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Old 01-31-2013, 02:25 PM
 
Location: 92037
4,631 posts, read 9,005,267 times
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I wouldnt count out on BB considering a few factors. For one, we are well past 'revolutionary' stage anymore and the improvements we are seeing are a bit saturated as we live in an app driven>cloud driven market. There isnt too much on the horizon with the exception of HTML5 which will probably change OS/Web integration.

BB still has MANY fans that were just waiting to get something that can be used not only for personal but business. The Storm was a half baked attempt and it looks like so far the BB10 is VERY well thought out with some things that can satisfy old skoolers and add enough of a bite to make older BB users that switched to go back from say, an iPhone.

Our clients in the Middle East LOVE BB as do partners in South America. Hands down the most tuned RF devices on the market. Their high end devices have always been able to get reception just about anywhere it seems
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
11,825 posts, read 13,964,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmoov_groovzsd View Post

edit: I dont understand what you mean about Toronto? Are you talking about the global launch delays?
I just think it is odd that this Canadian company has a press event in NYC. And announces the Z10 will be ready in Canada the next day, but not for 6 weeks (Z10) or 8-12 weeks (Q10 optimistically) in the US.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:14 PM
 
3,740 posts, read 3,966,883 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmoov_groovzsd View Post
I wouldnt count out on BB considering a few factors. For one, we are well past 'revolutionary' stage anymore and the improvements we are seeing are a bit saturated as we live in an app driven>cloud driven market. There isnt too much on the horizon with the exception of HTML5 which will probably change OS/Web integration.

BB still has MANY fans that were just waiting to get something that can be used not only for personal but business. The Storm was a half baked attempt and it looks like so far the BB10 is VERY well thought out with some things that can satisfy old skoolers and add enough of a bite to make older BB users that switched to go back from say, an iPhone.

Our clients in the Middle East LOVE BB as do partners in South America. Hands down the most tuned RF devices on the market. Their high end devices have always been able to get reception just about anywhere it seems
I agree. I feel like the new announcements are not as big as the first, second and third generation of phones.

Now the upgrades are obvious and expected: slimmer, lighter, higher resolution screen, better camera sensor, etc.

BlackBerry will succeed if they can continue to get developers to commit to the OS. It seems as though they have already done a great job given the sheer number of apps available at launch and some of the big names are in there. People want apps and having a large library will help.

In the end though, BlackBerry and Microsoft will have to follow behing Android and iOS based on the dominance of those 2 systems. After all the money(over a Billion in ads alone) and effort Microsoft has spent, they still don't have a sizable market share.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:30 PM
 
Location: 92037
4,631 posts, read 9,005,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
I just think it is odd that this Canadian company has a press event in NYC. And announces the Z10 will be ready in Canada the next day, but not for 6 weeks (Z10) or 8-12 weeks (Q10 optimistically) in the US.
And bingo, its been published ironically
'RIM laid blame for delays on three factors: Regulatory hurdles, custom requirements from different wireless operators and differences between lab testing at each U.S. carrier.'

U.S. delay hampers RIM
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:50 PM
 
Location: 92037
4,631 posts, read 9,005,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAM88 View Post
I agree. I feel like the new announcements are not as big as the first, second and third generation of phones.

Now the upgrades are obvious and expected: slimmer, lighter, higher resolution screen, better camera sensor, etc.

BlackBerry will succeed if they can continue to get developers to commit to the OS. It seems as though they have already done a great job given the sheer number of apps available at launch and some of the big names are in there. People want apps and having a large library will help.

In the end though, BlackBerry and Microsoft will have to follow behing Android and iOS based on the dominance of those 2 systems. After all the money(over a Billion in ads alone) and effort Microsoft has spent, they still don't have a sizable market share.
You make some GREAT points TAM88.

Honestly, in the long run, I really dont think the billion dollar campaign form MSFT will really be seen as a negative or a dent in their piggy bank for that matter. If they didnt do it and expected grassroots movement, in hindsight, if it wasnt growing (which it is) then it would be far easier to say why they didnt spend the money because they are MSFT lol. There is also no question that grassroots is really not MSFTs forte. Kind of a double edged sword.
Just keep in mind, there are many younger folks that havent a clue about MSFTs past reputation or exposure to OS's like Windows 98 or ME.

BB definitely has devs on board because they know that the user base is there. BB was very smart in not getting rid of the QWERTY in the new lineup and said they will never.

I have been in this industry for a long time and one thing is for certain, when a change happens and it clicks, its like a tidal wave and dosent take too long for it to become a short term norm.
Apple concerns me because of this in the long run. Not because they dont make great products, but its SO SO difficult to appease what people are used to while the other companies are innovating and trying to play catch up
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:53 PM
 
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Quote:
BB definitely has devs on board because they know that the user base is there.
I think it's less that the user base is there and more that porting an app to BB from Android requires about one developer's afternoon.

Having the apps is necessary, but it seems like a bit of a hopeful stretch to assume that the apps are there because there's a huge user base waiting to purchase them.

In the end it seems like a bit of a double edged sword. They needed to have the apps, so Android compatibility makes sense. But they run the risk of having a store that's full of quick and dirty Android ports that are unable to take advantage of BB10's features, which begs the question of why one should buy a BB10 device instead of just going with Android.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:34 PM
 
Location: 92037
4,631 posts, read 9,005,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
I think it's less that the user base is there and more that porting an app to BB from Android requires about one developer's afternoon.

Having the apps is necessary, but it seems like a bit of a hopeful stretch to assume that the apps are there because there's a huge user base waiting to purchase them.

