Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Perhaps you might want to think of the thousands if Vietnam vets who saw combat, supported combat troupes for an entire year at a time or the families of multiple thousands of Americans killed in action while in Vietnam.
Your support for Hanoi Jane seems to ignore the fact that while her countrymen and women were in vulnerable locations she took the opportunity to pose for pictures and movie type clips that were designed to enhance her profile to the public.
By any chance were you in Vietnam back then? Did you loose a family member?
Why is Hanoi Jane's nickname, that shows the low level of esteem many Americans have for her, so important to you and your "Intelligent discourse terrorizes extremists" point of view?
I would not normally explain myself, but as I made some bold statements perhaps some backup is appropriate.
I have a brother who went to West Point and was in 'nam. I have the greatest respect for him and his service. He is written about in the book "The Siege at Hue." A "troupe" is a cadre of circus performers. Troops were sent over, although some might have been more like a circus, I guess. I didn't "loose" my brother in 'nam. The Army "loosed" him to great effect, and he served spectacularly.
I did not avoid the draft, but with my two brothers already in service, I decided that my social contribution was better served working in a mental institution, caring for people that society had sidelined because of their illnesses. I viewed it as a life-affirming and life-lifting choice, rather than one based upon strife and destruction. Had I hit one of the lottery numbers, I already had my foot in the door of one branch of the service and only needed to confirm with the recruiter. No chickening out or avoidance, but a considered choice. As it was, I feel I served society, my parents, and my own values in a way I never could have in the military. Deal with it.
"Hanoi Jane" is a pejorative. (Look up the word.) When a person is constantly labeled with a pejorative, they are no longer seen as a person but as the icon of an emotional trigger. How many of the positive things that Nixon accomplished got lost in "Tricky Dick"? Once a label is smacked onto a person and used as their name, you steal their humanity. That might be fun if you are the class bully, but it is not the way to edify any group you are affiliated with. I don't support "Hanoi Jane" (specifically the action Jane Fonda took on that one day) - nor do I support anyone who is too lazy or biased to refer to Jane Fonda by that scurrilous name.
Jane Fonda has aspects of a seeker. She showed that she would "think" that she was doing right and throw herself wholeheartedly into whatever was asked of her. She outgrew a whole lot as she progressed on her path. When she first was an adult and was used by her husband Roger Vadim, she was treated as shabbily as a prostitute. She overcame that. She pushed into politics and human rights. The political machines used her. She has persevered under conditions that would have many committing suicide or blubbering while fading into the walls.
I hold a lot of Americans in much lower esteem that I do Jane Fonda - because she makes a constant effort to grow and exert positive influences, rather than being an ankle-biter fed by bullies. I've been around her and I've been around her brother Peter. I'm well aware of the work of both of them in film. Perhaps being around the real individuals for a while, even on the sidelines, tends to show that they are not cardboard cutouts or range targets, but real people that have gone through good times and a lot of bad times and managed to survive.
I can hold her action in Hanoi as a horrible mistake, and not allow that to overshadow all of the positive aspects of the woman, just as I view George W.'s caving to Cheney and Rumtum-tiger and invading Iraq as a horrible mistake and still view him as a decent human with flaws. Even McCain forgave his torturers. Even the Israelites freed their slaves after seven years. Holding such strong hate for as long as is being done is not healthy, among other things.
Perhaps you might want to think of the thousands if Vietnam vets who saw combat, supported combat troupes for an entire year at a time or the families of multiple thousands of Americans killed in action while in Vietnam.
Your support for Hanoi Jane seems to ignore the fact that while her countrymen and women were in vulnerable locations she took the opportunity to pose for pictures and movie type clips that were designed to enhance her profile to the public.
By any chance were you in Vietnam back then? Did you loose a family member?
Why is Hanoi Jane's nickname, that shows the low level of esteem many Americans have for her, so important to you and your "Intelligent discourse terrorizes extremists" point of view?
That's never going to happen because they're sympathizers. And they think we don't know what "pejorative" means, while they can't even focus on the topic without bringing Walter Cronkite and George Clooney into the conversation.
Chuck the preaching. And chuck the this was just one day in the life of Jane crap. This was her life then. And with indignant, bitchy, aplomb, directed at her many critics who won't allow her to revise her past, she's made it crystal clear that it still is.
I would not normally explain myself, but as I made some bold statements perhaps some backup is appropriate.
I have a brother who went to West Point and was in 'nam. I have the greatest respect for him and his service. He is written about in the book "The Siege at Hue." A "troupe" is a cadre of circus performers. Troops were sent over, although some might have been more like a circus, I guess. I didn't "loose" my brother in 'nam. The Army "loosed" him to great effect, and he served spectacularly.
I did not avoid the draft, but with my two brothers already in service, I decided that my social contribution was better served working in a mental institution, caring for people that society had sidelined because of their illnesses. I viewed it as a life-affirming and life-lifting choice, rather than one based upon strife and destruction. Had I hit one of the lottery numbers, I already had my foot in the door of one branch of the service and only needed to confirm with the recruiter. No chickening out or avoidance, but a considered choice. As it was, I feel I served society, my parents, and my own values in a way I never could have in the military. Deal with it.
