Resistance against "Yankees" (Charleston, Beaufort: rent, new home, universities)

[moneill]

I'm from the Great White North -- and it's not juswt a southern thing to have manners. I was taught to call older people Mrs...last name. It wasn't until the south where my kdis were taught the bad habit of calling my friends Miss (first name). What's even siller is that they then are encouraged to call the man -- Mr. (first name). So silly.

Good friends of the family were given the title of Aunt or Uncle, if the Mr. & Mrs. (last name) seemed to be too formal.

What kills me is at school -- all the teachers are Miss. I was always taught that if they wre married it was Mrs. and if they were single, Miss. Not here in the south. It's 'Miss' everything.

Whether or not my child answers with a Yes M'am is not as important as the fact that he answers looking at the person and answers with respect. Sticking a M'am or Sir at the end of an answer does not automatically make a child polite or respectful. It's more than just that.

Speaking of that -- I think it is insulting for my kids to answer Yes M'am to me. I'm their mother -- Yes Mom is much nicer and much more respectful of the role I play in their lives.

[flgrammie]

I agree about the "yes, ma'm" to Moms and Grandma's. My Granddaughter is being raised to say yes ma'm or yes sir to everyone, including me. I don't like it, it's too impersonal for a family member. That's just the way it is here.

[SCBeaches]

Originally Posted by moneill

I'm from the Great White North -- and it's not juswt a southern thing to have manners. I was taught to call older people Mrs...last name. It wasn't until the south where my kdis were taught the bad habit of calling my friends Miss (first name). What's even siller is that they then are encouraged to call the man -- Mr. (first name). So silly.

Good friends of the family were given the title of Aunt or Uncle, if the Mr. & Mrs. (last name) seemed to be too formal.

What kills me is at school -- all the teachers are Miss. I was always taught that if they wre married it was Mrs. and if they were single, Miss. Not here in the south. It's 'Miss' everything. I teach school here and our students refer to their teachers as "Mrs., Mr., or Miss (last name)", depending on gender and marital status. It has always been this way in all the schools that I know of.

Whether or not my child answers with a Yes M'am is not as important as the fact that he answers looking at the person and answers with respect. Sticking a M'am or Sir at the end of an answer does not automatically make a child polite or respectful. It's more than just that. This is the way we do things. Everyone is entitled to his/her own opnion.

Speaking of that -- I think it is insulting for my kids to answer Yes M'am to me. I'm their mother -- Yes Mom is much nicer and much more respectful of the role I play in their lives.

That's your perogative.

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by Rggr

The presence of the Klan and hate mongering groups in the South is very overplayed. If you were to move here, it's unlikely that you would ever see a klansman - I saw a couple on the news once when I was kid. Unfortunately, this is a stereotype that does exist and is generally not met with the correction that most stereotypes today receive.

The person in the 4x4 with the gunrack does draw a negative response frequently. However, the people that make that generalization are doing just what they blame the driver of the truck for doing, although the groups that have historically inappropriately used the flag have contributed to this. I know there are people that fit the stereotype, and that's a sad reality. I also know many that drive 4x4 trucks that meet the description offered that do not - in fact I don't know any that do.

The South does have a poor history regarding race relations, but many continue to view this as a southern problem while ignoring the same issue (both past and present) in their own communities.

The presence of the klan wearing the sheets might be overplayed(although it still exists in some places), but the idea of the KKK still in existance is still there. The old days klansmen wore the robes and hoods in public because it was considered acceptable in its time. Today, with all of the things the KKK has done in its time, only a fool, or someone gutsy, would wear the hood and robe in public. Nowadays people hide their hatred. You could go to the bank and meet a klansman and never know it. It COULD happen. Not saying it will, but most likely, if you meet someone who is in the KKK, you probably won't know. It is basically the difference between Hiram Revels and David Duke. The average kkk member isn't stupid enough to go and kill someone in their name or at all. Only someone gutsy would do that. That happened in the early 1980's in Mobile,AL when 2 klansmen murdered and African-American youth and hung him from a tree. What happened? Those men were put in prison for life(one of them has since been executed) and the UKA went bankrupt from a lawsuit thanks to Morris Dees.

As for the 4 by 4 and gun rack, those things scare me. I can understand why it would scare people because when I see it, I think " I hope this guy isn't a criminal or something". It's engrained in one's mind to think like this sadly.

Poor race relations isn't just a southern issue. It's a national issue.

[SCBeaches]

[quote=pirate_lafitte;4486281]The presence of the klan wearing the sheets might be overplayed(although it still exists in some places), but the idea of the KKK still in existance is still there. The old days klansmen wore the robes and hoods in public because it was considered acceptable in its time. Today, with all of the things the KKK has done in its time, only a fool, or someone gutsy, would wear the hood and robe in public. Nowadays people hide their hatred. You could go to the bank and meet a klansman and never know it. It COULD happen. Not saying it will, but most likely, if you meet someone who is in the KKK, you probably won't know. It is basically the difference between Hiram Revels and David Duke. The average kkk member isn't stupid enough to go and kill someone in their name or at all. Only someone gutsy would do that. That happened in the early 1980's in Mobile,AL when 2 klansmen murdered and African-American youth and hung him from a tree. What happened? Those men were put in prison for life(one of them has since been executed) and the UKA went bankrupt from a lawsuit thanks to Morris Dees.

