U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Cats
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-04-2009, 06:29 PM
 
15 posts, read 147,357 times
Reputation: 67

Advertisements

Just wanted to share this info for anyone out there who has a cat that has been diagnosed with chronic renal failure.

My beloved cat is a 17 y/o male who was diagnosed last July with chronic renal failure. He really started to go downhill about a month ago - not eating, losing more weight, wobbly walking, hiding, losing fur, his eyes were losing their "light" and the vet thought that it would soon be time to euthanize him. Not ready to give up just yet, I found a wonderful website which gave me tons of great information. One of the things mentioned was that when the authors cat "crashed' one of the only things she would eat was fancy feast. I tried it with my cat and OMG!!! He acted as if he had never seen food before. My husband and I wondered what the heck was in this "kitty crack" but truthfully we were more delighted by the fact that he was eating again.

He has since eaten well on a daily basis, has maintained his weight, is sociable and active again, has beautiful soft fur, and purrs away. I have learned to administer subcutaneous fluids at home twice a week and he does not seem to mind at all. He is rebounding so well. I know that our time is precious. He has his good days and bad but he is no longer starving to death. I know that Fancy Feast is not the ideal food but it is better than no food! For those of you with CRF cats, you might find this website very informative:

Tanya's Feline CRF Information Centre

If you have to administer sub-q's, you can learn to do it at home where it is less stressful to your cat and will help them feel better and increase their appetite. Believe me, if I can learn to do a needle stick, anyone can.

I hope this is helpful!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-08-2009, 11:03 PM
 
Location: Some place very cold
5,500 posts, read 19,506,418 times
Reputation: 4209
This website explains how dry food can lead to dehydration and kidney problems. Cats normally like to get water from their food. They are dessert animals and pass a very concentrated urine. I feed my cat only wet food and always mix in extra water.

Feeding Your Cat** Know the Basi
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2009, 04:48 PM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 11,795,996 times
Reputation: 2129
Yes, but CRF is very common in elderly cats, regardless of what they eat. My old boy started it last summer too. We had an episode 2 months ago when he stopped eating. My Vet told me, nooo, it's not time to say goodbye to him, she has a lot of tricks up her sleeve. She prescribed 1/4 pill of an antidepressant with the side effect of stimulating appetite. Only 1 dose got him eating again and he has been fine ever since.

I also do the sub-cu fluids every 2 weeks or so with instructions to do up to every other day if needed. It really isn't hard - I just have to restrain him as he isn't afraid of me like he is at the Vet's.
A B-vitamin and iron liquid supplement and epikitin powder in his food. The epikitin binds phosphorous. I've been feeding him Weruva chicken in gravy which he likes very well. His fur is also glossy and soft again and he is feeling good. He even runs around and plays (which he hadn't done for a long time). I had his tests redone a couple of times and he has gotten no worse so this seems to be fine.

That is a great web site with tons of info on CRF and is very encouraging. I found it very helpful too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2009, 02:11 PM
 
15 posts, read 147,357 times
Reputation: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesaje View Post
Yes, but CRF is very common in elderly cats, regardless of what they eat. My old boy started it last summer too. We had an episode 2 months ago when he stopped eating. My Vet told me, nooo, it's not time to say goodbye to him, she has a lot of tricks up her sleeve. She prescribed 1/4 pill of an antidepressant with the side effect of stimulating appetite. Only 1 dose got him eating again and he has been fine ever since.

I also do the sub-cu fluids every 2 weeks or so with instructions to do up to every other day if needed. It really isn't hard - I just have to restrain him as he isn't afraid of me like he is at the Vet's.
A B-vitamin and iron liquid supplement and epikitin powder in his food. The epikitin binds phosphorous. I've been feeding him Weruva chicken in gravy which he likes very well. His fur is also glossy and soft again and he is feeling good. He even runs around and plays (which he hadn't done for a long time). I had his tests redone a couple of times and he has gotten no worse so this seems to be fine.

