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Old 10-29-2010, 09:54 AM
 
435 posts, read 731,299 times
Reputation: 75

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara View Post
Speaking out about the treatment of woman in these cultures is not imposing the morals of our country on another. I guess we should have just let Hitler keep going too. Perhaps those who murder or rob others should be allowed to roam free so their morals are not imposed on by others. How about bullys while on the subject?

Like I said before, I've had the opportunity to discuss these issues with several woman from that region and the human abuses that go on there, well it's truly chilling. Before you talk about imposing morals, get the facts.

Human rights abuse is just wrong in any country at any point in time, and only gets corrected when it stops being ignored and swept under the rug.
Feel free to speak out. I am all for it. Just like I have no issue with the woman flying the confederate flag in her home (it simply makes her an @ss because the location of her house). However, sending our troops there in the name of liberty and freedom, who are we fooling? The human rights issues are even worse after we invaded. Human rights' development takes time, it took us over 100 years after end of slavery to start the civil rights movement, and look at all the posters here, who completely disregard even confederate's own history. The war is about slavery, nothing else. The states' rights were sour grapes after the South lost the war. Plus, if you are religious, clearly the GOD is not on the side of the South. North won and justice is always the winner's prize.
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:58 AM
 
435 posts, read 731,299 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techgeek View Post
So by No slavery after 1804 you meant no slavery except where there was still slavery.

Also, if you count the border states (Missouri, Kentucky,West Virginia, Maryland and Delaware) as part of the Union since they did not secede and Union troops were able to move freely through them, the picture is much different.

Kentucky and Maryland were particularly important to the Union Victory. Between those two states in 1860, there were more than 300,000 slaves

It seems that the Union had no problem with slavery if it served their purposes.
Wasn't South out-gunned in the first place? General Sherman literally said there is no way South could win. He did prove his point very well. Winning few battles are really different from winning the war.
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Old 10-29-2010, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Goose Creek, SC
870 posts, read 1,704,823 times
Reputation: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCh View Post
Just like I have no issue with the woman flying the confederate flag in her home (it simply makes her an @ss because the location of her house).
So you think that practicing free speech on your own property is wrong if your neighbors disagree?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCh View Post
look at all the posters here, who completely disregard even confederate's own history.
Not disregarding anything. I haven't said anything historically inaccurate. If you feel differently, feel free to point out my mistake and cite your source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCh View Post
The war is about slavery, nothing else. The states' rights were sour grapes after the South lost the war.
Actually the war started when the North refused to vacate Ft Sumter in Charleston Harbor. Citadel cadets fired on a ship attempting to resupply the position.

The confederate states seceded because of states rights violations. The war started because the Union would not recognize the Confederate government and allow them to govern themselves as they saw fit.
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Old 10-29-2010, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Goose Creek, SC
870 posts, read 1,704,823 times
Reputation: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCh View Post
Wasn't South out-gunned in the first place? General Sherman literally said there is no way South could win. He did prove his point very well. Winning few battles are really different from winning the war.
It's true that the Union was better supplied. It's also true that the Confederacy had no intentions of attacking or conquering the North.

The first shots were fired by Citadel Cadets on a Union Vessel in Charleston Harbor but only because the Union would not leave Ft Sumter. The Union used the attack on Ft Sumter to justify an all out assault on the Confederacy. The war would not have happened if the Union had relinquished its military positions in the South.
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Old 10-29-2010, 10:22 AM
 
461 posts, read 859,070 times
Reputation: 111
There is a big difference to flying an offensive flag or building a mosque near the WTC site and actually keeping slaves and flying planes into buildings. I would never fly that flag and and don't want the mosque there and I am free to protest those issues if I choose to.

(I am not saying the flag actually represents slavery, but that many people have come to associate it that way and find it offensive and for that reason I would not fly it)
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Old 10-29-2010, 10:28 AM
 
435 posts, read 731,299 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techgeek View Post
So you think that practicing free speech on your own property is wrong if your neighbors disagree?

Not disregarding anything. I haven't said anything historically inaccurate. If you feel differently, feel free to point out my mistake and cite your source.