As for the 4 by 4 and gun rack, those things scare me. I can understand why it would scare people because when I see it, I think " I hope this guy isn't a criminal or something". It's engrained in one's mind to think like this sadly.

Poor race relations isn't just a southern issue. It's a national issue.[/QUOTE]
So very true!

[Geechie North]

Forgive the intrusion, as I am a native Charlestonian-from one of the really "old" families. Although I no longer live there, and have not for 25 years, I do go "home" (guess it still is, sort of) every year and am intrigued by the question of native v outsider, and therefore would like to add my 2-cents.
Everywhere changes: I can imagine a Stono or Yamassee going back (however unlikely) to the Charlestown of 1720 and complaining of the change, or even a Charlestonian of 1880 time-traveling to the Charleston I knew (1950-1990 version) and having similiar problems. However, I do feel that the change of the present Charleston (1990-present) has been so fundamental as to be the most overwhelming since the English hit the joint in 1670.
Any place is defined mainly by its climate, terrain, and culture. In the Lowcountry's case the terrain is the same, give or take, and Global Warming is changing climates around the globe. But what makes the Charleston of 1700-1990 so fundamentally different than today's is an irreperable change in culture.
See, Charleston human element, and uniqueness, was a result of the rice cultivation. The swath of coast from roughly Wilmington, NC to N. Fla. was so defined; it was a fusion of English and Scots peasant culture along with the majoritarian African population.
Although a slave population, these West African desendents set the culture to which the Europeans responded. So deep was their imprint that this was true even after African-Americans became the minority for the first time in the early 1900's. This persisted fairly oblivious to the outside realities until the overwhelming influx of outsiders commencing around 1970.
Please do not misunderstand this as simply nostalgia on my part. This old culture had very deep flaws: it was fundamentally and overtly rascist. The Citadel, for example, was established to allay white fears after the sucessful revolt in Haiti, and the abortive Denmark Vesey coup. It was also very violent, and oligarchial and elitist in orientation. These basic conditions have jumped the cultural change, to a remarkable degree, so that the new Charleston culture has managed to perserve the very worst of the old Charleston culture.
What do I mean? Well, South Carolina leads the nation (2007 FBI Stats) in violent crime; N. Chas is the 7th most violent city in the US. There have been some slight improvements in race relations, I'll give you that, and nowhere (not even Brazil) is 100% immune from that pathology. However, the new face of racism is gentrification-which relies on the old mechanism of "Heirs land" to displace black folks from the coast to the far less desirable (by new arrivals) Inner Coastal Plain.
Last trip there (2005, I visited with the black branch of my ostensibly white family (yes, most if not all old white Charleston families have black kinfolk. If not, then why else did the old "Kraft Paper Society" have so much influence in the old Charleston?) Talking with a cousin (3rd, I believe) next to his boiled peanut stand he said that we should move on back as, "Your people are down here."Sadly, I reminded him that our people had been pushed by unscrupilious development to the upper confines of Charleston County, and that I noticed that developershad now set their sights on the last major undeveloped stretch of coast north of Awendaw. So that he'd probably be forced to somewhere like Bamberg or the like where condos were not yet king. He shook his head in agreemnent.
As far as oligarchical elitism, look at the difficulities newcomers have in registering to vote (time-frames, etc.). "South Carolina wants to know who is gonna showup to vote and why."- none less than Fritz Hollings told me that circa 1978.
Anyway, that's my take. Sorry I was so longwinded, but this subject is one near and dear to me.

[tennreb]

Paul Harvey, discussing the virtues of the state of Mississippi, once said, "If people knew the truth about Mississippi, the Yankees would show up and ruin it." Well, they found out the truth about South Carolina, and they are showing up and ruining it.

[yankeechowderlip]

Originally Posted by tennreb

Paul Harvey, discussing the virtues of the state of Mississippi, once said, "If people knew the truth about Mississippi, the Yankees would show up and ruin it." Well, they found out the truth about South Carolina, and they are showing up and ruining it.

theyve already ruined it . gobacktoohio.com

[staywarm2]

Originally Posted by moneill

I'm from the Great White North -- and it's not juswt a southern thing to have manners. I was taught to call older people Mrs...last name. It wasn't until the south where my kdis were taught the bad habit of calling my friends Miss (first name). What's even siller is that they then are encouraged to call the man -- Mr. (first name). So silly.

Good friends of the family were given the title of Aunt or Uncle, if the Mr. & Mrs. (last name) seemed to be too formal.

What kills me is at school -- all the teachers are Miss. I was always taught that if they wre married it was Mrs. and if they were single, Miss. Not here in the south. It's 'Miss' everything.

Whether or not my child answers with a Yes M'am is not as important as the fact that he answers looking at the person and answers with respect. Sticking a M'am or Sir at the end of an answer does not automatically make a child polite or respectful. It's more than just that.

You're not assimilating! Try to keep an open mind. I moved here from KY where we didn't call anyone Miss... But here in Atlanta I kind of like it. It's personal and friendly but still respectful.

[moneill]

Oh I have a way open mind. My point was not that life in the south wasn't that much different than in the north...except for the fact that everything negative is blamed on Yankees <G>. My point was that even up north manners are taught to some folks. It is no longer just a southern commodity <G>.