That is a great web site with tons of info on CRF and is very encouraging. I found it very helpful too.
Thank you for the info! I'm so glad that you have a vet who knows how to work with this chronic disease and that she encouraged you to find ways to make your cat feel better!

I have found that warming the fluids and using a smaller gauge needle (size 20 1") makes it easier on my old guy. I give treats and feed him when he is done and talk to him while he's getting the fluids. It takes a little longer with the smaller needle but he doesn't seem to mind. I settle him into the bottom half of his cat carrier (top and door removed, soft towel on the bottom) he seems to know not to leave the carrier while he's receiving fluids and will occasionally just lay down.

I have a few questions, if you don't mind:

- What kind of antidepressant did your vet prescribe?

- How did you know when to use phosphorus binders?

- Did you use a vet that specializes in internal medicine?

- What symptoms do you pay attention to in order to determine if your cat needs an increase in his fluid dose?

My cat is on 1/2 pill prednisone every other day for IBD, 1/4 pill Pepcid daily for stomach acid/nausea, 150 ml Lactated Ringers every 4-5 days. He also LOVES CATNIP! When his energy seems a little low, his catnip pillow seems to rev up that motor of his and you can hear him purr throughout the house.

So far he is doing well. He occasionally gets constipated so I'm going to try slippery elm for that. He also seems more quiet, subdued on the days he gets fluid, then bounces back for the next few days. I have been feeding him Fancy Feast mostly, canned salmon and baby food if his appetite wavers and just purchased Wellness to see if he'll go for that. He used to be a 24lb. cat (he's large - my friends used to call him the "ottoman" ) and now he is down to 12lbs. He needed to lose weight but I don't want him to lose anymore. He feels bony but has gained some muscle mass since we started feeding him FF.

I hope your sweet furry companion continues to do well on his regimen. I have read that some cats have lived for many years on sub-q's!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2009, 11:14 AM
 
1,501 posts, read 5,095,251 times
Reputation: 1115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof Woof! View Post
This website explains how dry food can lead to dehydration and kidney problems. Cats normally like to get water from their food. They are dessert animals and pass a very concentrated urine. I feed my cat only wet food and always mix in extra water.

Feeding Your Cat** Know the Basi
There aren't enough rep points for this post! (Won't let me rep you again from another post.)

If people only knew that the info from the Doctor on this page would PREVENT all these issues in the first place...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2009, 02:05 PM
 
Location: home...finally, home .
8,176 posts, read 18,003,689 times
Reputation: 17570
When you said that you fed your cat unconventionally with sub q's , at first I thought you meant sub -sandwiches from Quiznos.
__________________
******************


People may not recall what you said to them, but they will always remember how you made them feel .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2009, 06:31 PM
 
3,634 posts, read 9,229,895 times
Reputation: 6384
We had $1,000 in vet bills last year for one cat and "duh" researched the internet and found that the supposedly good quality dry food was perhaps causing most of the issues. We switched to a low carb and high quality wet food, added Miralax fiber for one meal a day of the two meals they get, and lots of added water. All four cats slurp it up in no time. We call it their kitty soup.

The problem cat now has glossy fur, good bowel movements, no longer a bony spine, clear eyes, and a lot of activity. Our oldest cat also looks great and we further supplement his diet with human pure chicken baby food. The vets talked about CRF, diabetes, etc. and called him unthrifty looking it appears it was just a bad diet. After a week or two of the good diet, his blood values were all normal again.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2009, 05:45 AM
 
Location: USA
1,107 posts, read 2,519,084 times
Reputation: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by hummmmm View Post
Just wanted to share this info for anyone out there who has a cat that has been diagnosed with chronic renal failure.

My beloved cat is a 17 y/o male who was diagnosed last July with chronic renal failure. He really started to go downhill about a month ago - not eating, losing more weight, wobbly walking, hiding, losing fur, his eyes were losing their "light" and the vet thought that it would soon be time to euthanize him. Not ready to give up just yet, I found a wonderful website which gave me tons of great information. One of the things mentioned was that when the authors cat "crashed' one of the only things she would eat was fancy feast. I tried it with my cat and OMG!!! He acted as if he had never seen food before. My husband and I wondered what the heck was in this "kitty crack" but truthfully we were more delighted by the fact that he was eating again.

