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Old 01-31-2015, 10:36 AM
 
259 posts, read 451,808 times
Reputation: 176

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Agreed, the surrounding area is rundown which does not help the
malls image. The knife wielding robbery inside the mall this week sure doesn't help either.

That being said, I have never felt uneasy going to Target or the
movies. None of the stores in Citadel appeal to me but I am not afraid
to go in there.

There is so much unused parking lot desert, constructing infill apts and retail around a redone Citadel Mall could help to improve the whole area. There would be appeal for residents to walk and shop at target or stroll to the movies.
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Old 01-31-2015, 02:39 PM
 
Location: TPA
6,476 posts, read 6,382,614 times
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^ Yep the shopping centers and out parcels around the mall area look nice and modern, but then you look at Citadel and its a big tan box sitting on an empty, ugly, near vacant concrete desert. Even worse when you see it on Google Maps.

Thats how the Greenville Mall site looked 10 years ago, it was horrendous, but they knew it was a diamond in the rough, so they acted, found a developer, got the ball rolling and now its crazy nice. They have Cabelas, Dave and Busters, Cheddars, Costco, Yardhouse, Norstrom Rack, Jared, Hu Hot, a hotel, Golfsmith, and other stores and restaurants exclusive to SC.

The Citadel Mall site is bigger than the Magnolia site, so theres even more potential here. I dont know why im so passionate about it, I guess I just know how long its sat their aging, and how much potential it has. Northwoods was about to be in the same boat, but they did what they had to and its booming again. I swear Citadel can become a top entertainment complex in SC again, and Charleston (which is usually behind Greenville and Columbia, and starting to be Myrtle Beach, in getting new retail) can land many exclusive new stores and restaurants, and WA residents wont have to keep using gas running to NC and Mt P anymore. And reversely, people outside if WA will be flying down using the center. I just hope we hear something soon and not in like 2020. The potential is all there and its win for Charleston and the lowcountry.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
5,615 posts, read 14,737,285 times
Reputation: 2555
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMcKelvin View Post
Still waiting on that bike lane...while I don't consider myself a hipster I WAS a young-ish downtown resident recently looking for a new place to rent, and WA (not even inner, I'm talking Savage Road area) didn't make the cut precisely for that reason for me....I enjoy biking to work but I don't enjoy biking over the Ashley River. If and when it's ever completed I think you will see a gradual influx of "Hipsters" centering around the Avondale area (though I admittedly have very little knowledge of WA to presume where such a gentrification wave could begin, this seems like the logical locale).
I go over the river daily without any trouble - I ride from home, along the bottom of downtown, over the bridge and usually turn around somewhere about Shem Creek or maybe a mile past that. An actual bike lane instead of the southbound sidewalk would be nice though.

So far as gentrification goes, AFAIK the Avondale area is basically done. There's no turning around left to do. Keeping it going up Magnolia and Playground Road towards the area behind Home Team would be great.
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Old 02-03-2015, 03:10 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
7,102 posts, read 5,930,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5 View Post
^ Yep the shopping centers and out parcels around the mall area look nice and modern, but then you look at Citadel and its a big tan box sitting on an empty, ugly, near vacant concrete desert. Even worse when you see it on Google Maps.

Thats how the Greenville Mall site looked 10 years ago, it was horrendous, but they knew it was a diamond in the rough, so they acted, found a developer, got the ball rolling and now its crazy nice. They have Cabelas, Dave and Busters, Cheddars, Costco, Yardhouse, Norstrom Rack, Jared, Hu Hot, a hotel, Golfsmith, and other stores and restaurants exclusive to SC.

The Citadel Mall site is bigger than the Magnolia site, so theres even more potential here. I dont know why im so passionate about it, I guess I just know how long its sat their aging, and how much potential it has. Northwoods was about to be in the same boat, but they did what they had to and its booming again. I swear Citadel can become a top entertainment complex in SC again, and Charleston (which is usually behind Greenville and Columbia, and starting to be Myrtle Beach, in getting new retail) can land many exclusive new stores and restaurants, and WA residents wont have to keep using gas running to NC and Mt P anymore. And reversely, people outside if WA will be flying down using the center. I just hope we hear something soon and not in like 2020. The potential is all there and its win for Charleston and the lowcountry.
As much of an eyesore as it is. Savannah Hwy is still PRIME real estate and that corner is just about as prime as anything in town. I expect it and the area to be revitalized soon. I would like to see a complex put in like they put in Pooler, GA recently that featured a theatre, bowling alley, laser tag, a bar and grill, several lunch spots etc. Or perhaps something in regards to housing. Apartments perhaps.
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:08 PM
 