"Hanoi Jane" is a pejorative. (Look up the word.) When a person is constantly labeled with a pejorative, they are no longer seen as a person but as the icon of an emotional trigger. How many of the positive things that Nixon accomplished got lost in "Tricky Dick"? Once a label is smacked onto a person and used as their name, you steal their humanity. That might be fun if you are the class bully, but it is not the way to edify any group you are affiliated with. I don't support "Hanoi Jane" (specifically the action Jane Fonda took on that one day) - nor do I support anyone who is too lazy or biased to refer to Jane Fonda by that scurrilous name.
Jane Fonda has aspects of a seeker. She showed that she would "think" that she was doing right and throw herself wholeheartedly into whatever was asked of her. She outgrew a whole lot as she progressed on her path. When she first was an adult and was used by her husband Roger Vadim, she was treated as shabbily as a prostitute. She overcame that. She pushed into politics and human rights. The political machines used her. She has persevered under conditions that would have many committing suicide or blubbering while fading into the walls.
I hold a lot of Americans in much lower esteem that I do Jane Fonda - because she makes a constant effort to grow and exert positive influences, rather than being an ankle-biter fed by bullies. I've been around her and I've been around her brother Peter. I'm well aware of the work of both of them in film. Perhaps being around the real individuals for a while, even on the sidelines, tends to show that they are not cardboard cutouts or range targets, but real people that have gone through good times and a lot of bad times and managed to survive.
I can hold her action in Hanoi as a horrible mistake, and not allow that to overshadow all of the positive aspects of the woman, just as I view George W.'s caving to Cheney and Rumtum-tiger and invading Iraq as a horrible mistake and still view him as a decent human with flaws. Even McCain forgave his torturers. Even the Israelites freed their slaves after seven years. Holding such strong hate for as long as is being done is not healthy, among other things.
My troupe mistake was stupid and I apologize for giving you a chance to show your superior mastery of the English language.
Bottom line here is, the people Hanoi Jane offended and hurt are the ones she needs forgiveness from.
With all the thought and effort you put forth for Hanoi Jane I am surprised you did not realize that.
My troupe mistake was stupid and I apologize for giving you a chance to show your superior mastery of the English language.
Bottom line here is, the people Hanoi Jane offended and hurt are the ones she needs forgiveness from.
With all the thought and effort you put forth for Hanoi Jane I am surprised you did not realize that.
Your "troupe" error was no big deal. It did however bring to mind the circus that was going on there and in the country. I've worked hard for years to master the language. It is just part of me and I can no more avoid it than a sculptor can stop sculpting or carpenter stop building.
I think we have fully shown in this thread that Jane could be chosen by G*d for the immaculate conception of the second coming of Christ and she wouldn't be forgiven.
Therefore, to suggest that she needs forgiveness is setting the impossible for her to initiate. Instead, the real bottom line is that many people need to learn how to forgive.
Some never will, just like they don't understand placing events in context or giving up hate as a recreation and method of bonding.
Therefore, to suggest that she needs forgiveness is setting the impossible for her to initiate. Instead, the real bottom line is that many people need to learn how to forgive.
Or the "real bottom line" is that some have to accept the fact that Hanoi Jane will never be respected by a very large segment of the country she insulted.
Or the "real bottom line" is that some have to accept the fact that Hanoi Jane will never be respected by a very large segment of the country she insulted.
Or... the real bottom line could be that if you want to prove the existence of Pavlovian responses, just whisper "Jane Fonda" in a crowded room, then head for the door so you don't get covered with rabid slather.
Or... the real bottom line could be that if you want to prove the existence of Pavlovian responses, just whisper "Jane Fonda" in a crowded room, then head for the door so you don't get covered with rabid slather.
Haters with the head in the sand believe lies that support their hate. Got us into this mess and most have never even served. I did. I read her autobiography. I don't have a problem with her. Like the poster above, she has a done a lot more good in the world than any of her haters so..who would I take in the life raft? Yea.
She was scratched off my list of celebrities after her atrocious remarks in Hanoi!
Exactly. I read the book "Chained Eagle" about American pilots shot down in Vietnam. I also met John McCain. She went over the edge even within the context of an unpopular war. Jane actually mingled
with the very soldiers who shot down American planes and sat among their weapons. The Hanoi Hilton was brutal and inhumane. Many veterans came home with disabilities like nerve damage or loss of joint movements. And then there are the emotional scars. War was hell for those veterans, and Jane was in the wrong.
As for the "age" question to Jane about plastic surgery, Megyn Kelly doesn't look young either. She strikes me as being in her mid 40s but just uses a lot of makeup. The average SEC Network sideline female reporter looks 20 years younger than her. So I don't understand why she had to push about age when she isn't really young-looking either.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
