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I'll re-read since you think I should. I did consider her posts, and my response for over a day, before I began writing it.
Ok I did read them. I think the majority of PO are like you, interested in learning, able and willing to contribute meaningfully to a topic/subject they initiated by posting, but I'm not getting anything but evasiveness and blame-shifting from seaduced posts. And now she's taken her ball and gone home to avoid having to stay on [her] topic … Which was not [even] the topic of the OP.[original poster]
I don't know if seaduced 10 posts, mean they are new to forums in general, or just CD. It took me months to understand the many aspects of forums, but I didn't have difficulty or an aversion to discussing the thoughts, statements, information, or opinions I posted.
I guess I'm tired of PO that can't think critically, and aren't able to intelligently discuss the ideas, opinions, statements, or information they, so casually, put in their posts, especially when they use childish tactics to shift the focus away from the content of their posts. So in that respect I don't mean well, like a young girl, that is just being momentarily recalcitrant, but will fall back in line when chastised.
seaduced accused me of "You can pick apart my words" How is quoting them, exactly, and then asking them to clarify what they meant, picking apart their words. I came up with 3 (possibly wrong) meanings, so I asked for clarification.
How is it harsh to expect someone to be able, and willing, to explain what they mean when they post an uncoerced, unclear statement?
seaduced stated: " But definitely adding a tablespoon of water to the FF is working for us."
I asked: "In what way is it working for you, because your cats will still eat the Fancy Feast when you add tablespoon of water. Because you have medical proof that the tablespoon of water will keep your cat's "urinary infection" from returning, or that it allows you to continue rationalizing feeding dry food, when you have proof that your cat needs more moisture in her diet.
Why won't they answer a direct question, with a direct answer, concerning an ambiguous statement they made in their FIRST post, not a post directed at me (or anyone else, not even the OP)
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This was something new I learned, even after years of researching the dry food subject, while responding to one of seaduced posts. Have you ever seen the dehydration aspect spelled out or explained so clearly? I hadn't. For me, it cut right to the heart of the matter.
"With this decreased response to thirst, cats may ignore minor levels of dehydration (up to 4% body weight). They are able to compensate for this reduced water intake by forming highly concentrated urine. 4 Cats adjust their water intake based on the dry matter content of their diet rather than the moisture content. They consume 1.5-2 ml of water/g of dry matter. This 2:1 ratio of water to dry matter is similar to that of their typical prey. Practically, this means that cats consuming a dry food diet will consume about half the amount of water through their diet and drinking, compared to cats eating a canned food diet."
"While I respect that there are financial situations that may require feeding inexpensive dry cat food, (the women that helped me give Saber his medication when I was a new cat caretaker, is in such a situation, she is feeding 13 cats) I feel there are more people, for whom proper nutrition, once they have the information, just is not a priority. Money spent in other ways, for other things, could be redirected to feeding a better quality of [pet] food, but it isn't."
You're implying that seaduced could spend more money on "better quality" food. Why does it read that way to me? Seaduced mentioned financial reasons, and instead of replying "ok, understandable", you wrote the part in bold. That's potentially insensitive (perhaps seaduced has medical bills...or even just making every day living payments leaves little extra) and presumptive.
Quote:
"To further discuss this issue I would normally use published scientific studies available on PUBMED.com, but it takes time to sift through them, and you aren't going to read them anyway."
That's an assumption (and a veiled insult...I've known plenty of intellectuals who like to throw almighty "science" in someone's face and then acuse the person of ignorance...but you didn't even bother to post the information)...you have no way of knowing if seaduced would read it or not.
Also, the posting about cognitive dissonance was rude. I know that if someone had responded to me with a wall of text (when I had posted very little) with assumptions and implied insults, I wouldn't want to engage with the poster or follow their links. That's basic human psychology (that doesn't merit a citation--most people know this from experience).
Again, I think you mean well, but if you would like to successfully engage with a person who may be seeking advice (not a discussion or debate), you would do well to not make assumptions and not make comments that remotely imply anything negative about the person's intellect. Remember that intent isn't magic, and if a poster is bristling at your response, consider that it could be how you said it, rather than what you said, that caused the offence.
The short version: Vet suggested I add a tablespoon of water over the wet food she loves so much (Fancy Feast) as a way to get more fluids in her. Works like a charm.
Long version: Company stopped making the dry food I usually left out which had a fiber content of 2.0.
I got a different package which had a fiber content of 5.0 . Even though cats get 2 cans of FF a day, one got a urinary infection. Of course, no way to prove but I read (in hindsight) that senior food, hairball and weight control labelled dry foods have a higher chance of causing urinary problems because of their higher fiber content intended to make them eliminate more. Not sure if that's true, maybe just a coincidence but I'm switching to a food with a fiber of 3 or 4 at most. I notice foods labelled for urinary health usually have low fiber like 2.0 so I figure I'll aim for the middle. But definitely adding a tablespoon of water to the FF is working for us.
