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Old 11-03-2010, 01:56 PM
Status: "Days like this I think to myself "I hate living in Georgia"." (set 6 days ago)
 
47,683 posts, read 45,309,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OleTomCat View Post
The last two lines of that article are the most importan:

"In time, within a relatively short time, the obsolete and economically nonviable institution of slavery would have disappeared. The nation would have been spared awesome traumas from which it would never fully recover."
Somehow, I don't believe that. Cuba didn't get rid of slavery until 1888. The machine age would have made slavery obsolete, but when? Not as soon as 1865. Probably around the same time has Haiti. The way I see it, if it wasn't going to end voluntarily and quickly, it needed to end quickly by force. You might not have liked force, but it needed to happen. The one thing that saddens me about Reconstruction is that it ended at all. It needed to stick around to enforce the rights of people to vote, to run for office, to do other things. If it takes force, then that is what it takes.
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Summerville
7,934 posts, read 15,067,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Somehow, I don't believe that. Cuba didn't get rid of slavery until 1888. The machine age would have made slavery obsolete, but when? Not as soon as 1865. Probably around the same time has Haiti. The way I see it, if it wasn't going to end voluntarily and quickly, it needed to end quickly by force. You might not have liked force, but it needed to happen. The one thing that saddens me about Reconstruction is that it ended at all. It needed to stick around to enforce the rights of people to vote, to run for office, to do other things. If it takes force, then that is what it takes.
So how long should we be in Iraq, Afghanistan and when should we invade Iran?

Women had/have none of those rights in those in those countries.......
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:14 PM
Status: "Days like this I think to myself "I hate living in Georgia"." (set 6 days ago)
 
47,683 posts, read 45,309,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OleTomCat View Post
So how long should we be in Iraq, Afghanistan and when should we invade Iran?

Women had/have none of those rights in those in those countries.......
There is a difference there. While I don't condone their policies, those are also sovereign nations. The "Confederate" states were a rebelling territory and the North invaded to save the Union. The Union won and the "CSA" lost. And I'm glad it happened that way.
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Summerville
7,934 posts, read 15,067,633 times
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The Confederacy was a sovereign nation, until defeated by the north, if the south would have won they would have been a nation, just as we declared our Independence from Great Britain in the Revolutionary war, we won now we are our own nation, if GB had one they would have kept us as a colony and history would have been written to reflect us as a rebellious territory......

It is all in the perspective.......

I am glad slavery ended, I am not glad that the war happened.......

My ancestors weren't even here at that time but I see the scars still to this day, as you also can see in the 28 pages in this thread.....
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Southeast
4,296 posts, read 6,263,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvjd View Post
OTC, that seems like such a stretch, since blacks did not have rights or property during the slave period, and it was based on blacks being an inferior race. I have no issue with you as a person so don't take this is a critique on you. I am not disputing the article you posted if it is indeed true, but that certainly doesn't mean the field was level. Black people were't even allowed to own land or aquire wealth, and it was the wealthy landowners who had slaves. Even the slaves who fought in the Civil War did not do so on an equal plain, it was because they were made to do so by their masters so that fewer lives of "importance" were lost, and they weren't even allowed to really have weapons because of the belief that they would revolt. Most of them had to stay and continue to work and be slaves while the soldiers were at war. Historically, it just doesn't make sense.
Slaves could not own property or have rights, emancipated or free blacks on the other hand did own land, held jobs, and in some cases owned slaves of their own. No slaves fought in the Civil War on the side of the South, although there were free blacks who did. Following Pickett's famous charge at Gettysburg, there were a dozen black Confederate soldiers among the prisoners taken by the Union.

Also the only black officers in the entire war were Confederate, the Union did not allow blacks to serve as officers and specifically segregated their units.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Somehow, I don't believe that. Cuba didn't get rid of slavery until 1888. The machine age would have made slavery obsolete, but when? Not as soon as 1865. Probably around the same time has Haiti. The way I see it, if it wasn't going to end voluntarily and quickly, it needed to end quickly by force. You might not have liked force, but it needed to happen. The one thing that saddens me about Reconstruction is that it ended at all. It needed to stick around to enforce the rights of people to vote, to run for office, to do other things. If it takes force, then that is what it takes.
Egypt, India, and other colonies were out producing the South by the time of the Civil War without slave labor or machinery. There is no way a "millionaire" would be out driving a tractor on his field - he gets other people to do it for him. After slavery ended they simply found poor white people or newly freed slaves to do the work (which they did - see sharecropping).

