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I do pay attention .. the fact that the current ruling is that of poker being a game of skill and not chance (and yes .. I know all too well about the ruling and current standing of that) has no bearing on the fact that dice and cards are in fact devices used in gambling and therefore are illegal to own.
The way the law reads it is FILLED with interpretative aspects and is one of the many reasons poker is still played in back rooms and not openly advertised or played.
The law also alows for the play of whist and bacammon which require cards and or dice.....
The part that refers to devices was added in the 1990's for video poker machines since devices for gambling did not exist back when the original law was written. Like I said before context.
de·vice/diˈvīs/ Noun:
A thing made or adapted for a particular task, esp. a mechanism or electronic instrument.
This section of the law that is listed gives the list of devices licenses and other information that pertain to the law:
SECTION 12-21-2720. License for coin-operated devices or machines; license tax; maximum municipal license charges; special one-time interim fees.
(A) Every person who maintains for use or permits the use of, on a place or premises occupied by him, one or more of the following machines or devices shall apply for and procure from the South Carolina Department of Revenue a license effective for two years for the privilege of making use of the machine in South Carolina and shall pay for the license a tax of fifty dollars for each machine in item (1), two hundred dollars for each machine in item (2), and four thousand dollars for each machine in item (3):
(1) a machine for the playing of music or kiddy rides operated by a slot or mechanical amusement devices and juke boxes in which is deposited a coin or thing of value. A machine on which an admissions tax is imposed is exempt from the C.O.D. license provisions of this section.
(2) a machine for the playing of amusements or video games, without free play feature, or machines of the crane type operated by a slot in which is deposited a coin or thing of value and a machine for the playing of games or amusements, which has a free play feature, operated by a slot in which is deposited a coin or thing of value, and the machine is of the nonpayout pin table type with levers or "flippers" operated by the player by which the course of the balls may be altered or changed. A machine required to be licensed under this item is exempt from the license fee if an admissions tax is imposed.
(3) a machine of the nonpayout type, or in-line pin game, operated by a slot in which is deposited a coin or thing of value except machines of the nonpayout pin table type with levers or flippers" operated by the player by which the course of the balls may be altered or changed.
(B) No municipality may limit the number of machines within the boundaries of the municipality. A municipality may by ordinance impose a license fee on machines licensed pursuant to subsection (A)(3) of this section in an amount not exceeding ten percent of three thousand six hundred dollars of the license fee imposed pursuant to subsection (A) for the equivalent license period.
(C) The owner or operator of any coin-operated device subject to licensing under Section 12-21-2720(A)(3) and which has multi-player stations, shall purchase a separate license for each such station.
(D) A county may by ordinance impose a license fee on machines licensed pursuant to subsection (A)(3) of this section located in an unincorporated area of the county in an amount not exceeding ten percent of three thousand six hundred dollars of the license fee imposed pursuant to subsection (A) for the equivalent license period. (E) The Department of Revenue is authorized to assess an additional fee of fifty dollars on each Class Two coin-operated machine license authorized in this section. These funds must be collected by the Department of Revenue and sent to the State Law Enforcement Division to offset the cost of video gaming enforcement. The State Law Enforcement Division shall retain, expend, and carry forward these funds.
The law also alows for the play of whist and bacammon which require cards and or dice.....
The part that refers to devices was added in the 1990's for video poker machines since devices for gambling did not exist back when the original law was written. Like I said before context.
de·vice/diˈvīs/ Noun:
A thing made or adapted for a particular task, esp. a mechanism or electronic instrument.
I will concede that there is a definition for device under the law but it does leave wiggle room to be persecuted under the law for such devices as cards and dice. Most notably due to the fact that people have been arrested and cases are currently active because of this law they were prosecuted under (Section 16-19-40 of the SC Penal Code)
Surely you are not one of those people that thinks 'device' can only mean a complicated mechanical machine with moving parts and powered etc. You need to research the whole definition of a device ... it is like saying a lever is not a machine.
I won't even get into how many times dice are referenced as "gambling devices" or "devices used in gambling" pretty much EVERYWHERE you look.
Since the beginning of time and all the way back to some of the first sets of dice discovered in recorded history, they have been used as gambling implements.
Context infers room for interpretation. Especially if the before and after settings have been changed or removed. Thanks for making my point.
Not to mention the fact that anyone selling playing cards has to turn in an invoice and pay specific taxes/fees on said items. Why would that be?
Closer to where the laws for these kind of things SHOULD be but still not making it possible to have a public poker game.
Definition of DIE
1 plural dice: a small cube marked on each face with from one to six spots and used usually in pairs in various games and in gambling by being shaken and thrown to come to rest at random on a flat surface —often used figuratively in expressions concerning chance or the irrevocability of a course of action <the die was cast>
For all your rebuttles the fact remains you still can't openly play or gamble due SPECIFICALLY to these archaic laws the powers that be refuse to remove or update.
Ultimately Section 16-19-40 of the SC Penal Code declares playing any games using cards or dice unlawful with the SPECIFIC exemptions noted (whist, backgammon etc).