In the end it seems like a bit of a double edged sword. They needed to have the apps, so Android compatibility makes sense. But they run the risk of having a store that's full of quick and dirty Android ports that are unable to take advantage of BB10's features, which begs the question of why one should buy a BB10 device instead of just going with Android.
Great points Jason!

As far as my quote, my point was that the BBs devs that were there before sound like they are sticking around (this is important) and the apps that are important to the larger majority of different user groups will likely be there (the social networking apps, business apps). This will appeal to their core base. It would be horrific if they built up this new OS only to alienate their bread and butter as well as relationships with top app developers. That is much more of a strong arm approach and at this point for BB, they are not in a position to really go so black and white internally.
I just dont see BB really going too far outside of their traditional user base to start stepping into the all you can eat categories such as iOS or Android.

BB just never really seemed to be really geared to the homebrew/media hungry/power user that is looking to make their phone into a Swiss Army Knife of sorts and stream from their slingbox or do some other gymnastics on their phone to personalize it.

BBs core users were business oriented first and foremost. I cant tell you how many business users were carrying around iPhones (at the time) for personal use and BBs becuase they 'had to' for work. I think this time around, they are making it ok enough to have the best of both worlds and the IT guys will feel lot better having to perhaps do less work issuing BBs again instead of writing certificates or VPNs for Android or iOS.

I guess just look at the OPs boss and you will see exactly who BB caters to. Seems he has been waiting quite a long time for it.

Last edited by shmoov_groovzsd; 02-01-2013 at 03:43 PM..
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:06 AM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dijkstra View Post

I honestly believe the ship has sailed for blackberry. They may hang around in the background maybe with corporate and enterprise contracts but as far as the public goes, they will be lucky to even hang on to a few percentage points of the market. I see them going the way of Nextel direct connect devices, they were everywhere for a few years and then you rarely see one anymore. What good is blackberry messenger if you have nobody to message?
Blackberry has never hid the fact that they know they are not going to become #1 again. Or number #2. Their goal, at least over the next few years, is to simply become #3, which means beating Windows phones. And that is a very obtainable goal not only in the U.S., but in the World.

As for Messenger; it is probably the best messaging app out there....if and only if the other person has a Blackberry.

I personally believe that Blackberry 10 is going to do better than "analysis's" predict. It might not go flying off the shelves, but it is definitely not going to fall into the coffin, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shmoov_groovzsd View Post
I wouldnt count out on BB considering a few factors. For one, we are well past 'revolutionary' stage anymore and the improvements we are seeing are a bit saturated as we live in an app driven>cloud driven market. There isnt too much on the horizon with the exception of HTML5 which will probably change OS/Web integration.
Let's not BS ourselves here. You know just as well as I do that if Blackberry 10 was the new iPhone, iPhone 6, fanbois and the media would be s******g themselves over "how revolutionary" the phone and OS are and millions of phones would be sold the first day. Look at the iPhone 5 and how little it varies from previous models, how it does not have common features found on other top of the line smart phones, yet, many, many, many people, including the media, went gaga over it.

Blackberry 10 is not revolutionary in most accounts, just different. I can see popularity growing amongst teen agers who want to use the "professional" profile to hide stuff from their parents.




Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
I think it's less that the user base is there and more that porting an app to BB from Android requires about one developer's afternoon.

Having the apps is necessary, but it seems like a bit of a hopeful stretch to assume that the apps are there because there's a huge user base waiting to purchase them.

In the end it seems like a bit of a double edged sword. They needed to have the apps, so Android compatibility makes sense. But they run the risk of having a store that's full of quick and dirty Android ports that are unable to take advantage of BB10's features, which begs the question of why one should buy a BB10 device instead of just going with Android.
Why do they need the apps? The already have 70,000. How many unique apps can there be in order to have an effective market? On Android, through Google Play, if you search for a type of app you will get hundreds to choose from; most of which are complete garbage or clones of another app with a different font color. How many apps do you actually use? And what is the point of having 100s of thousands of apps when 90% of them are krap?
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:49 AM
 
7,249 posts, read 5,706,729 times
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Quote:
Why do they need the apps? The already have 70,000. How many unique apps can there be in order to have an effective market? On Android, through Google Play, if you search for a type of app you will get hundreds to choose from; most of which are complete garbage or clones of another app with a different font color. How many apps do you actually use? And what is the point of having 100s of thousands of apps when 90% of them are krap?
The point, which you apparently completely missed, is that those 70,000 apps exist because it's easy to port to Android to BB10 (calling it porting is really a bit much - it's really just packaging it up). By Blackberry's own admission, 40% of the apps are just wrapped Android apps that are going to look out of place and be unable to take advantage of anything BB10 has to offer. Even with that, there are still big names like Netflix and Instagram that are MIA.

They needed to stock their store with apps, even if it's mostly garbage and largely repackaged Android apps. If they didn't, people would declare the platform DOA. If developers continue to opt for wrapping up Android apps instead of actually developing for BB10, they'll have trouble convincing people to use BB over Android, because in that scenario buying a BB device makes about as much sense as buying a computer running Linux and then spending all your time using Windows in VirtualBox.
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:49 PM
 
1,804 posts, read 6,358,532 times
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A slightly different perspective. I have been on the fence about which, if any, smart phone to buy. I saw the BB ads a few days ago and just a few minutes ago watching the Super Bowl. I was impressed and considered it, "Hmm, something new - this might be for me". But it's not even available to buy!! BB is not Apple - building up this anticipation with a strong fan base. They have lost their momentum, just like the players in the Super Bowl with the power outage.

There is no way RIM should have aired ads in the U.S. and in such a huge way as the Super Bowl without the phone being available. Yes, there is a die hard segment that will prolly get the BB, but there are also people like me who impulsively may have bought a phone tomorrow. And guess what? I can't do that.
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