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Old 04-29-2011, 10:47 AM
 
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What in the world? Just read that hours before the ceremony the Queen made Prince William a Duke and now Kate is Dutchess with the implication that she won't/can't be called "Princess". Is this correct? Anyone well versed on British protocol please chime in!!!
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Old 04-29-2011, 11:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by oldhousegirl View Post
What in the world? Just read that hours before the ceremony the Queen made Prince William a Duke and now Kate is Dutchess with the implication that she won't/can't be called "Princess". Is this correct? Anyone well versed on British protocol please chime in!!!
I'm pretty confused and tried to understand this myself.

She will be HRH Princess William and the Duchess of Cambridge and 2 other titles.

I suppose he is 'still' HRH Prince William--the title he was given at birth and he is the 2nd in line to the throne. If/when he becomes king she will become Queen Catherine.

Beyond that --I get confused. Camilla is HRH 'Princess of Wales' but out of respect to Diana she doesn't use that title.

That's all that I could grasp. If the media begins to refer to William as the Duke of Cambridge I suppose the matter will be resolved?
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Old 04-29-2011, 11:51 AM
 
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The reason is that William is not "Prince of Wales", his father is. The title "Princess of Wales" is an honorary title (doesn't make the holder a "princess") that is given to the wife of the "Prince of Wales". In the same way, Diana was not actually a "princess", the title was merely reflective of being the wife of the Prince of Wales.

To give some details. The title "Prince of Wales" is always held by the male heir to the British throne. There can be only one holder of that title. There is no regal title "Princess of Wales", for instance Queen Elizabeth II was not the "Princess of Wales" before she took the throne.

The title prince or princess preceeding a persons name can only be received if they are a child of the royal family. Their spouses are not titled "prince" or "princess" they simply gain the HRH designation followed by any other granted titles. Similarly all titles are invested in the royal/noble in the marriage, not the spouse, unless the spouse held their own titles.

When it comes to the children of the "Prince of Wales", they are actual princes, so they use the prince title before their name. Also, they do not take the family name "Windsor", they take their fathers territorial designation, which is Wales. For instance Prince Andrews daughters are the Princesses of York. The children carry the territorial designation until the women are married or the men become invested with their own title.

Williams official title is:

His Royal Highness Prince William Arthur Philip Louis, Duke of Cambridge, Earl of Strathearn, Baron Carrickfergus, Royal Knight Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, Master of Arts.

His father's official title is:

His Royal Highness The Prince Charles Philip Arthur George, Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester, Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Baron of Renfrew, Lord of the Isles, Prince and Great Steward of Scotland, Royal Knight Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, Royal Knight Companion of the Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle, Knight Grand Cross of the Most Honourable Order of Bath, Member of the Order of Merit, Knight of the Order of Australia, Companion of the Queen's Service Order, Member of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, Aide-de-Camp to Her Majesty

Their wives are allowed to use the feminine form of their titles, but do not actually hold the titles themselves. So, Kate Middleton is NOT the Duchess of Cambridge. Her husband is the Duke of Cambridge, so she is referred to as the Duchess. If they were to divorce she would have no title (unless she was granted a courtesy like Sarah Ferguson, who is still the Duchess of York, but that title would be lost if she remarried). This was one of the sticky points when Charles and Diana divorced as Diana held no titles of her own and was not a "princess" despite the medias assertion that she was. Diana was allowed to use the title "Princess of Wales". She would have lost that title if Charles remarried or Diana remarried. Following the divorce she was no longer HRH Diana, Princess of Wales, etc., she was Diana, Princess of Wales. At no point was she ever Princess Diana, that was a media invention.

When it comes to Dukes, Barons and such there is a ranking of lord's in England. The Queen essentially elevated Williams station following the wedding, but was also attempting to draw the distinction that he is NOT the Prince of Wales and Kate is NOT able to use the title princess. Additionally, since he is now married he was granted his own estate and from this point forward will no longer be Prince William of Wales. For instance, his military uniform shows the name "Wales", as of today it will be changed to "Cambridge", similar to how Prince Andrew is Rear Admiral "York" in the Royal Navy. From here forward his title will be:

His Royal Highness Prince William, Duke of Cambridge

Kates official title is:

Her Royal Highness Catherine, The Duchess of Cambridge

Last edited by NJGOAT; 04-29-2011 at 12:50 PM..
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Old 04-29-2011, 12:17 PM
 