Your Yahtzee game is illegal. Your UNO game is illegal. Your mother's bridge club is illegal. Your Monopoly game is illegal.
All because of some backwards, archaic law left on the books by SC lawmakers.
QUICK REFERENCE TO SOUTH CAROLINA'S
UNLAWFUL GAMES AND BETTING LAWS
Who: Any person What: Any game with cards or dice When: Anytime, especially the day of the Sabbath Where: In any tavern, inn, liquor store, or in any house used as a place of gaming, barn, kitchen, stable or other outhouse, street, highway, open wood, race fi eld or open place
Last edited by bulldogrsp61; 10-17-2011 at 03:33 PM..
People may ask you if you have a church yet and may invite you to visit their church....but that is friendly, social gesture. If they didn't like you, they probably wouldn't ask. I don't understand why some take offense at being asked that.
Now with that said, I DO understand being offended or annoyed if someone becomes pesty and persistent in trying to talk you into going to their church (which I had happen one time). I love the Lord and love going to church and church events/activities, but I don't push my beliefs on others. If someone asks if you go to church and you don't(and don't want to), just tell them "no, I'm not a churchgoer". If they invite you to their church and you don't care to attend, just tell them, "No thank you". But if they keep pestering you about it, I would probably just distance myself from them and ask them not to bring it up again. Religious freedom gives us the right to worship or not to worship.
Exactly. It isn't really offensive but in some areas religion/church is like politics...it is more personal and isn't really talked about especially the first time you meet someone. It is an unspoken rule that asking where someone goes to church is off limits (for the most part). There is nothing wrong with either way, I just wanted to share the regional differences since he was asking about how religious the area was. Personally, I've NEVER had someone pester me....and I've had friends that are Pastors. It is very much a friendly gesture and not meant as judgement by the person who is asking. When you are not used to it, it feels a bit jarring at first. I was just sharing what might he may experience that would feel different.
We moved to the south from Toronto, Canada in 1997. We have moved into three different homes -- two in the Atlanta area and one here in Charleston area. Every single time -- one of the FIRST questions we are always asked -- what church do you go to? Sure, sure -- it is meant as a friendly gesture but the assumption that everyone belongs to a church is very much a southern phenomena.There aren't many folks that don't go to any church.
We moved to the south from Toronto, Canada in 1997. We have moved into three different homes -- two in the Atlanta area and one here in Charleston area. Every single time -- one of the FIRST questions we are always asked -- what church do you go to? Sure, sure -- it is meant as a friendly gesture but the assumption that everyone belongs to a church is very much a southern phenomena.There aren't many folks that don't go to any church.
So it sounds like you found it odd at first, as well? I totally get how it is regional but at first I was surprised by the question (can't really say offended). Not sure if you read my original post on it but she was just responding to my comment. I do think it is a kind gesture but it isn't a gesture that other regions share, necessarily. It took some getting used to for me.
So it sounds like you found it odd at first, as well? I totally get how it is regional but at first I was surprised by the question (can't really say offended). Not sure if you read my original post on it but she was just responding to my comment. I do think it is a kind gesture but it isn't a gesture that other regions share, necessarily. It took some getting used to for me.
No, jbburke, I wasn't responding specifically to your comment and was surprised to see you thought I was. I actually hadn't read your comment yet, when I first commented....but seeing mine under yours I can see how you thought I was referring to you. I was just adding my 2 cents to the first few posts.
I actually grew up in a very small farm town in NW OH and church was a big thing there too. Everyone went to one of our 4 churches and if someone new moved in, people would invite them to visit their church. I think that churchgoing isn't limited to just the South (even though we are in the Bible Belt), but is also predominant in small, rural midwestern towns too. In our town in OH, stores didn't even open until after noon on Sundays because there was no one around to shop!
No, jbburke, I wasn't responding specifically to your comment and was surprised to see you thought I was. I actually hadn't read your comment yet, when I first commented....but seeing mine under yours I can see how you thought I was referring to you. I was just adding my 2 cents to the first few posts.
I actually grew up in a very small farm town in NW OH and church was a big thing there too. Everyone went to one of our 4 churches and if someone new moved in, people would invite them to visit their church. I think that churchgoing isn't limited to just the South (even though we are in the Bible Belt), but is also predominant in small, rural midwestern towns too. In our town in OH, stores didn't even open until after noon on Sundays because there was no one around to shop!
We were definitely on the same wave length..... I totally agree with you. I think it is a kind gesture on the part of those who ask.
Another sign of the popularity of churches -- no public meetings or planned activities on Wednesday (for the most part -- yes some sporting groups end up using Wednesdays but schools, municipal offices, etc. avoid Wednesdays as much as possible).
I know this is straying a bit from the original topic, but when I was growing up, the school cafeterias only served fish on Fridays - no other kind of meat. This was due to the large Euro-Catholic population in our area. So....on Fridays all the Catholic churches had fish fries and the only meat served in schools on Fridays was fish. I was Lutheran and didn't like fish, so I always packed my lunch on Fridays! LOL
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. I totally agree with you. I think it is a kind gesture on the part of those who ask.