5,230 posts, read 6,152,985 times
Reputation: 3111
Quote:
Originally Posted by scuba steve View Post
So far as gentrification goes, AFAIK the Avondale area is basically done. There's no turning around left to do. Keeping it going up Magnolia and Playground Road towards the area behind Home Team would be great.
That is my hood & I think the perception that it will 'up and come' is based on aesthetics more than actual values. People always drive through & call realtors when a house is listed assuming they are $90,000 to $120,000 houses. One or two realtors have mentioned how frustrating it is because middle aged couples seem to often be the culprits and assume they have discovered a cheap neighborhood 2-3 lights from downtown & want to buy in place of renting for their kids at CoC. They are usually pretty shocked at the pricing. My neighbor sold for 405 a few years ago but literally had someone try to offer her 150 because her house was nicer than the others. That's when the couple realized FSBO wasn't quite working for them since no one was screening to make sure buyers knew where/at what they are looking.

With prices what they are I think most of us are doing upgrades/improvements a project at a time unless they are financing/saving for master bath & kitchen additions. I really only remember one house being bought & immediately remodeled. And it ended up being a hideous addition that double the size of the house in the most asinine possible manner.

The truth is someone with an extra 100k or more to throw at house will typically move up the neighborhood ladder rather than buy & add on or buy then upgrade.

The one big thing I foresee is that when they finish the bike lane and finish 526 I think prices will go up. Being able to bike/jog into downtown will really make us feel more like the city as opposed to similar to it with the bars/restaurants/shops. And when 61 frees up a little from 526's completion I think you'll see the areas past Olde Town road on 61 become more attractive since they won't be as miserably traffic blocked.
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
5,615 posts, read 14,737,285 times
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I was thinking the same thing about traffic this morning. I live in Northbridge Terrace but am down by Avondale and that part of hwy 17 all the time. The closer in area reminds me of Ballard back in Seattle. It was once affordable, smaller houses but then really turned around and prices went nuts, but that's somewhat due to the fact that it's very close to the north end of downtown. Inner WA (inside 526) in my opinion has a lot of similarities to this.

With what they've been selling for in Avondale/Moreland it doesn't surprise me that people aren't ready to drop $100K into the place. A lot of what I've seen at least looks more or less taken care of (or flipped). We put about that much into ours since moving here, but we liked the location and wanted to be able to rebuild in a particular design style that more or less does not exist in the area. We could have bought up, so to speak, but the area/lot size and other features are hard to come by. I understand that's far from the norm though.
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Old 12-12-2015, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Charleston, SC - west of the Ashley
1 posts, read 1,231 times
Reputation: 14
Exclamation Citadel Mall's Revitalization

Quote:
Originally Posted by driftaway123 View Post
Agreed, the surrounding area is rundown which does not help the
malls image. The knife wielding robbery inside the mall this week sure doesn't help either.

That being said, I have never felt uneasy going to Target or the
movies. None of the stores in Citadel appeal to me but I am not afraid
to go in there.

There is so much unused parking lot desert, constructing infill apts and retail around a redone Citadel Mall could help to improve the whole area. There would be appeal for residents to walk and shop at target or stroll to the movies.
A few residents of West Ashley got together and started a Facebook group called "Support CITADEL MALL's Revitalization" for this very reason because there was always so much chatter out in the community about crime associated with the mall and we wanted to change public perception by presenting the facts about crime in the area. We also wanted to create a forum to explain exactly what's taking place at the mall because we've found that most don't understand the current situation with the mall's ownership and the fact that it's bank owned after the bank foreclosed on the property and then bought it at public auction for $65 million, which is actually a great thing to have happened because after decades it finally got it out of the hands of the longtime owner who never did anything to it. Now a savvy developer finally has the chance to come in, purchase it and recognize it's tremendous potential.

We actually started looking at the crime statistics for Citadel Mall, the West Ashley area as a whole, and then other major shopping complexes throughout the tri-county and ironically, with so much negative community perception regarding crime at Citadel Mall, the mall actually had one of the lowest reports of incidents of any shopping area in Charleston. In researching the reasons why people had this perception of crime at the mall, we found that the media was doing an outstanding job of routinely and repetitively throwing in the name "Citadel Mall" in every news story they did regarding crimes taking place in other areas of West Ashley. Mind you none of these crimes took place inside the mall, in the mall parking lot or on any part of the mall property; however the news media always referenced Citadel Mall in their stories and used it as a reference point.