He has since eaten well on a daily basis, has maintained his weight, is sociable and active again, has beautiful soft fur, and purrs away. I have learned to administer subcutaneous fluids at home twice a week and he does not seem to mind at all. He is rebounding so well. I know that our time is precious. He has his good days and bad but he is no longer starving to death. I know that Fancy Feast is not the ideal food but it is better than no food! For those of you with CRF cats, you might find this website very informative:

Tanya's Feline CRF Information Centre

If you have to administer sub-q's, you can learn to do it at home where it is less stressful to your cat and will help them feel better and increase their appetite. Believe me, if I can learn to do a needle stick, anyone can.

I hope this is helpful!

Aww, bless your heart for caring so much for your kitty. At 17, it's clear that he has had a wonderful loving home. Good luck to you, I hope everything goes well for you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-15-2009, 08:29 PM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 11,795,996 times
Reputation: 2129
Quote:
Originally Posted by hummmmm View Post
Thank you for the info! I'm so glad that you have a vet who knows how to work with this chronic disease and that she encouraged you to find ways to make your cat feel better!

I have found that warming the fluids and using a smaller gauge needle (size 20 1") makes it easier on my old guy. I give treats and feed him when he is done and talk to him while he's getting the fluids. It takes a little longer with the smaller needle but he doesn't seem to mind. I settle him into the bottom half of his cat carrier (top and door removed, soft towel on the bottom) he seems to know not to leave the carrier while he's receiving fluids and will occasionally just lay down.

I have a few questions, if you don't mind:

- What kind of antidepressant did your vet prescribe?

- How did you know when to use phosphorus binders?

- Did you use a vet that specializes in internal medicine?

- What symptoms do you pay attention to in order to determine if your cat needs an increase in his fluid dose?

My cat is on 1/2 pill prednisone every other day for IBD, 1/4 pill Pepcid daily for stomach acid/nausea, 150 ml Lactated Ringers every 4-5 days. He also LOVES CATNIP! When his energy seems a little low, his catnip pillow seems to rev up that motor of his and you can hear him purr throughout the house.

So far he is doing well. He occasionally gets constipated so I'm going to try slippery elm for that. He also seems more quiet, subdued on the days he gets fluid, then bounces back for the next few days. I have been feeding him Fancy Feast mostly, canned salmon and baby food if his appetite wavers and just purchased Wellness to see if he'll go for that. He used to be a 24lb. cat (he's large - my friends used to call him the "ottoman" ) and now he is down to 12lbs. He needed to lose weight but I don't want him to lose anymore. He feels bony but has gained some muscle mass since we started feeding him FF.

I hope your sweet furry companion continues to do well on his regimen. I have read that some cats have lived for many years on sub-q's!
Yes, I do like my vets. She gave me the little needles for the sub cu saying it is easier on him. They also instructed me to rub the bulge of fluid under his skin to disperse it better. I don't think the cat carrier trick will work for my old boy - he doesn't like it. He seems to feel pretty good after the sub cu but at this point he doesn't seem to need a lot of it.


I have a few questions, if you don't mind:

- What kind of antidepressant did your vet prescribe?
Mirtazapine 15 mg/tab. 1/4 pill no more than once every 3 days. (strong stuff!) but only if he isn't eating. He's been fine ever since and has only had the one dose.

- How did you know when to use phosphorus binders?
The CRF web site talked about it and the research that seems to point to phosphates being the culprit more than protein. Meat is full of phosphates, tho so it is easy to see why protein is thought to be the culprit. I just can't get past the problem of not feeding an obligatory carnivore meat. He does not like the renal prescription food that is full of grain (duh, he's a cat, after all). The CRF site also warned about the low meat diets essentially starving a cat and the dangers of wasting in cats who don't get enough meat.