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all good titles, but someone definitley needs to be the ayatollah of rock and rollah
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Old 04-29-2011, 12:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by yamota View Post
all good titles, but someone definitley needs to be the ayatollah of rock and rollah
lol, I'm not a royal watcher, just studied British history, but I would think Prince Harry, if anyone, would try to find a way to add that in to his name.
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Old 04-29-2011, 01:56 PM
 
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Thanks NJGoat!!
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Old 04-29-2011, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamota View Post
all good titles, but someone definitley needs to be the ayatollah of rock and rollah
The ayatollah is from Australia
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Old 04-30-2011, 06:33 AM
 
Location: New York
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Titles announced for Prince William and Catherine Middleton

from the horses mouth - so to speak..
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Old 04-30-2011, 06:43 AM
 
1,208 posts, read 1,553,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
The reason is that William is not "Prince of Wales", his father is. The title "Princess of Wales" is an honorary title (doesn't make the holder a "princess") that is given to the wife of the "Prince of Wales". In the same way, Diana was not actually a "princess", the title was merely reflective of being the wife of the Prince of Wales.

To give some details. The title "Prince of Wales" is always held by the male heir to the British throne. There can be only one holder of that title. There is no regal title "Princess of Wales", for instance Queen Elizabeth II was not the "Princess of Wales" before she took the throne.

The title prince or princess preceeding a persons name can only be received if they are a child of the royal family. Their spouses are not titled "prince" or "princess" they simply gain the HRH designation followed by any other granted titles. Similarly all titles are invested in the royal/noble in the marriage, not the spouse, unless the spouse held their own titles.

When it comes to the children of the "Prince of Wales", they are actual princes, so they use the prince title before their name. Also, they do not take the family name "Windsor", they take their fathers territorial designation, which is Wales. For instance Prince Andrews daughters are the Princesses of York. The children carry the territorial designation until the women are married or the men become invested with their own title.

Williams official title is:

His Royal Highness Prince William Arthur Philip Louis, Duke of Cambridge, Earl of Strathearn, Baron Carrickfergus, Royal Knight Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, Master of Arts.

His father's official title is:

His Royal Highness The Prince Charles Philip Arthur George, Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester, Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Baron of Renfrew, Lord of the Isles, Prince and Great Steward of Scotland, Royal Knight Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, Royal Knight Companion of the Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle, Knight Grand Cross of the Most Honourable Order of Bath, Member of the Order of Merit, Knight of the Order of Australia, Companion of the Queen's Service Order, Member of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, Aide-de-Camp to Her Majesty

Their wives are allowed to use the feminine form of their titles, but do not actually hold the titles themselves. So, Kate Middleton is NOT the Duchess of Cambridge. Her husband is the Duke of Cambridge, so she is referred to as the Duchess. If they were to divorce she would have no title (unless she was granted a courtesy like Sarah Ferguson, who is still the Duchess of York, but that title would be lost if she remarried). This was one of the sticky points when Charles and Diana divorced as Diana held no titles of her own and was not a "princess" despite the medias assertion that she was. Diana was allowed to use the title "Princess of Wales". She would have lost that title if Charles remarried or Diana remarried. Following the divorce she was no longer HRH Diana, Princess of Wales, etc., she was Diana, Princess of Wales. At no point was she ever Princess Diana, that was a media invention.

When it comes to Dukes, Barons and such there is a ranking of lord's in England. The Queen essentially elevated Williams station following the wedding, but was also attempting to draw the distinction that he is NOT the Prince of Wales and Kate is NOT able to use the title princess. Additionally, since he is now married he was granted his own estate and from this point forward will no longer be Prince William of Wales. For instance, his military uniform shows the name "Wales", as of today it will be changed to "Cambridge", similar to how Prince Andrew is Rear Admiral "York" in the Royal Navy. From here forward his title will be:

His Royal Highness Prince William, Duke of Cambridge

Kates official title is:

Her Royal Highness Catherine, The Duchess of Cambridge
Sheesh...that's a lot of pomp and circumstance! lol!
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Old 04-30-2011, 10:33 AM
 
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The media is now referring to William and Kate as the Duke and Duchess and sometimes continue to call her --'The Princess'.

Still confused.

From an interview with a member of their community in Wales --I learned that the Welsh don't particularly care--the Prince of Wales wasn't born in Wales, he is not Welsh. If they have a son while living in Wales presumably there will be more interest/regard.

A world that I don't understand.

They will visit Canada this summer and then LA--good for them. The Royals of the US--entertainment industry. I am tired of all of them.
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