If you Google past news stories online, you'll see mention of crimes taking place inside Orleans Woods (the neighborhood across from the mall) and instead of reporting that the crime took place on Hazelwood Drive in the Orleans Woods neighborhood, the print and television reports would always state "a shooting took place on Hazelwood Drive near Citadel Mall." Of course what does anyone listening to/reading the news hear/see and remember? A shooting. And Citadel Mall. Even though nothing occurred in the mall, outside the mall or on the mall property, the public perception is oh, there was a shooting at (or near) Citadel Mall. In many of those instances, the crime being reported in the media wasn't even on the Orleans Road side of Orleans Woods nearest the mall. It was on the Ashley River Road side closer to West Ashley Crab Shack and Southeastern Galleries, yet Citadel Mall's name was thrown into the story as a geographical reference point.

We began to notice that this sort of thing was happening repeatedly, so we contacted all of the local television stations and newspapers and explained to them what they were inadvertently doing by using the mall as a geographical reference point in their stories of crimes taking place elsewhere. We stressed the fact that they were hurting the reputation of a mall in their own community, one that we all want to see thrive. I believe for the most part that they "got it" because it seems in recent months when something has happened in the area, they've not used the mall's name in conjunction with their story.

I subscribe to regular email updates from the "Spotcrime" website of incidents of reported crime in the 29407 & 29414 zip codes (West Ashley) and the about the only sorts of crime that I've noticed at the mall this year have been involving a shoplifter being arrested. Yes, there have been instances in past years that have taken place at the mall but again, in looking at the statistics I'd hold onto my purse a little more tightly at some of the other complexes and shopping areas of the tri-county region, including King Street and Mt. Pleasant Towne Centre (which may shock quite a few people to know). Citadel Mall isn't the bad place to be afraid of.

One of the first things that the bank did when they assumed ownership was to bring in Spinoso Real Estate Group of N. Syracuse, NY to manage the property, and one of the first things that they did was hire an outside security force from Allied Barton security to patrol the mall both inside and out, with multiple security officers both uniformed and in plain clothes. I don't think it dawns on most people that the majority of the regions shopping complexes don't even have security. Every time I've been to Citadel Mall this year, I've been very pleased to see numerous members of the security force actively patrolling both inside and out.

The other hurdle that we've tackled as I mentioned, is trying to educate the public why major changes aren't taking place at the mall right now. Many don't understand that its bank owned and banks aren't in the business of running malls, thus the bank isn't going to come in and dump a load of cash into the property to do a major renovation. They want the money back that they loaned to the former owner. Spinoso is known as a leading "expert" in repositioning distressed malls and turning them around and so far they've done an excellent job at Citadel Mall with limited monetary resources. Another very good thing about Spinoso is that they hired local people from OUR area to work for them in managing and marketing the mall. Finally we have people at the mall who have a vested personal interest in seeing it change for the better, and people who understand our community. We never had that under the former owners. We had people sitting in Chattanooga, TN with no conception of our local market, nor any desire to invest in the mall's future.

The team at Spinoso is promoting the mall more now than it's ever been promoted in the last 20 years and their efforts are paying off with increased shopper traffic. I spoke to one business owner who also has a Northwoods location and she told me that her Citadel Mall store wildly outperforms her Northwoods location by a great margin. That really surprised me. She said she feels like it's because the location of Citadel Mall is superior and she also has more loyal, repeat customers visit her Citadel store. Spinoso has also done a wonderful job convincing the bank to invest the monies for long overdue maintenance projects to make the mall more attractive to a potential buyer. Maintenance that may not be noticeable to the public has been ongoing behind the scenes with more to come. For example, I know that they've applied for permits with the City to put a new roof on the mall which will be an expense of over $1 million according to the documents online. There are also behind the scenes efforts to resurface the mall's perimeter road and parking lot which has been a huge undertaking because the majority of the parking area and the road does not belong to the mall. The individual department stores own the parking areas around their stores and their ownership rights extend out into the perimeter road.

