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Unread 10-06-2010, 10:15 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 4,210,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgirlinnc View Post
Come to think of it though, this is a moot point.

DH would have a fit if I spent $72.00 on cupcakes for preschoolers.

He wouldn't object to spending $72.00, just to spending $72.00 on THAT. This would not be a good value.

So it would be me back to the Betty Crocker mix and we would have no pretty Hello Kitties on our cupcakes.
BUT if DH was making about 25-30% more per year (Real Wages have dropped by that much since we became a free trade nation in 1973) he probably would let ya spring for the more expensive stuff.

If he understood that it would be helping his customers better afford his stuff.
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Unread 10-06-2010, 10:22 PM
 
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Well, great discussion.

Thanks.

One last thing:

It's a well-known fact of life that in the USofA (2010 version) that to insure to 1 degree of confidence (95%) that your money is truly staying within the national confines, it is necessary to restrict your purchases to either:

A. Obtaining the services of a hooker. OR

B. Buying some dynamite oregano.

Anything else is a pure gamble.
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Unread 10-06-2010, 10:24 PM
 
435 posts, read 421,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geechie North View Post
That was the theory advanced by David Ricardo. But, as has been pointed-out, David never considered head-to-head competition between workers making dollars per hour and those making cents per week, as he's been farting dust since the mid-19th century.

Besides, I liked his grand-nephew, Ricky, so much better.

And, anyway, that's all Classical Economics, which was shown to be dead-wrong by the 3-'s depression.
Come on Geechie, the current school of economic theory is called neo-classical. Classical to Fisher to Keynesian to now neo-classical. It is not dead yet. Ricardo theory don't have to consider wage differences because it makes no assumption on fixed capital and simple let wage advantage count as part of production advantage or specialization which is more realistic.
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Unread 10-06-2010, 10:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCh View Post
Come on Geechie, the current school of economic theory is called neo-classical. Classical to Fisher to Keynesian to now neo-classical. It is not dead yet. Ricardo theory don't have to consider wage differences because it makes no assumption on fixed capital and simple let wage advantage count as part of production advantage or specialization which is more realistic.
Neo-Classical Economics got us a 'Neo-Classical' Depression (2007-????)

Maynard Keynes was far closer to reality, and our history shows that.

Anyway, when 'Production advantage is solely determined by Wage Advantage, then it is perversion of Ricardo's theory of Competitive Advantage.'

Krugman said that.

And he believes that the US Economy can function sans Middle Class- some 'Liberal'!

Gotta run.
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Unread 10-07-2010, 01:21 AM
 
Location: Summerville
7,925 posts, read 8,262,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geechie North View Post
And that has to do with 20-cent per hour labor and zero environmental regs.

Slap a 100% tariff on the imported stuff and watch California become a supplier.
You keep using 0.20/hour it is not that low, it is almost double that in the lowest provinces and more than three times that in the higher ones....

Guangdong Province increased its minimum wage on 1 September 2006 and was split into five categories. The highest is 780 per month or 4.66 (~US$0.68) an hour (in Guangzhou city). The lowest is 450 per month or 2.69 (~US$0.39) an hour.
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Unread 10-07-2010, 01:36 AM
 
8,889 posts, read 4,243,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgirlinnc View Post
Going back to the food example, let me say that 95% of what I buy at WM is groceries/everyday healthcare products (shampoo, etc.)

Looking at the national brands I buy, I see Kelloggs, General Mills, Coca-Cola, beer/wine (usually domestic), Florida Naturals OJ, Welchs, Heinz, Colgate, Nexxus, etc. These are AMERICAN made products. Any argument about China is null and void in this situation.

As far as produce, I buy some at WM if I'm in a hurry, but I usually prefer to get it at my local fruit stand or farmers' market.

I do not buy linens at WM, but my understanding is that cheaply made linens/towels are usually made in India or Pakistan, sometimes Mexico. But not China. The clothes, maybe, but I don't buy any of our clothes at WM. I do buy my daughters' clothes at Gymboree though, so I guess we're responsible for all the slave labor over there because I like my little girl to look cute.