I also question if the water we give our animals is causing some problems. My vet said filtered or spring water is good. I see some online recommend distilled. I gave them distilled for a few days to flush out their systems but since its missing all minerals I didn't want to do it for too long. Now using Spring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leanansidhex
Good for adding extra water to WET FOOD, only. Feeding dry counteracts the benefits you are trying to achieve by adding water to wet food.
"Distilled water contains zero solutes, so when it enters the intestines, diffusion will actually pull solutes out of the body. Drinking only distilled water can ultimately cause deficiencies in sodium, potassium, and important trace minerals. It also becomes acidic when exposed to air. It may contain higher levels of volatile compounds such as benzenes, trihalomethanes, and trichloroethylene, as well as highly toxic “disinfection by-products.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by seaduced
For my situation... having to go to work in the day and needing to sleep through the night, leaving some dry food out so they don't go hungry works for my family.
I agree the more wet food the better but people have different living and financial situations.
We all love our babies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leanansidhex
You can leave wet food out during the day while you're at work, and leave some fresh, wet food out overnight.
While I respect that there are financial situations that may require feeding inexpensive dry cat food, (the women that helped me give Saber his medication when I was a new cat caretaker, is in such a situation, she is feeding 13 cats) I feel there are more people, for whom proper nutrition, once they have the information, just is not a priority. Money spent in other ways, for other things, could be redirected to feeding a better quality of [pet] food, but it isn't.
Feeding dry food because it is cheaper, is a false economy. By nature, cats eat to fill their energy requirements. Species appropriate, animal derived, protein meets those requirements more efficiently than non-animal protein, so cats need to eat less. That being said, a bored house cat, that has a bowl of kibble available 24/7 will [over]eat out of boredom.
Your vet suggested adding water to your cats wet food (although only a tablespoon) but you see no disconnect in continuing to feed dry food that will have a moisture content of 12% or less, when wet food is generally 75% to 78%.
"With this decreased response to thirst, cats may ignore minor levels of dehydration (up to 4% body weight). They are able to compensate for this reduced water intake by forming highly concentrated urine. 4 Cats adjust their water intake based on the dry matter content of their diet rather than the moisture content. They consume 1.5-2 ml of water/g of dry matter. This 2:1 ratio of water to dry matter is similar to that of their typical prey. Practically, this means that cats consuming a dry food diet will consume about half the amount of water through their diet and drinking, compared to cats eating a canned food diet.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You stated " But definitely adding a tablespoon of water to the FF is working for us." In what way is it working for you, because your cats will still eat the Fancy Feast when you add tablespoon of water. Because you have medical proof that the tablespoon of water will keep your cat's "urinary infection" from returning, or that it allows you to continue rationalizing feeding dry food, when you have proof that your cat needs more moisture in her diet.
Many of the PO in CD cats forum take proper nutrition seriously, and a few stay on CD cats forum to help educate PO that are new to the forum. Most of us go to other [more advanced nutrition] sites, so we can continue our education.
Some of us that are passionate about "cat food" have lost a beloved animal because we didn't know ... what we know now.
Yes, "we all love our babies" … but it doesn't mean we are all equally committed to their well-being
Quote:
Originally Posted by seaduced
My cats are happy and have all lived to late teens, early twenties. Even if I could go to the money tree in my backyard to afford unlimited wet food, they enjoy and like having access to their dry food. I think its stressful to a cat having to wait for food.
leanansidhex:You can leave wet food out during the day while you're at work, and leave some fresh, wet food out overnight.
seaduced:My cats are happy and have all lived to late teens, early twenties. Even if I could go to the money tree in my backyard to afford unlimited wet food, they enjoy and like having access to their dry food. I think its stressful to a cat having to wait for food.
seaduced: Even though cats get 2 cans of FF a day, one got a urinary infection.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
We [finally] found a friend of ours that had been missing for a week …. Life's too short … I'm no longer following this thread.
I came here to read about cats eating Fancy Feast, not some off-topic bickering.
My kitties love the Fancy Feast but not for every meal! That would be too easy.
Don't forget that the 'classic' varieties of Fancy Feast are good for cats with diabetes. (so I have read.)
Not sure who you're referring to, but perhaps you shouldn't be too quick to call someone here a troll. Most of the regular posters here in the cat forum are very passionate about the care & well being of all cats (myself included). Some may come on a bit strong at times, or give advice that someone else may not agree with totally. But that doesn't make them a troll. In the time I've been on this cat forum, I've seen very few posts that would even come close to trolling, and I can't say that about most other forums I visit.
Whoever it is you're referring to most likely meant well, but for whatever reason, didn't come off that way.
I found this when searching "Fancy Feast Addiction." I am really just wondering what people did to curb their cats Fancy Feast Addition.