My vet told me that a phosphate binder in the food can be helpful and the research also shows 3 kinds of probiotic (yogurt and kefir) bacteria help cats with CRF. I get the Epakitin from the Vet. She wanted me to buy a pill with the bacteria but instead, I put live culture kefir and yogurt that I've tested by growing a new batch. Between the yogurt and kefir, all 3 bacteria are in those cultures. I put the Epakitin and yogurt/kefir in every meal.

I also searched the food to find low phosphate food. The trouble is that most of them either don't list it or list it as a minimum phosphorous amount so you can't tell how much is in it. Unfortunately, it isn't listed in the food list from the web site. The 2 kinds are Weruva Paw Lickin Chicken listed as a max of 0.17% phosphorus; and Evanger's Holistic Pheasant Dinner for Cats - 0.2% max. He much prefers the Weruva over the pheasant and really likes the yogurt/kefir. I stay away from fish as it has more phosphates than other meat. I also just hope that the can labels are accurate.

- Did you use a vet that specializes in internal medicine?
No, just my regular Vet seems to be pretty knowlegeable. She is sold on the low protein diet that I think is probably wrong based on what I could find on that CRF site and its links.

- What symptoms do you pay attention to in order to determine if your cat needs an increase in his fluid dose?
If he seems down or doesn't want to eat much, then fluids are called for as that should make him feel better. Also, lackluster fur and pulling on loose skin that doesn't spring back are indications of dehydration. My vet said if no symptoms and he seems to feel ok, then every 2 weeks of 150ml or so is enough. Any symptoms of dehydration, give him the fluids up to once every 2 days up to 250ml. She said overdoing the fluids won't really hurt him but more than every other day is a little stressful for him and the skin starts to hurt. So my instructions are to err on the side of more fluids and assume if he doesn't feel good, that he's gotten a little dehydrated. I also add water to his food so he has to take in more water while he eats. His food is like a soup when I give it to him.

Mine has been on a diet for his whole life as he's been a food hound - he wanted to be 24 pounds! Now, he is a little skinny but is maintaining his weight, which the Vet thought was good. He gained back some of the weight he lost from his episode but seems to stay about a pound under ideal weight. I give him as much food as he will eat.

So far, so good.

The vet suggested 1/2 pill Pepsid A/C if he seems to have an upset stomach. I gave him some during his episode and he managed about a tablespoon of food after it. He doesn't seem to need it now. She suggested it as needed rather than as a regular dose. The yogurt seems to settle his stomach pretty well.

I'm doing everything the Vet said except for the low-protein/high-grain/soy diet thing.

Mine loves him some catnip too. I found that CRF site very encouraging with a lot of really helpful ideas. 5 years more would make him a very old kitty. I don't know how long this will last but at least for now, he is feeling pretty good again, so I like that. I'm glad your kitty is doing well too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2009, 12:59 PM
 
15 posts, read 147,357 times
Reputation: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesaje View Post
Yes, I do like my vets. She gave me the little needles for the sub cu saying it is easier on him. They also instructed me to rub the bulge of fluid under his skin to disperse it better. I don't think the cat carrier trick will work for my old boy - he doesn't like it. He seems to feel pretty good after the sub cu but at this point he doesn't seem to need a lot of it.


I have a few questions, if you don't mind:

- What kind of antidepressant did your vet prescribe?
Mirtazapine 15 mg/tab. 1/4 pill no more than once every 3 days. (strong stuff!) but only if he isn't eating. He's been fine ever since and has only had the one dose.

- How did you know when to use phosphorus binders?
The CRF web site talked about it and the research that seems to point to phosphates being the culprit more than protein. Meat is full of phosphates, tho so it is easy to see why protein is thought to be the culprit. I just can't get past the problem of not feeding an obligatory carnivore meat. He does not like the renal prescription food that is full of grain (duh, he's a cat, after all). The CRF site also warned about the low meat diets essentially starving a cat and the dangers of wasting in cats who don't get enough meat.

