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Old 11-02-2010, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Summerville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Most nations never recognize secession movements anyway. That is why wars happen.

How this relates to the Confederate flag, well, yes, it is freedom of speech. That being said, the reason behind the insurrection is why I don't support or like the Confederate flag.
Once again the Confederate BATTLE Flag, as it truely named, had nothing to do with secession, it was the flag for the troops to rally around on the battle field to keep them from grouping around the wrong flag and getting slaughtered........

Look back around the beginning of this thread I posted the link to all of the flags of the Confederacy....
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Old 11-02-2010, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Whiteville Tennessee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCh View Post
I think it means 10th Amendment is intrepted differently by the Supreme court than you. Since supreme court is given by the Constitution to explain and enforce the Constitution. It decides what the Constitution means and the law of the land. The beauty is that, if necessary, Constitution also allows the other two branches of government to over rule the supreme court. However, it only occurred once in our history. The president literally told the Supreme court to rule his way, or he will amend the Constitution (his party control 2/3 of both houses) to increase the judges to 11 and put his people in it.

I do have a question, since North did not have the vote to ban slavery and I believe it did not ban slavery at the time of secession, then why did the South seceded from the Union?
Southern States felt that thier best interests were not being served by Congress. Northern senators held all the most powerful positions. Then congress decided to place heavy tariffs[$$] on Southern cotton exports and that was the straw that broke the camels back. Taxation without representation. So if they werent being served by the country why should they remain a part of it? Therefor began secession and The War of Northern Aggression.
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OleTomCat View Post
Once again the Confederate BATTLE Flag, as it truely named, had nothing to do with secession, it was the flag for the troops to rally around on the battle field to keep them from grouping around the wrong flag and getting slaughtered........

Look back around the beginning of this thread I posted the link to all of the flags of the Confederacy....
Even if it was the battle flag, it was still about the Confederacy and why did the "Confederate" states want to secede? I know the answer. I just want you to think about it.
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Old 11-02-2010, 02:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Dan View Post
Southern States felt that thier best interests were not being served by Congress. Northern senators held all the most powerful positions. Then congress decided to place heavy tariffs[$$] on Southern cotton exports and that was the straw that broke the camels back. Taxation without representation. So if they werent being served by the country why should they remain a part of it? Therefor began secession and The War of Northern Aggression.
Even if this is true, a big part of secession had to do with slavery. I must remind you that slavery was never a moral issue, but a money issue. It was about the money. Do you know how much money was made from selling slaves. It wasn't just picking the cotton, tobacco and sugar cane. If you couldn't get your market value for that, the slaves could be sold for more. For the South, the economy was agrarian and the planters got dependent on slaves. In fact, you had elite Southerners standing up and openly admitting that the reason for seceding was to keep slavery.
Sources: Confederate Constitution Secession Articles of American Civil War
South Carolina Declarations of Causes of Seceding States American Civil War
Mississippi Declarations of Causes of Seceding States
Georgia Declarations of Causes of Seceding States Civil War
Texas Declarations of Causes of Seceding States
South Carolina's Address to the Slaveholding States

Section 9, subsection 4: "No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed." That was in the Confederate Constitution.

Now granted, Lincoln didn't really like African-Americans and didn't intend to free the slaves right away. On the other hand, if slavery wasn't part of the reason that the southern states seceded, then why were there people feeling like Lincoln would free the slaves? Furthermore, why did Lincoln free the slaves? He did it to keep the British out of the war.

If I was a slave back in those days(and most likely I would have been) what would have I cared if the southern states weren't getting there fair share? I am happy the outcome of the war was the way it was.
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Old 11-02-2010, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Summerville
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Lafitte do realize there were also black slave owners and black slave traders?

I don't have to think about why the southern states seceded, I know, yes slavery was part of the reason, but so was states rights and unfair taxation.....

Slavery would have ended eventually on it's own with the invention of new machinery to speed up harvest and get the product to market faster than manual labor ever could......
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Old 11-02-2010, 03:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OleTomCat View Post
Lafitte do realize there were also black slave owners and black slave traders?

I don't have to think about why the southern states seceded, I know, yes slavery was part of the reason, but so was states rights and unfair taxation.....

Slavery would have ended eventually on it's own with the invention of new machinery to speed up harvest and get the product to market faster than manual labor ever could......
Maybe it would have ended with the onslaught of the machinery, but it would have been very slow. The fact that people were standing up to keep slavery indicates that it would have taken a long time for slavery to end. Mexico ended slavery before the USA did. Canada and other British colonies ended chattel slavery before the USA did, and without a fight. The reason slavery ended in the USA was war-related.
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Old 11-02-2010, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Summerville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Maybe it would have ended with the onslaught of the machinery, but it would have been very slow. The fact that people were standing up to keep slavery indicates that it would have taken a long time for slavery to end. Mexico ended slavery before the USA did. Canada and other British colonies ended chattel slavery before the USA did, and without a fight. The reason slavery ended in the USA was war-related.
Yes and how many thousands died because of it on both sides black and white......
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Old 11-02-2010, 07:27 PM
 
941 posts, read 1,751,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OleTomCat View Post
Lafitte do realize there were also black slave owners and black slave traders?

I don't have to think about why the southern states seceded, I know, yes slavery was part of the reason, but so was states rights and unfair taxation.....

Slavery would have ended eventually on it's own with the invention of new machinery to speed up harvest and get the product to market faster than manual labor ever could......
But the black slave owners/traders were in Africa, so it was tribal warfare/money related, not institutionalized slavery based on race, right? That didn't have any bearing on the Civil War, did it?
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:44 PM
 
26,723 posts, read 21,903,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OleTomCat View Post
Yes and how many thousands died because of it on both sides black and white......
I know people died. That is what happens when a war is fought. People die. The point is, if there was no war fought, then slavery would have continued. Some people say force should not have been used. I tend to differ on that.
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Old 11-03-2010, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Summerville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvjd View Post
But the black slave owners/traders were in Africa, so it was tribal warfare/money related, not institutionalized slavery based on race, right? That didn't have any bearing on the Civil War, did it?
No they were here in the US, and yes they did have a bearing on the Civil War as they fought against the Northern aggression.....

Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms

Some even owned white slaves....
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