to pass on encouraging information, at least, in case one has the idea that raw is not possible at all.

First, many people see it as an all or nothing proposition. Ideally, feed only raw because you eliminate the inferior quality of dry and the very high carbs in dry (carbs do damage to the intestinal lining and are the primary reason why cats get IBD with it's attendant diarrhea and vomiting). I would have gotten rid of all dry if I had realized that dry contains more carbs than wet and carbs are absolutely not good for cats, not at all, and in nature cats eat zero carbs. Their bodies are not designed to digest carbs.

But what does it take to have a chicken leg to debone and to mince the meat and place on the side of a plate of wet? Not much time or work, IMO. Starting out with tiny amounts, a cat usually grows to love that raw chicken and it's a hell of a better treat than is dry food.

Remember that canned food companies must over supplement the canned to make up for all of the cooking done which destroys nutrients. They have to make up for the loss of bone calcium, etc. too.

A fresh piece of raw, cut up, placed on the side of a plate, on a daily basis, can do a world of good for a cat's health.
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Old 12-09-2014, 10:51 AM
 
35,095 posts, read 50,952,945 times
Reputation: 62660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha Anne;37552406[B
]Veterinarians have zero training in the science of feline nutrition.[/b] They get a rep from the pet food manufacturer coming to the vet school and the rep holds up a can of, whatever, S/O, etc. and says: This is what you give a cat who has had struvite crystals. This is what you give a cat with kidney disease. It's all about profit and not about cat nutrition.

How do I know? My vet told me! She admitted as such. She said that in vet school (she graduated less than 10 years ago) they give "zero", she held up her fingers into a big fat round zero, training in animal nutrition based on the science. They teach you what cans to sell LOL!

Go to Feline-nutrition. org. Everything there is based on the science, not what some pet food company told your vet. It's so horrible that now humans think that cats and dogs should not eat what they ate for millenia: raw! They didin't eat cooked cat and dog food, nor dry!

An internist at the world famous Animal Medical Center, a research and teaching hospital, never uses dry food and the research endocrinologist (also a vet) calls dry food "the McDonald's of cat food".
10 Reasons Why Dry Food Is Bad for Cats & Dogs | Little Big Cat
What training do you have? Do you have a degree in feline nutrition? Do you have a certificate that says you have a degree in feline nutrition?

Your choice for your cats is the right choice for you however, do NOT TELL ME that my cats are not healthy because I do not agree with YOUR CHOICE.
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Old 12-09-2014, 10:53 AM
 
2,280 posts, read 4,480,458 times
Reputation: 1851
The vast majority of people who feed dry can afford canned but simply don't know that dry is not good for their cats. It's called "convenience" for many. And they like the idea of saving money but you shouldn't save it on food for your cat unless you are not able to pay your rent! It's about caring, most of the time. Also, You can buy fresh raw for less than canned and feed a healthy meal!

And it is my business. It's everyone's business what cats are fed.

Last edited by Keeper; 12-09-2014 at 03:31 PM.. Reason: quote removed for deleted post
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Old 12-09-2014, 01:55 PM
 
Location: MA
1,623 posts, read 1,712,706 times
Reputation: 3026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Why do you insist upon callous pontification ?

Economics may not be the only reason a person chooses to feed his or her cats dry food. I choose to believe that pet owners and caretakers do the best they can.

Heaping guilt upon people from an ivory tower isn't going to change circumstances that may be difficult, or convince people to adopt your perfect way of life. Think, and put yourself in others' shoes.

FWI wet is better for cats. There are lots of other people that say this not just Martha Anne. Google...
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Old 12-09-2014, 03:25 PM
 
13,768 posts, read 38,044,941 times
Reputation: 10686
OK folks. you do not have to agree with everyone..

Our opinions on a location or issue are just that, opinions. Highly subjective. Personal preferences. Quirks, even. Leave wiggle room for dialogue, others may not see things the same as you, or been there as long as you, and any one of us can be wrong. Pouncing on someone you disagree with runs contrary to the spirit of this board and its members. We are here to help each other.
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:46 PM
 
2,280 posts, read 4,480,458 times
Reputation: 1851
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSD610 View Post
What training do you have? Do you have a degree in feline nutrition? Do you have a certificate that says you have a degree in feline nutrition?

Your choice for your cats is the right choice for you however, do NOT TELL ME that my cats are not healthy because I do not agree with YOUR CHOICE.
I linked to science based sites. Didn't you see them? I base my opinion on these. Please read over my posts: See the links. I am not giving out "my" opinion.

I am always and forever citing what researchers have to say. Please look at what I wrote. Thank you.
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Old 12-12-2014, 03:36 AM
 
Location: California
37,032 posts, read 41,953,569 times
Reputation: 34834
I've always fed both. A spoon of canned food several times a day (too much at a time can cause vomiting) and dry food out 24/7 next to the water bowl for times they are hungry and I'm not around to give them wet food. It seems to work.
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