My vet told me that a phosphate binder in the food can be helpful and the research also shows 3 kinds of probiotic (yogurt and kefir) bacteria help cats with CRF. I get the Epakitin from the Vet. She wanted me to buy a pill with the bacteria but instead, I put live culture kefir and yogurt that I've tested by growing a new batch. Between the yogurt and kefir, all 3 bacteria are in those cultures. I put the Epakitin and yogurt/kefir in every meal.

I also searched the food to find low phosphate food. The trouble is that most of them either don't list it or list it as a minimum phosphorous amount so you can't tell how much is in it. Unfortunately, it isn't listed in the food list from the web site. The 2 kinds are Weruva Paw Lickin Chicken listed as a max of 0.17% phosphorus; and Evanger's Holistic Pheasant Dinner for Cats - 0.2% max. He much prefers the Weruva over the pheasant and really likes the yogurt/kefir. I stay away from fish as it has more phosphates than other meat. I also just hope that the can labels are accurate.

- Did you use a vet that specializes in internal medicine?
No, just my regular Vet seems to be pretty knowlegeable. She is sold on the low protein diet that I think is probably wrong based on what I could find on that CRF site and its links.

- What symptoms do you pay attention to in order to determine if your cat needs an increase in his fluid dose?
If he seems down or doesn't want to eat much, then fluids are called for as that should make him feel better. Also, lackluster fur and pulling on loose skin that doesn't spring back are indications of dehydration. My vet said if no symptoms and he seems to feel ok, then every 2 weeks of 150ml or so is enough. Any symptoms of dehydration, give him the fluids up to once every 2 days up to 250ml. She said overdoing the fluids won't really hurt him but more than every other day is a little stressful for him and the skin starts to hurt. So my instructions are to err on the side of more fluids and assume if he doesn't feel good, that he's gotten a little dehydrated. I also add water to his food so he has to take in more water while he eats. His food is like a soup when I give it to him.

Mine has been on a diet for his whole life as he's been a food hound - he wanted to be 24 pounds! Now, he is a little skinny but is maintaining his weight, which the Vet thought was good. He gained back some of the weight he lost from his episode but seems to stay about a pound under ideal weight. I give him as much food as he will eat.

So far, so good.

The vet suggested 1/2 pill Pepsid A/C if he seems to have an upset stomach. I gave him some during his episode and he managed about a tablespoon of food after it. He doesn't seem to need it now. She suggested it as needed rather than as a regular dose. The yogurt seems to settle his stomach pretty well.

I'm doing everything the Vet said except for the low-protein/high-grain/soy diet thing.

Mine loves him some catnip too. I found that CRF site very encouraging with a lot of really helpful ideas. 5 years more would make him a very old kitty. I don't know how long this will last but at least for now, he is feeling pretty good again, so I like that. I'm glad your kitty is doing well too.
Thank you so much for all the great information.

I'll look into the phosphorus binders since he won't eat anything but the Fancy Feast. I only feed him the kind without gluten. I tried Wellness, he won't touch it. I'll also look into the probiotics/live culture.

I'm thinking I may see if I can reduce the amount fluids I give him because he seems to be doing so well and gets a little quiet the days I give to him which make me wonder if I am overhydrating now that he's been eating so well. His skin springs back easily, his coat is shiny and his attitude is happy/content/sociable.

I received my first order of fluid administration supplies from Brico Medical Supplies - a site recommended by the CRF site.(All you need is script from your vet). The folks there were helpful, caring and knowledgable. I received my order in two days, no problems. The last time I picked up a bag of fluids, IV set and needles it was a little over $35.00 for one set-up. A case of 12 bags of Lactated Ringers from Brico ran me only $32.00. The rest of the supplies were inexpensive as well. This will enable me to continue to help my sweet kitty without having to worry as much about the $$ involved. (He's laying next to me purring as I write this).

Rubbing the fluid area worked great! Thank you.

Hope you and your kitty are doing well!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Cats
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top