Every country that eliminated slavery did so gradually over a period of several years (as Lincoln wanted to do). As a result there was little resentment because freed slaves were either integrated into society or returned to Africa. In the US, the abrupt and violent end of slavery did cause a deep seated resentment that lasted many years after the practice ended.
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Old 12-17-2010, 12:41 PM
Status: "Days like this I think to myself "I hate living in Georgia"." (set 6 days ago)
 
47,683 posts, read 45,309,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie117 View Post
Slaves could not own property or have rights, emancipated or free blacks on the other hand did own land, held jobs, and in some cases owned slaves of their own. No slaves fought in the Civil War on the side of the South, although there were free blacks who did. Following Pickett's famous charge at Gettysburg, there were a dozen black Confederate soldiers among the prisoners taken by the Union.

Also the only black officers in the entire war were Confederate, the Union did not allow blacks to serve as officers and specifically segregated their units.



Egypt, India, and other colonies were out producing the South by the time of the Civil War without slave labor or machinery. There is no way a "millionaire" would be out driving a tractor on his field - he gets other people to do it for him. After slavery ended they simply found poor white people or newly freed slaves to do the work (which they did - see sharecropping).

Every country that eliminated slavery did so gradually over a period of several years (as Lincoln wanted to do). As a result there was little resentment because freed slaves were either integrated into society or returned to Africa. In the US, the abrupt and violent end of slavery did cause a deep seated resentment that lasted many years after the practice ended.
Even with all of this withstanding, my position of the Confederate flag is ironclad and won't change. I don't like it. I have Southern roots, as do many African-Americans in this nation. It doesn't mean I see the Confederate flag as Southern pride. I don't see it that way. I see it as a bad thing. The fact that my ancestors were enslaved is a factor. Another factor is that slavery was a major factor in secession. Yes, states rights was in there, but it was entangled with slavery. Knowing all of this, it shapes my position on the Confederate flag.
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:24 AM
 
2 posts, read 1,802 times
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some people are offended to just be around Blacks.
So, can we get rid of them?
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:30 AM
 
2 posts, read 1,802 times
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There are some people offended by the American Flag because onced this was the land of the Brits.
Think about that.
Why should we take it down if it is part of American History?
People need to know this and go about their business and leave others alone.
I thought when blacks moved where they wanted that you could no longer refer to a Black or White neighbor hood.It's just a neighbor hood.
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:25 PM
 
Location: On the border of off the grid
3,180 posts, read 2,671,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geechie North View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/ny...gion.html?_r=1

Article about the mosque inside the Twin Towers, and the Muslims killed in 9/11.

Funny, mainstream media (corporate media) is not reporting this: why no Sawyer, Couric?

Well we go back to the Akre's case, plus the fact that our corporations are following the exact same course as did the German Corporations of the late 1920's-early 30's.

See they know:

1. Pople are scared, angry.

2. People are ignorant. Their lives have fallen apart, so they have zero time/inclination to research ideas/'facts'. And they'll listen to whomever speaks the loudest, and with the most anger.

3. Propaganda works, but for it to work, people need a villain; someone different, foreign.

4. If they do not use this tact, then the corporate elites will lose political clout; very few will vote to get the rich richer.

Hence the 'Mosque Controversy', and the other bigotry stirred by media lies.

It's why Krupp, Messerschmidt, et al, backed the Brown Shirts/Nazis.

It's why Corporate America elevated the Tea Party.

So the rag that's not fit to wrap fish in called the New York Times manages to locate one Muslim 9/11 survivor who claims there was some "prayer room" on the 17th floor and this justifies building a garish mosque steps away from hallowed ground where thousands of innocent Americans were vaporized by Muslim terrorists??

Did you take part in "I'm a Muslim Too Day" ? {pinching your cheek}

I have no problem with a Southerner flying the Confederate Flag or the Confederate Battle Flag. How does the Yellow Don't Tread on Me flag get received down there? I know I get looked at cross-eyed up here in NY when I fly mine, but frankly muh dear, I don't give a damn .... LOL!
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Summerville
7,934 posts, read 15,067,633 times
Reputation: 1351
Quote:
Originally Posted by ObserverNY View Post
So the rag that's not fit to wrap fish in called the New York Times manages to locate one Muslim 9/11 survivor who claims there was some "prayer room" on the 17th floor and this justifies building a garish mosque steps away from hallowed ground where thousands of innocent Americans were vaporized by Muslim terrorists??

Did you take part in "I'm a Muslim Too Day" ? {pinching your cheek}

I have no problem with a Southerner flying the Confederate Flag or the Confederate Battle Flag. How does the Yellow Don't Tread on Me flag get received down there? I know I get looked at cross-eyed up here in NY when I fly mine, but frankly muh dear, I don't give a damn .... LOL!
It is called the Gadsden Flag, and most have no idea as to what it means, it was also flown over the Conferderacy.....
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