The mall only owns the tiny portions of the parking lot outside the Food Court entrance and also outside the Southeast Entrance (adjacent to Planet Fitness). Can you imagine how difficult it would be to coordinate a project of this magnitude among Sears, JCPenney, Belk, Target & Dillard's and get everyone to agree? Especially given that Sears & JCPenney haven't been in the best financial shape in recent months. At least the new management group has things like this on their radar and they are working to try to get issues like these improved. I applaud them for being able to squeeze monies out of the bank and convince them of the need to take care of these repairs in the interim while the mall is for sale.

These are the sorts of things we're trying to communicate to the public to turn community perception from one of complaining about the mall to one of being more publicly supportive of the mall's future, so that the comments in the media and out in the community aren't "that mall is ugly, why don't they do something to it?" The tide is turning and the public is starting to realize that finally, the mall has a chance for a smart company/developer to realize that it's one of the best opportunities in the southeast with much potential. We are finding that once people understand the situation as to why the mall hasn't been transformed as yet and realize that the mall is indeed for sale - and that being for sale is a GOOD thing, they aren't so quick to talk about it in a negative light.

There aren't many "distressed" malls in this country that have all of their anchor spaces filled and have a relatively new 16-screen IMAX in the parking lot. The physical location is also excellent, adjacent to I-526 and basically at the intersection of 2 major highways. The only problem with Citadel Mall is that it was virtually ignored by its longtime former owner without any improvements made to it other than one minor interior remodel in the early 1990s. They took out the huge mortgage on the mall, used the money on other properties that they owned and then intentionally walked away from the mall. They've been doing this same thing across the country with their other malls. We should have held a community party to celebrate that because now finally that mall has a chance to live and be something that the community wants and needs. With all of these hundreds of thousands of new homes popping up daily in West Ashley, a developer would be wise to snap up Citadel Mall and make it into a multi-purpose destination complex. I feel like we'll see something significant happen in 2016. The property itself is too valuable not to be purchased. I can't fathom it sitting long-term as is. Surely someone recognizes its huge potential.

My apologies for writing a book, but I wanted to explain the situation about the crime and the overall negative public perception and invite anyone interested to join our Facebook group that I mentioned above. We try to keep everyone updated on the behind the scenes "scoop" as much as possible and post about things we've been able to learn. Understandably we aren't able to dig into everything relating to the mall with negotiations with potential tenants and a new owner being pretty sensitive and kept confidential, but we are able to discover and confirm quite a bit of information that isn't publicly known by regularly researching online public filings. None of the moderators are associated in any way with the mall or has any personal gain in the matter. We're just longtime residents of West Ashley who wished that we had a thriving upscale shopping complex because we feel one is long overdue in West Ashley!

As for what we know is coming in 2016, trying to convince the anchors to work together to get the entire parking lot resurfaced is likely still ongoing. We may see more action on that after the holidays once the traffic slows. Then next will probably come the new roof and there is also a permit request with the city for solar panels on the roof, so the bank is at least trying to take care of their investment while its being marketed for sale. We'll keep digging and updating the Facebook group as we can learn more.
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:56 AM
 
Location: James Island, SC
3,856 posts, read 4,558,628 times
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Thank you for that very informative post! Here's a link to the FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Char...tsCitadelMall/

I've been waiting for news of something definite happening with the mall... it's a diamond waiting to be polished and when that happens it will be like fertilizer on West Ashley's bloom.
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Old 12-13-2015, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
12,742 posts, read 18,555,096 times
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That's why I have emailed newspapers and television newscasts about their loose use of place names to tell where something bad happened. Five Points in Columbia was a victim of this type of reporting because of drug-related crime occurring in a bad neighborhood that is outside of the area of what anyone things of as Five Points outside of a news story reported with lazy journalism. Like everywhere, Five Points, like Citadel Mall, is going to have bad things happen sometimes because of all the people who go there day in and day out, but news media make it worse by using the names of such places as reference points when something bad happens outside of what is commonly thought of as being a part of those places. The word "downtown" is another reference point word that sometimes causes a negative image of the downtown area of any given city when the bad thing that happened is outside the area of what is commonly thought of as the downtown.
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Old 12-13-2015, 01:36 PM
 
Location: TPA
6,476 posts, read 6,382,614 times
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I think they should bulldoze everything but the anchors, and fill it (and the vast swath of parking lot) up with freestanding and row stores like they did the Greenville Mall, turning it into Magnolia.

Do you think that could happen? Or are they going to leave the building up forever and just trying bring new stores back into the inside?
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