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It should be against the Law for you to use those words in a sentence. They are offending. The word "Black" should be removed form the dictionary and replaced by "dark." Also, the words "Confederate" and all History of slavery should be removed from the History books, since that's all "offensive" too. We can refer to the Civil War period, as the "Period not to be mentioned."
Then racism will have been wiped off the map.
You have all these suggestions based on what? so non-sequitur and creepy. What are you even talking about?
"Hey, maybe they should replace cat with bat in the dictionary and that will end racism." See how dumb that sounds.
For those throwing sarcastic remarks about ending all racism, mocking your fellow citizens, and your lack of maturity and lack of confidence to make a real argument is what creates tension in the south.
"Pulling down the confederate flag ending racism" is a simple hyperbole you created so you with simple minds could handle an otherwise complex argument.
Most of the stupid comments on here could be avoided if people actually understood the concept of "speculation".
For those throwing sarcastic remarks about ending all racism, mocking your fellow citizens, and your lack of maturity and lack of confidence to make a real argument is what creates tension in the south.
"Pulling down the confederate flag ending racism" is a simple hyperbole you created so you with simple minds could handle an otherwise complex argument.
Most of the stupid comments on here could be avoided if people actually understood the concept of "speculation".
Indeed. And anyway, regardless of any cynicism that racism will end if the flag comes down (which clearly will not happen), not supporting this symbolic act is just wrong. Arguing against it just makes you look like an insensitive fool.
It should be against the Law for you to use those words in a sentence. They are offending. The word "Black" should be removed form the dictionary and replaced by "dark." Also, the words "Confederate" and all History of slavery should be removed from the History books, since that's all "offensive" too. We can refer to the Civil War period, as the "Period not to be mentioned."
Then racism will have been wiped off the map.
Classic reductio ad absurdum. Perhaps one of the worst fallacies and certainly one of the most laughable. This is not a crusade of political correctness but one of inclusiveness, especially when it comes to government property. If you don't recognize the difference between these symbols being displayed on state grounds and terms used in history books, there is no reason to even bother discussing this with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic
Your point is valid as to why the CSA battle flag was placed on state house grounds. As for your "supporting black slavery claim", how do you feel about the US flag?
The US had slaves too, and those slaves were not freed by the Emancipation Proclamation. Heck, Lincoln even "forgot" to free the slaves in DC that he passed by every day.
Again, trite argument.
First, the Confederacy was wholly committed to the institution of slavery. It was its raison d'être. Any discussion on state's rights should be taken to the logical conclusion of, "What rights, exactly?" If the secession of southern states were motivated by a broad philosophical support of state's rights, they surely would have put more emphasis on it than the specific issue of slavery in their ordinances of secession (which they didn't)
As for the United States, yes it had slaves, but it should be remembered that it was not a country founded for slavery nor is it singularly associated with slavery. And I really don't see individuals arguing Union forces in the war were some great liberating force severing the bonds of oppresion. Unlike the Confederacy, however, the United States as a government was attempting to move away from slavery long before the outbreak of the Civil War. Numerous states were abolishing the practice and numerous pieces of legislation were being proposed to limit slavery, however slowly. This is at least somewhat redemptive. While the nation was guilty of centuries of slavery, it was attempting to set right previously committed wrongs. As such the US flag has no business being compared to symbols of the Confederacy as regards slavery.
As for the Lincoln's supposed forgetfulness and the failure of the Emancipation Proclamation to free slaves in the Union: it was a case of short-term sacrifice for long-term success. Much like modern issues, one cannot simply take radical stands and hope to get them passed in a democratic legislature. There were political necessities that Lincoln was forced to contend with. A federally mandated outlawing of slavery in the Northern states would have gone a long way to alienating states like Kentucky, and would have put his long-term goals in jeopardy (primarily the reunification of the union.) Lincoln needed the border states, many of whom retained slavery. Characterizations of Lincoln as "The Man Who Freed the Slaves" is wrong, but he definitely wasn't a villain, and he was a driving political force behind gradual emancipation. His interactions with the likes of Frederick Douglass are well documented, as is his ideological transformation between election and assassination.
The latest polls indicate between 57-67% of the U.S. Population don't view the flag as racist. It's doesn't feel at all "inclusive and unifying" when elected officials claim it's racist which by association apparently means us as well.
The latest polls indicate between 57-67% of the U.S. Population don't view the flag as racist. It's doesn't feel at all "inclusive and unifying" when elected officials claim it's racist which by association apparently means us as well.
Argumentum ad populum. You decided to jump on the fallacy wagon too, I see.
A significant portion of the American citizenry is reminded of persecution by that flag: It was a flag used by a government founded for the preservation of slavery and in opposition to the United States of America. This being the case, and the fact that their right to happiness is every bit equal to yours, such a flag has no business flying on government grounds.
If you want to fly it outside of your home, fine, but there is absolutely no logical justification for flying that flag on state property.
Argumentum ad populum. You decided to jump on the fallacy wagon too, I see.
A significant portion of the American citizenry is reminded of persecution by that flag: It was a flag used by a government founded for the preservation of slavery and in opposition to the United States of America. This being the case, and the fact that their right to happiness is every bit equal to yours, such a flag has no business flying on government grounds.
If you want to fly it outside of your home, fine, but there is absolutely no logical justification for flying that flag on state property.
Fallacy Wagon? I'll be the judge of what my own opinions are thank you. If my elected officials want to run their mouth and call me a racist by association, I have the right not not feel " included and healed". The flag was put their via compromise. This is anything but compromise.
By your rationale why have the monument itself? Or statues of roads? Why not just dig up and remove cemetaries on state property? Or is that just the next step? I'm well aware of where the next step is headed now that I know how easy it is to label something offensive and order its removal.
Lincoln's emancipation proclamation was to free slaves in the states in rebellion only. This did not apply to West Virginia, Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, nor DC.
Very true. You can also add slaves owned by pro union indian factions to that list as well. In addition, Lincoln's fine print on the Proclamation was even finer....
Slave owners in union occupied portion of confederate states (which by 1963 included large parts of Tennessee and Arkansas, as well as portions of Lousiana) were also exempt the emancipation order if they were willing to take union loyalty oaths (however belated). Likewise, the Emancipation Proclamation did not free slaves in un occupied by CSA states if they were owned by absentee unions officers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxtheRoadWarrior
Unlike the Confederacy, however, the United States as a government was attempting to move away from slavery long before the outbreak of the Civil War. Numerous states were abolishing the practice and numerous pieces of legislation were being proposed to limit slavery, however slowly.
OH, IN, and IL were definetly moving away from slavery. They not only banned slavery (though IL had a few "grandfathered" exceptions), they also banned free blacks and escaped slaves from settling there. In short, they were both slave free and black free- which made them "unique".
That aside, I agree with your post. The fact that support for the CSA was lukewarm in Appalachia and the Bayous (where few were dependent on slave driven economies) demonstrates that the war was not totally about states rights. Though I am pro CSA as Lincoln's war was illegal (nothing in Constitution forbids secession), I reject both the "glorious lost cause" claims and the "glorious war of emancipation" claims.
so as of 4:01pm - no more crime because that evil flag will be coming down.........right???
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