Walmart isn't the only place one shops and merchandise is made in China, Taiwan and other countries. Check out Belk's website ... they include in the Overview of each item where it is manufactured. Here is a Oscar de la Renta robe ... $82.00 ... Made in China ... the gown to match is $78.00 ... Made in China. One can look throughout the Belk website and find very few items Made in the USA. You can check out the Ralph Lauren linens at Belk, they are made in India & Bahrain. LOL

Oscar de la Renta Antique Bouquet Robe - Belk.com

I don't understand why Walmart gets bashed for this when Target, Belk, Macy's, Dillards, KMart ...Nordstrom just indicates "Imported." One may still shop at Mom & Pop's but there is no guarantee their merchandise is made in the USA, yes their profit stays here. Lou Dobbs wrote an interesting book, Exporting America and he includes a list of companies that have outsourced including Kellogg, Kraft Foods, Hershey ...

Exporting America

Not much is made in the USA anymore:

Still Made in USA.com - American-Made Products for Home and Family

My husband does our grocery shopping at Walmart, but no meat products. Soap, dish detergent, paper towels, loaf bread, canned goods, shampoo ... their pricing is cheaper on name brand products. He started shopping there when the bottom dropped out of the economy.
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Unread 10-07-2010, 05:15 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
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This debate can go on and on.......but the most important thing to remember is this.
A nation who makes nothing is destined to fail and implode. We are seeing it every day.

Rome is a prime example of this.

It is up to us as consumers to change that but most don't have the discipline or guts to do so.
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Unread 10-07-2010, 07:04 AM
 
4,465 posts, read 4,210,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OleTomCat View Post
You keep using 0.20/hour it is not that low, it is almost double that in the lowest provinces and more than three times that in the higher ones....

Guangdong Province increased its minimum wage on 1 September 2006 and was split into five categories. The highest is 780 per month or 4.66 (~US$0.68) an hour (in Guangzhou city). The lowest is 450 per month or 2.69 (~US$0.39) an hour.
Actual rate varies, Tom:

Chinese self-reported stats re: wages are every bit as accurate as are their denials of human rights abuses.

Slave labor is the modal rate- no pay, the workers are kids sold to companies by their families.

The 20-cent rate comes via Dylan Ratigan of CNBC and MSNBC.

But even if we use a 'fat-city' 70 cents an hour rate (we know it's far less than $1.00 an hour, because the Mexican maquiladoras pay that rate, and they cannot compete- hence the illegal surge to the US, at least until our depression), then do your Algebra I:

X (number of wigits) made at 70 cents will be more or less expensive than the same X (number, again) made at even $4.00 an hour?

I won't insult your intellect, as you know the answer.

So, to compete with essentially slave labor, we must also become a nation of slave laborers.

Which this depression is all about.
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Unread 10-07-2010, 07:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromekitty View Post
Rome is a prime example of this.
I have a friend (former collegue) who knows way more about History than I do.

She is constantly reminding her students that in Rome's final years, the people were convinced that wheat from foreign producers was superior to wheat from the Italian peninsula.
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Unread 10-07-2010, 07:13 AM
 
4,465 posts, read 4,210,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaWoman View Post
Oscar de la Renta Antique Bouquet Robe - Belk.com

I don't understand why Walmart gets bashed for this when Target, Belk, Macy's, Dillards, KMart ...Nordstrom just indicates "Imported." One may still shop at Mom & Pop's but there is no guarantee their merchandise is made in the USA, yes their profit stays here. Lou Dobbs wrote an interesting book, Exporting America and he includes a list of companies that have outsourced including Kellogg, Kraft Foods, Hershey ...

.
Lou Dobbs is a blatant racist who blames the Chinese, Mexican (etc) workers for our plight when the real culprits are our own corporations who have bought our political process.

Wal-Mart needs the blame because:

A, They are the biggest.

B. They are the ones who began this race to the bottom by mass-imporatations of Chinese goods which ran much of our industry overseas.
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