Actually the war started when the North refused to vacate Ft Sumter in Charleston Harbor. Citadel cadets fired on a ship attempting to resupply the position.

The confederate states seceded because of states rights violations. The war started because the Union would not recognize the Confederate government and allow them to govern themselves as they saw fit.
No, it is her freedom. But I can call her an @ss, can't I.

So what states rights had been violated? Constitution actually indirectly forbids secession. According to the Constitution, the federal government can take the rights away from states and outlaw slavery as long as the law going through the legislative and judicial processes in-accordance to our Constitution. There is a reason, federal laws are above states' laws, and when there is a conflict, federal laws are above the states. Not recognizing the Confederate government is not a violation of our Constitution. Yes, you can join the Union, but it is very hard to leave without a war. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, I am here to learn. The South succeeded because she knew the Constitution amendment will be pushed through to outlaw slavery and the Southern states did not have the votes to block it.
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Old 10-29-2010, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Goose Creek, SC
870 posts, read 1,704,823 times
Reputation: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCh View Post
No, it is her freedom. But I can call her an @ss, can't I.
You certainly have a right to your opinion. My question is why do you feel that way about this particular citizen? Is it because she, a private citizen, is exercising her Constitutionally guaranteed right to free speech or because you happen to disagree with her?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCh View Post
So what states rights had been violated?
Read back over my posts for the last few days for a description of the the rights that had been violated. I don't feel like repeating myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCh View Post
Constitution actually indirectly forbids secession.
What constitution are you reading? Amendment 10 says:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

There is nothing in the Constitution about secession so it's the state's right to choose.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCh View Post
According to the Constitution, the federal government can take the rights away from states and outlaw slavery as long as the law going through the legislative and judicial processes in-accordance to our Constitution.
It would, and eventually did, require a constitutional amendment. This requires 3/4 of the states to ratify it. The North didn't have the votes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCh View Post
There is a reason, federal laws are above states' laws, and when there is a conflict, federal laws are above the states.
Yes there is and the reason is, because the North won. Prior to the Civil War this was in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCh View Post
Not recognizing the Confederate government is not a violation of our Constitution. Yes, you can join the Union, but it is very hard to leave without a war.
The Confederacy did leave without a war. They seceded, formed a government and began operating as their own nation. The war was fought because the Union wanted to force the Confederacy back in.
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Summerville
7,934 posts, read 15,040,908 times
Reputation: 1350
Jimmy you do really need to brush on on the Constitution, as Tech said the 10th amendment gave the states the right to choose, the federal government didn't have the votes before the war and the only reason they got it threw after the war was because the only people in office in the south were those supported by the north, read up on Reconstruction. There is a reason why they were called carpetbaggers and it was a dirty word....
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Summerville
7,934 posts, read 15,040,908 times
Reputation: 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCh View Post
Feel free to speak out. I am all for it. Just like I have no issue with the woman flying the confederate flag in her home (it simply makes her an @ss because the location of her house). However, sending our troops there in the name of liberty and freedom, who are we fooling? The human rights issues are even worse after we invaded. Human rights' development takes time, it took us over 100 years after end of slavery to start the civil rights movement, and look at all the posters here, who completely disregard even confederate's own history. The war is about slavery, nothing else. The states' rights were sour grapes after the South lost the war. Plus, if you are religious, clearly the GOD is not on the side of the South. North won and justice is always the winner's prize.
That is the same thing you are trumpeting as the great thing the north did to the south during the war of northern aggression, now who is disregarding history?

I guess that means GOD isn't on the side of Saddam or anyone else that the US steam rolls over with it's great military might either?
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Old 10-29-2010, 01:13 PM
 
1,028 posts, read 2,712,182 times
Reputation: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinajack View Post
if massachussetts can keep electing Morans like barney frank and ted kennedy then lil old SC can keep electing men like Jim Dement and even our lil moron lyndsey graham. But each state is different, we are conservative state and have a right to elect those who represent our views, just as california, ny and massachushytes keeps electing their ignorant lil commies
Being a democrat or liberal does not make you a "commie", that is what is being sold to bully people into believing that you are not American unless you are a republican or tea bagger.

Last edited by pvjd; 10-29-2010 at 01:27 PM..
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