Background - Neutered Male Cat from the shelter, Orange Tabby, now about 3.5 years old.
We have ALWAYS fed dry food and he ended up with a very bad UTI about a year ago. The vet wanted him on wet food (Science Diet) but he will not eat it. I switched to Fancy Feast (since my parents cats have eaten it for YEARS and all lived to be 15+ years old.) I also give him dry CD, but not much. So, a year later, he has been great, pees WAY more than he used to, but I swear he is addicted to Fancy Feast. He likes just the gravy ones. He wants about 4 cans a day and is starting to resemble Garfield. The vet said to cut him to 2 cans a day, but I'm trying for just 3 right now.
When he wants his food he is TOTALLY annoying (I work from home.) In the evening, when he thought I wasn't going to feed him before bed, he actually attacked my leg and drew blood both times? (I was getting ready for bed and he thought I was not going to give him his last can.) Obviously, we are guessing here, but he is generally not aggressive at all.
So, has anyone had any success weaning their cat off Fancy Feast. And before everyone starts discussing the nutrition, I would like to give him the C/D the vet recommended, but he doesn't like it and it is 2.5 times more expensive. I'm already spending more on his food than our dog (who is a very large golden retriever.) I love the pets, but we do have a budget.
I found this when searching "Fancy Feast Addiction." I am really just wondering what people did to curb their cats Fancy Feast Addition.
Background - Neutered Male Cat from the shelter, Orange Tabby, now about 3.5 years old.
We have ALWAYS fed dry food and he ended up with a very bad UTI about a year ago. The vet wanted him on wet food (Science Diet) but he will not eat it. I switched to Fancy Feast (since my parents cats have eaten it for YEARS and all lived to be 15+ years old.) I also give him dry CD, but not much. So, a year later, he has been great, pees WAY more than he used to, but I swear he is addicted to Fancy Feast. He likes just the gravy ones. He wants about 4 cans a day and is starting to resemble Garfield. The vet said to cut him to 2 cans a day, but I'm trying for just 3 right now.
When he wants his food he is TOTALLY annoying (I work from home.) In the evening, when he thought I wasn't going to feed him before bed, he actually attacked my leg and drew blood both times? (I was getting ready for bed and he thought I was not going to give him his last can.) Obviously, we are guessing here, but he is generally not aggressive at all.
So, has anyone had any success weaning their cat off Fancy Feast. And before everyone starts discussing the nutrition, I would like to give him the C/D the vet recommended, but he doesn't like it and it is 2.5 times more expensive. I'm already spending more on his food than our dog (who is a very large golden retriever.) I love the pets, but we do have a budget.
I work from home, too. Both our fur slugs are gobble-and-spew types, so I have this absurd feeding schedule for them. They each get a couple of teaspoons every 30 minutes in the morning. I keep that up until they lapse into their mid-morning food coma.
They mostly get Fancy Feast (the pate flavors) but they also like canned Friskies just as well. I like to start them in the morning on a can of Friskies as it seems to have a lot of water in it and they rarely drink from the water bowl.
What I have learned about cats is that they don't care how much you feed them as long as you feed them with some frequency. If your cat is getting four cans now, could you cut back to four servings of 3/4 can? I'll bet he wouldn't even notice.
My cat loves Fancy Feast and so what if he's addicted to it ? FluffytheWonderCat has great point about just reducing the portion. I also agree with Seduced, I always leave kibble out reduce stress since he can't hunt for his own food.
The know it all poster Leanansidhex is really not one to take advice from. Pancreatitis, allergies and ulcers are food/stress related illnesses. Here's some of her past posts about her own cats:
"I think she had had food allergies, which showed up as allergens"
"Pancreatitis is Very painful. I had to put a 7 year old kitty, Meeko, to sleep"
"Alfredo basically collapsed one night in December, and their new [strictly mobile] vet made a house call at 10:30pm, no extra charge. He ran a test for anemia while at my house, Alfredo was dangerously anemic."
"The whole of Alfredo's story is in one of my threads, but the final diagnosis was an ulcer"
My cat was diagnosed with the early stags of Chronic Kidney Failure, and the vet said, "no more Fancy Feast. He's now on a kidney medication (Azodyl), and is no longer eating Fancy Feast. It took about a week of trial and error, but he's now on better quality food. He only eats wet food, not dry and never has been much of a dry kibble cat.
The wanted me to feed him a prescription kidney diet, but he wouldn't eat it. It was Royal Canin Renal D & E, and it was nasty, so I don't blame him. All meat by products, and no meat at all. So after a week of trying him out on different better quality foods, I've finally found some that he'll eat, but I haven't been to the specialty pet food stores yet to try what they have.
Last edited by moved; 02-01-2016 at 11:38 AM..
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That would be too easy. 
Fancy Feast Addiction -- is it real??
